At Epcot?You're a little but not totally off the mark, but I can't respond properly, because I'm hanging out here with family. I will get back to you though.
Has a party ever ran a new nominee against sitting Pres of their own party?
- Thread starter BrntOrngStmpeDe
- Start date
Felt the need to dust this one off....
Despite his pursuing many policies I favor, I'm incredibly disappointed in this dude. At one point, I made a remark on some thread that I was concerned about a Trump "win at all costs" mentality. I regard the Comey firing as just that.
Despite his pursuing many policies I favor, I'm incredibly disappointed in this dude. At one point, I made a remark on some thread that I was concerned about a Trump "win at all costs" mentality. I regard the Comey firing as just that.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I'm hoping Trump incinerates the Republican party and the Dems pull themselves apart opening up a viable 3rd party.
Brad Austin
2,500+ Posts
I don't see it. The advantage of running a sitting president is too strong to toss aside in hopes of riding a new horse to a consecutive GOP victory.
Trump already proved he can win. What are they gonna do, put up more retreads he already defeated in 2016? Yeah that's a good strategy to win a general. Replace your past winner with an also-ran.
By the time 3 years are up he'll have a long list of conservative lauded accomplishments they had no chance in hell of realizing without his victory. He'll also have a lot more financial power players backing him after making their business climate much easier.
Plus if the GOP spends a primary season viciously assaulting DT's record in office and he still wins, they'd greatly damage their chances of holding the office.
Trump will be the 2020 GOP candidate...book it.
Trump already proved he can win. What are they gonna do, put up more retreads he already defeated in 2016? Yeah that's a good strategy to win a general. Replace your past winner with an also-ran.
By the time 3 years are up he'll have a long list of conservative lauded accomplishments they had no chance in hell of realizing without his victory. He'll also have a lot more financial power players backing him after making their business climate much easier.
Plus if the GOP spends a primary season viciously assaulting DT's record in office and he still wins, they'd greatly damage their chances of holding the office.
Trump will be the 2020 GOP candidate...book it.
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I don't see it. The advantage of running a sitting president is too strong to toss aside in hopes of riding a new horse to a consecutive GOP victory.
Trump already proved he can win. What are they gonna do, put up more retreads he already defeated in 2016? Yeah that's a good strategy to win a general. Replace your past winner with an also-ran.
By the time 3 years are up he'll have a long list of conservative lauded accomplishments they had no chance in hell of realizing without his victory. He'll also have a lot more financial power players backing him after making their business climate much easier.
Plus if the GOP spends a primary season viciously assaulting DT's record in office and he still wins, they'd greatly damage their chances of holding the office.
Trump will be the 2020 GOP candidate...book it.
I'm not seeing all these "W's" in his future that you are. I see a lot of backtracking and claiming "that's what I wanted all along" type of "L/w's"... (losses that we'll sell as wins). You're probably right and he'll be the candidate because people will likely decide that an incumbent candidate is more important than a good candidate.
He won based on a group of claims around these four core concerns:
1- the wall
2- more jobs for middle America
3- conservative judges (but any GOP would have done that)
4- repeal ACA (but any GOP would have done that)
he delivered on #3, he'll whiff on #1 (although he's done a great deal), #2 and #4 will be the items that make or break him. I think #4 will of the L/w variety. They'll get something done, but it won't be that different and sure as heck won't be a fix to the healthcare/health insurance issue.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Has a party ever ran a new nominee against a sitting President of their own party?
The closest analogy I'm aware of was in 1968 when Johnson refused to be the nominee. Vice President Humphry was the nominee and was crushed by Nixon. Had Robert Kennedy not been assassinated the summer prior to the Democratic convention, he may very well have defeated Nixon.
The closest analogy I'm aware of was in 1968 when Johnson refused to be the nominee. Vice President Humphry was the nominee and was crushed by Nixon. Had Robert Kennedy not been assassinated the summer prior to the Democratic convention, he may very well have defeated Nixon.
Pat Buchanan ran against GHWB for the 1992 GOP Primary. He got routed but he did run.
Correct-a-mundo!
1-Building the wall will be underway. RFPs have already been requested.
2-If he can get the business tax lowered, this will easily fix itself
3-Already underway with the shining star on the SCOTUS
4-There is no fix to ACA. It was doomed from the beginning. You can't mess with a capitalist process using hoped for results and expect the process to improve for individuals. There will be improvement, however, because the Democrats left a turd in the punchbowl with ACA, and Trump will not make people drink the punch.
The Democrats will keep trying the same strategy:
-Divide based on income, race and gender
-Paint Trump as a baby killing pedophile worse than Hitler
-Tell everyone things like "school crossing guards can no longer be afforded due to Trump's economic plan"
-Make up ridiculous, indefensible claims using terms such as "trickle down", and attack Trump for that mythological idea
Brad Austin
2,500+ Posts
The "any conservative would've done that" statement doesn't fly in the least.
