Good job, Austin!

Pop is a deep state stooge. He has a false sense of patriotism. He has been against everything about Trump, even things he hasn't done or said. But he defends China or at least refuses to criticize China about anything. That is straight from the NSA/FBI/DOD swamp. It is what all those guys think.

He's done as a coach too. He took over when there was David Robinson, Sean Elliot, and Tim Duncan. He rode that train as long as it would go. Duncan is gone now so he should retire.
 
I don't support getting rid of police per se. I know police presence has an effect on some crime rates.

However, do we really think that continually adding $s to police departments and giving them more military grade weapons make us citizens more safe?

The need for society is security or protection. Police don't provide that really. They follow up after crimes have been committed. We need men in communities who are ready to protect their families and are organized together on some level to protect their neighborhoods. Farming out all of security to police leads to a lack of protection and then abuse of power by the police. Poor and ethnic neighborhoods see these bad effects first, but they inevitably spread to us all.
 
Certainly I agree with what your saying generally but considering what is going on now? Not sure you can hire enough police for a situation like we see with these riots. It needs a full blown militia to shut it down.
 
There are in some neighborhoods organizations of men, usually church groups, who try to keep at risk kids on the right path and there are others who are organized to protect .More all the time. But these are not paid people.

I am absolutely not for paying men full time for this.
 
Monahorns said:
However, do we really think that continually adding $s to police departments and giving them more military grade weapons make us citizens more safe?
Click to expand...

The answer is yes, but I think we as citizens should have equal access to those military grade weapons. Criminals have access to military grade weapons, why not us citizens?


Monahorns said:
The need for society is security or protection. Police don't provide that really. They follow up after crimes have been committed. We need men in communities who are ready to protect their families and are organized together on some level to protect their neighborhoods.
Click to expand...

Fully agree, but it would require some law reform, as the first kid that gets shot on accident will cause more 2A backlash.


Monahorns said:
Farming out all of security to police leads to a lack of protection and then abuse of power by the police. Poor and ethnic neighborhoods see these bad effects first, but they inevitably spread to us all.
Click to expand...

I think it comes down to a combination of these things. My subdivision has controlled gated access, it also has a vacant guard house. I'm willing to pay more for our HOA if they provide a couple of guards on in the guard house controlling access and one driving around the neighborhood. It wont happen but if we had a budget cut here in San Antonio, I'd be all for more private protection.
 
Monahorns said:
I don't support getting rid of police per se. I know police presence has an effect on some crime rates.

However, do we really think that continually adding $s to police departments and giving them more military grade weapons make us citizens more safe?

The need for society is security or protection. Police don't provide that really. They follow up after crimes have been committed. We need men in communities who are ready to protect their families and are organized together on some level to protect their neighborhoods. Farming out all of security to police leads to a lack of protection and then abuse of power by the police. Poor and ethnic neighborhoods see these bad effects first, but they inevitably spread to us all.
Click to expand...
There was an incident just the other day that perfectly illustrated why agencies NEED some of those militarized vehicles. Idiot with a rifle and some others in the street successfully forced the vehicle to stop. Armored carrier was the vehicle in question- after a few moments, up comes the top hatch and out came the gas canisters.

I'm not going to begrudge agencies vehicles that allow them to perform their task when the municipal leaders won't properly empower the agencies to clear the streets with other methods.
 
mb227 said:
There was an incident just the other day that perfectly illustrated why agencies NEED some of those militarized vehicles. Idiot with a rifle and some others in the street successfully forced the vehicle to stop. Armored carrier was the vehicle in question- after a few moments, up comes the top hatch and out came the gas canisters.

I'm not going to begrudge agencies vehicles that allow them to perform their task when the municipal leaders won't properly empower the agencies to clear the streets with other methods.
Click to expand...
They do need to have these, but their use needs to be restrained. I'm not a fan of "no-knock" raids/warrants in most cases. The LEOs have the time advantage, they should use it in most cases. If "no knock" is deemed necessary, it should have to go through a enhanced process. It already is scrutinized, but it should be even further.

Of all the cases BLM holds up as examples of bad policing, the Breonna T. is one that I do have a problem with. No Knock is a very risky action for everyone involved. This should be an absolute last resort. I'm also an advocate for not letting LEO's go to combat fatigues/camo and other mil-gear. I do think that there is a place for it among SWAT in unique situations, but cops don't need to roll into most situations like Seal Team 6.

If you roll into my house at 4am, kicking in my door and tossing flashbangs. I'm shooting first and asking questions later. It is a situation inherent with risk and ripe for miscalculation.
 
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The answer is yes, but I think we as citizens should have equal access to those military grade weapons. Criminals have access to military grade weapons, why not us citizens?
Click to expand...

I agree on the freedom aspect. However, criminals don't have access to the US military resources like city police do. There are literally government programs where the US army and marines send their equipment over to police departments. It makes us all less safe in general.

I think it comes down to a combination of these things. My subdivision has controlled gated access, it also has a vacant guard house. I'm willing to pay more for our HOA if they provide a couple of guards on in the guard house controlling access and one driving around the neighborhood. It wont happen but if we had a budget cut here in San Antonio, I'd be all for more private protection.
Click to expand...

I agree with all this, and it is why I am NOT in favor of giving more $ to police and why reducing $ to them can be a good thing for citizens. We need less government that includes policing budgets. Two guards actively securing your subdivision is better than no one and calling the police once it is already too late.
 
There was an incident just the other day that perfectly illustrated why agencies NEED some of those militarized vehicles. Idiot with a rifle and some others in the street successfully forced the vehicle to stop. Armored carrier was the vehicle in question- after a few moments, up comes the top hatch and out came the gas canisters.

I'm not going to begrudge agencies vehicles that allow them to perform their task when the municipal leaders won't properly empower the agencies to clear the streets with other methods.
Click to expand...

The issue is that these military resources are used more often against citizens for questionable reasons than the example you give.

The answer is to rethink protection and security so that we can do it in a way that reduces cost and won't be used against us.

Begging for police to be more like the military means we are more like Iraq than the US.
 
I am an old white guy and got stopped for no reason many times when I was young. Got beat up once for putting my hands down after a frisk. Hated cops for years until I did a few ride alongs in my thirties. I see why some people feel they are targeted by cops. They are. But cops are scared too so they act super defensive at times. I like for cops to patrol my area.
 
Mona
There is no comparison between Iraq and how the citizens there are treated and how citizens here are treated by our police.
 
Criminals are targeted by cops. I find that I have never been targeted by nor beaten ups by any cops. I am not a criminal and I wouldn't do something stupid during a traffic stop. Oh, I guess speeding or any other traffic violation may deem me to be a criminal by some. Okay.
 
Cops don't just shoot criminals though that is the problem.

Many cops are criminals themselves too for drugs, rape, physical abuse, etc.

Qualified immunity means very often criminal cops aren't held responsible for their crimes.

There needs to be serious reform.
 
BOSDe and Monahorns are correct. There is a merited case for reducing police power in terms of methods, accountability (or lack thereof), and weaponry. However, this is reform, not defunding. The current leftist agenda is pushing for something else and forcing a baseless racial narrative and element into it.

We're also seeing an utterly moronic method. If you want to get people to support scaling back the police, having bands of marauding thugs beat people up and destroy property isn't the way to do it. Just from a logical standpoint, it's the last thing you should do. It's like showing scenes from 1985 Ethiopia and using it to argue how bad the obesity problem is.
 
Mr. Deez said:
BOSDe and Monahorns are correct. There is a merited case for reducing police power in terms of methods, accountability (or lack thereof), and weaponry. However, this is reform, not defunding. The current leftist agenda is pushing for something else and forcing a baseless racial narrative and element into it.

We're also seeing an utterly moronic method. If you want to get people to support scaling back the police, having bands of marauding thugs beat people up and destroy property isn't the way to do it. Just from a logical standpoint, it's the last thing you should do. It's like showing scenes from 1985 Ethiopia and using it to argue how bad the obesity problem is.
Click to expand...
Every profession could be improved. The legal profession is near the top of the list.

If you really want to reform something that would result in the greatest improvement to the Country, reform black culture.
 
mb227 said:
There was an incident just the other day that perfectly illustrated why agencies NEED some of those militarized vehicles. Idiot with a rifle and some others in the street successfully forced the vehicle to stop. Armored carrier was the vehicle in question- after a few moments, up comes the top hatch and out came the gas canisters.