Did McCain do it after 2008? How about Romney after 2012? No they were steamrolled on the way to making Obama's Lib reign of terror a GOP nightmare.
Did any other GOP candidate prove they could've outlasted HRC and won the WH? No, only Trump will have made it possible to successfully install monumental GOP agenda items like Gorsuch and crucial reforms to healthcare, immigration, and tax reform.
By 2019, DT will be the only one who made the GOP agenda a reality in the WH in more than a decade. Even if they felt another Conservative could do a better job, the potential of a new horse costing the whole enchilada is too risky.
Trump is tied to the GOP agenda, like it or not. If the GOP projects he'll be rejected by the American people, his chosen replacement won't have the benefit of selling agenda change like 2016.
The smart play is to showcase the successes and hope enough Americans agree it was a solid enough improvement to their lives to tolerate any disapproval on a personal level.
A new GOP personality with similar policies won't be a highly motivating sales pitch against the Lib's newly energized base and platform promising to right any wrongs.
Did McCain do it after 2008? How about Romney after 2012? No they were steamrolled on the way to making Obama's Lib reign of terror a GOP nightmare.
Did any other GOP candidate prove they could've outlasted HRC and won the WH? No, only Trump will have made it possible to successfully install monumental GOP agenda items like Gorsuch and crucial reforms to healthcare, immigration, and tax reform.
By 2019, DT will be the only one who made the GOP agenda a reality in the WH in more than a decade. Even if they felt another Conservative could do a better job, the potential of a new horse costing the whole enchilada is too risky.
Trump is tied to the GOP agenda, like it or not. If the GOP projects he'll be rejected by the American people, his chosen replacement won't have the benefit of selling agenda change like 2016.
The smart play is to showcase the successes and hope enough Americans agree it was a solid enough improvement to their lives to tolerate any disapproval on a personal level.
A new GOP personality with similar policies won't be a highly motivating sales pitch against the Lib's newly energized base and platform promising to right any wrongs.
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Not sure I would count Pat as a good example...I do not recall him being pushed by the party. He was more like the annoying fly at a picnic that just wouldn't go away...
He certainly was not an establishment candidate but did get a reasonable percentage of the vote. It was a pretty bad omen for Bush.
I35
5,000+ Posts
It's really simple. It will be reality Trump policies vs a GOP candidate trying to muddy the waters. Then in the general election it would be Trumps policy success vs the smoke and mirrors the Dems and MSM will try to provide. It will be what America feels in their pocket book with action vs the words that the sky is falling for the Dems.
It's early, but Trump is going the right direction with our country so far only after 100 days.
It's early, but Trump is going the right direction with our country so far only after 100 days.
Felt the need to dust this one off. I agree with some of the actions that he has taken but IMO he is about the worst at being a political leader that I've seen in a while. He just absolutely can't get out of his own way. The 'bull in a china closet' routine is not working at all. We will be lucky if there isn't a Dem tidal wave in 2018. He has certainly motivated the left in a way that only a small number had done in the past. The left will be driven by absolute hatred next year and DT will be toxic to anyone in a remotely competitive race.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
The question will be can the Dems win with an "anyone but Trump" strategy? I'm not sure that's a winning strategy although it was effective for DJT and his "anyone but HRC" tactic.
I disagree. The left is MORE toxic in it's beliefs. I am saying now that I think the GOP will pick up seats in 2018. We will see who is right.
So, after I posted this, I found this article that aligns with my beliefs on why the GOP will pick up seats. It basically says the left may be winning the battles by shouting down their opponents but they will lose the war because so many Americans will hate the way they made their point:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...outers-win-town-hall-battles-but-lose-the-war
I just don't see how aligning yourself to people who block roads, burn things, and call anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi is going to win elections. In the past 8 years it has not.
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Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Rarely does a POTUS pick up seats for their party in a midterm. The R's have the advantage in that they've outfoxed the D's and gerrymandered the districts to lock in seats. Still, expect the House to move dangerously close to becoming D controlled. Senate is an uphill battle for the D's in 2018. The map isn't in their favor.
SC justice
Stock market
Jobs
Pulling out of Paris
Sanity at EPA
Illegal immigration down
Success against isis
Immigration ban
Start of wall construction
Tax reform (I hope)
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Reduced it to the items that Trump has had a direct role in and/or that weren't a continuation of the trend before he took office. The rest are "hopes". Giving credit where it's due.
Brad Austin
2,500+ Posts
Support isn't waning from those who put DT in office, at least not anywhere near alert levels where they'd even consider a Liberal alternative. 
As usual it's more MSM garbage trying to portray the ship is leaking to divide and conquer their opposition. Didn't work during the election, won't work now.
If anything the battle lines are drawn even deeper now. The Left and their propaganda pushing MSM believes they only declared all out war on DT and his administration.
They are sadly mistaken in ignoring most of those who voted for him feel like their own vote and voice have also been personally declared war upon.
You think we don't recognize the daily attempts to destroy, attack, purge, and silence non-left citizens?
Some DT voters may often disapprove of the way he handles his messaging, but most rarely disagree with his actions and policies. Which for the most part are succeeding.
At the end of the day they know beyond question the alternative and the modern left's anti-American policies can never be allowed to assume unobstructed control.
No chance we'll vote to join Europe on the path to slaughtering our way of life. Once the MSM and Hollywood starts hammering on the 2018 races, MAGA will circle the wagons.
As usual it's more MSM garbage trying to portray the ship is leaking to divide and conquer their opposition. Didn't work during the election, won't work now.
If anything the battle lines are drawn even deeper now. The Left and their propaganda pushing MSM believes they only declared all out war on DT and his administration.
They are sadly mistaken in ignoring most of those who voted for him feel like their own vote and voice have also been personally declared war upon.
You think we don't recognize the daily attempts to destroy, attack, purge, and silence non-left citizens?
Some DT voters may often disapprove of the way he handles his messaging, but most rarely disagree with his actions and policies. Which for the most part are succeeding.
At the end of the day they know beyond question the alternative and the modern left's anti-American policies can never be allowed to assume unobstructed control.
No chance we'll vote to join Europe on the path to slaughtering our way of life. Once the MSM and Hollywood starts hammering on the 2018 races, MAGA will circle the wagons.
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Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Not sure DJT need the MSM's help. His own words/actions seem to be doing the trick. Corporate CEOs abandoning his various councils aren't doing so because of MSM influence but rather his words are becoming toxic to be seen as associating to themselves. That's on Trump.
You might be right about his support being solid, although I suspect that many are like me and are reluctantly wiling to vote for him because he's not a Dem. Not sure I would count that as support.Support isn't waning from those who put DT in office, at least not anywhere near alert levels where they'd even consider a Liberal alternative.
As usual it's more MSM garbage trying to portray the ship is leaking to divide and conquer their opposition. Didn't work during the election, won't work now.
If anything the battle lines are drawn even deeper now. The Left and their propaganda pushing MSM believes they only declared all out war on DT and his administration.
They are sadly mistaken in ignoring most of those who voted for him feel like their own vote and voice have also been personally declared war upon.
You think we don't recognize the daily attempts to destroy, attack, purge, and silence non-left citizens?
Some DT voters may often disapprove of the way he handles his messaging, but most rarely disagree with his actions and policies. Which for the most part are succeeding.
At the end of the day they know beyond question the alternative and the modern left's anti-American policies can never be allowed to assume unobstructed control.
No chance we'll vote to join Europe on the path to slaughtering our way of life. Once the MSM and Hollywood starts hammering on the 2018 races, MAGA will circle the wagons.
I think the greater concern is that the next Dem may not be as bad as HRC and may not be as objectionable as many found her. If the Dem's run a moderate this time around, they could garner more of the middle and there will almost assuredly be an up-swell of anti-DT voters. He didn't win by a landslide. It will only take a little bit to swing the other way.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I was talking about this yesterday with a co-worker who is involved in local Democratic Party leadership. My suggestion that they recruit a moderate as an anti-Trump was met with guffaw. If the Dems misread the tea leaves and go more extreme than they'll likely lose dependent on the to volume anti-Trump sentiment come election time.
Dems going to run a leftist to such a degree that Dems will stay home and Trump will win in 35-15 state landslide. If the economy keeps up, he will also get more minority voters who vote their pocketbooks.
That your suggestion was laughed down just shows how out of touch that party is with the reality of the EMPLOYED population (and the segments that are actually apt to turn out and vote). The masses are sick of the tax and spend, re-write history by pulling statues nonsense that the left continuously seems to want to try and shove down the collective throats of America.
And that's the problem. Their base is really pulling hard Left. I think the chances of a moderate getting the nomination are very slim.
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Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
That's my worry. If the Dem's run far to the left (call it Bernie left) then I think that opens the door for a middle of the road 3rd party. It can't be an existing 3rd party though because they are all typecasted. It needs to be a Ross Perot-like 3rd party. I'd vote for Kasich if he lead a ticket like that.
Causation is hard to nail down, but at least for general political discussion, you probably have to leave higher stock market on the list. Not so much what Trump did, but the market reacting positively to the rejection of Democrats.
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