I'm not going to begrudge agencies vehicles that allow them to perform their task when the municipal leaders won't properly empower the agencies to clear the streets with other methods.
Click to expand...
BULL....they are POLICE they are not in Baghdad!!! As someone who pulled 3 tours in Iraq it pisses me off to see cops looking and acting like the military. One of the problems with cops doing that is that many cops are veterans and they still get a hardon playing dress up. Just because they took off one uniform and put on another its not the same uniform. The police are professionals and can do a great job protecting us without rolling down the streets of any of our cities like they are the 10th Mountain Div. My son-in-law is a cop (never served in the military) and thinks that its too much also.
The loophole with the Pentagon and local police departments needs to be closed. Period.
 
You didn’t address the specific example given. Give examples of why it is too much. I can show a few that illustrate the equipment is not too much.
 
iatrogenic said:
You didn’t address the specific example given. Give examples of why it is too much. I can show a few that illustrate the equipment is not too much.
Click to expand...
The argument here is not a case by case situation. It is whether should the police have the military equipment at all. NO they should not. Again, they are the POLICE. NOT the Dept of Defense.
 
WillUSAF said:
The argument here is not a case by case situation. It is whether should the police have the military equipment at all. NO they should not. Again, they are the POLICE. NOT the Dept of Defense.
Click to expand...
That answer is known as "question begging" because you just repeat the same thing.

We know they are the police and not the military. The military carries pistols and rifles, so the police should not have pistols and rifles?

The question is "why shouldn't they have military grade equipment?"
 
WillUSAF said:
The argument here is not a case by case situation. It is whether should the police have the military equipment at all. NO they should not. Again, they are the POLICE. NOT the Dept of Defense.
Click to expand...
The problem is that part of America thinks that the "TV cop" is the way things play out. They think that cops are some how super human and have this super ability to control their own fight or flight response in the face of an attacker. Big clue...they don't. Despite wearing a gun, body armor etc, these folks have the same basic response to a fight and/or deadly situation as the rest of us. You zero in on the 6 feet in front of you and whatever the perceived threat is and you react. That's it.

"Why didn't you just wound him?" ..."Why didn't you try to talk to him more while he was pointing a gun at you, he hadn't shot at you yet?"

This is BS thinking based on TV drama that doesn't really happen. A cops adrenaline goes through the roof just like the rest of us when we are threatened. If you act like a threat, you're going to get treated like a threat.
 
iatrogenic said:
Every profession could be improved. The legal profession is near the top of the list.
Click to expand...

It's not the actual profession that should be reformed. Obviously there are exceptions, but the officers themselves are generally conscientious professionals trying to do a good job. However, there's room for improvement in the broader system in which we make them work.

iatrogenic said:
If you really want to reform something that would result in the greatest improvement to the Country, reform black culture.
Click to expand...

I think it will reform if we incentivize reform. We need to celebrate the nuclear family more and encourage dads to love and marry the women they impregnate rather than encouraging the opposite.

White people could also clean our own culture up a little especially as it interacts with black culture. If a black girl becomes an elite concert violinist, a few will use her as a virtue signaling prop. However, are we going to spend much of our money on her work? No, we're going to pay money for our 14-year-old daughter to go to a concert and watch Cardi B dance half naked and rap about having her ******* eaten out. Well, that sends a terrible message to blacks.
 
Mr. Deez said:
It's not the actual profession that should be reformed. Obviously there are exceptions, but the officers themselves are generally conscientious professionals trying to do a good job. However, there's room for improvement in the broader system in which we make them work.



I think it will reform if we incentivize reform. We need to celebrate the nuclear family more and encourage dads to love and marry the women they impregnate rather than encouraging the opposite.

White people could also clean our own culture up a little especially as it interacts with black culture. If a black girl becomes an elite concert violinist, a few will use her as a virtue signaling prop. However, are we going to spend much of our money on her work? No, we're going to pay money for our 14-year-old daughter to go to a concert and watch Cardi B dance half naked and rap about having her ******* eaten out. Well, that sends a terrible message to blacks.
Click to expand...
People pay money to send 14 year old kids to that? No wonder the country is in the shape it's in.
 
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