Germany's Refugee Crises
- Thread starter Musburger1
- Start date
Clean
5,000+ Posts
Yes, what they're doing is suicidal for traditional German culture. What drives them to do it? Do they still have guilt over WWII / the holocaust? Why do globalists like Soros, who is Hungarian, want to open up EU borders and let it be overwhelmed with Third World Immigration? I don't get it.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
That guy is a real life Dr. Evil
Clean
5,000+ Posts
Yes, he is.
Soros seems to have political influence way beyond what you'd think $8 billion would buy. $8 billion is a lot of money, but our government blows through that in the blink of an eye. The left-wing groups Soros funds manage to stir up trouble everywhere from Ferguson, Mo. to the EU and every where in between. Where ever there's controversy you can bet one of his innocuous sounding groups is around.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Morrissey (the Smiths) interview with Die Spiegel-
On Merkel --
Brexit --
Merkel is “throwing away” the country’s culture.
“I want Germany to be German. I want France to be French."
“If you try to make everything multicultural, you will not have any culture in the end.
“All European countries have fought for their identity for many, many years. And now they just throw it away. I think that's sad."
“I want Germany to be German. I want France to be French."
“If you try to make everything multicultural, you will not have any culture in the end.
“All European countries have fought for their identity for many, many years. And now they just throw it away. I think that's sad."
On Merkel --
“Well, she's smart enough not to say much.
“She stays silent, which is very interesting.
“But I'm sad that Berlin has become the rape capital… because of the open borders.”
“She stays silent, which is very interesting.
“But I'm sad that Berlin has become the rape capital… because of the open borders.”
Brexit --
"The outcome of the Brexit referendum fascinates me because it was a victory for democracy.
“The people said yes.
“Whether or not to endorse Brexit is another matter, but I was very proud of the British."
“The people said yes.
“Whether or not to endorse Brexit is another matter, but I was very proud of the British."
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
The NYT cant discuss Merkel's problems without tossing is some gratuitous quotes somehow making it Trump's fault
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/world/europe/germany-merkel-coalition.html
“The unthinkable has happened,” said Christiane Hoffmann, deputy head of the Berlin bureau of Der Spiegel, a German magazine. In that sense, she said, “This is Germany’s Brexit moment, its Trump moment.
* * *
“Germany is not leaving the EU and it did not elect Donald Trump,” said Mr. Kleine-Brockhoff. “It was unable to form a government on its first attempt. That’s bad. It causes instability. But it’s not the end of the world.”
* * *
“Germany is not leaving the EU and it did not elect Donald Trump,” said Mr. Kleine-Brockhoff. “It was unable to form a government on its first attempt. That’s bad. It causes instability. But it’s not the end of the world.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/world/europe/germany-merkel-coalition.html
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
NYT or "Berlin bureau of Der Spiegel"? It was a quote.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
I don't see any ethnic boobs in that postcard. Clearly the German multicultural efforts have been vastly overplayed. Open those borders...
Come visit Germany while this is still applicable. Saw it on a postcard today.
50 years from now that German postcard will have women dressed according to Islamic dress codes with a heart on there saying "Death to the infidels".
50 years from now that German postcard will have women dressed according to Islamic dress codes with a heart on there saying "Death to the infidels".
If a society stops reproducing it will go away. Immigration can keep its population numbers from dropping, but its society and culture will die. That's happening in Germany and many other parts of Europe.
Clean
5,000+ Posts
It's official. The EU surrenders. They're begging for the Third World to over run them. George Soros must be happy as a clam.
The EU Commissioner for Migration declares that "neither walls nor policies" can stop migration.
EU President says; "Without Millions of African Migrants, Europe Will Be Lost".
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12/18/eu-white-mass-migration-norm/
The EU Commissioner for Migration declares that "neither walls nor policies" can stop migration.
EU President says; "Without Millions of African Migrants, Europe Will Be Lost".
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12/18/eu-white-mass-migration-norm/
The Breitbart people did make the article sound more inflammatory than it was. Nevertheless, the general point was pretty much accurate. This kind of tactic-that certain assumptions have to be accepted as fact by the Right before any kind of discussion can be had-is how you get Trump (or in the case of Europe, UKIP, AfD, Front National, etc.).
Having said that, there is one facet of the open borders crowd's view that has merit, and that's is Europe's population decline and the long term impact it will have on their economy. The Right needs an answer for that, and so far, I haven't heard one.
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Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
Why must The Right come up with a solution for self-inflicted wounds that are predominantly from The Left?
Well, it's primarily a self-inflicted wound made by the aggregate decisions of hundreds of millions of people. They've decided that living for themselves is more important than having a family and that there's no value in perpetuating one's culture. I can see why one might blame the Left for people believing this, but regardless of who's mostly responsible for the problem, the problem is real and needs a solution.
Of course, the Left (with the help of the business community) has an answer, which is to import large numbers of migrants from the Middle East and Africa. The business community gets a massive influx of cheap labor. European labor is very expensive. There's a reason why I had to pay Germans €500 (about $600) a couple of years ago to do yard work that Mexicans would have happily done in the US for $75 and a case of Keystone Light.
The political Left gets an influx of people who are broke-*** poor (and therefore more receptive to socialism), black or Middle Eastern (and therefore more receptive to racial and ethnic identity politics without guilt so they can be easily distracted from other issues), and Islamic (and therefore hostile to the Christian foundation of Westernized Europe).
If the Right doesn't have an answer, then people will turn to the Left's position by default. Even if they don't, the problem won't get solved, which means a much smaller labor force, inflation (or massive economic contraction), and fiscal insolvency.
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Clean
5,000+ Posts
In the 1300s, Europe lost half its population to the Black Plague. If the people running Europe today were in power back then, we'd all be speaking Swahili and have year round tans.
I not an economist, but if you have less people, as Europe surely will have without mass migration, why do you need the same size economy as you did when you had more people? Why can't the economy scale back along with the population?
Because that would mean that the government also needs to get smaller, and the left is not down with that.
Clean
5,000+ Posts
Back in the seventies, a booked titled "Small Is Beautiful; Economics as If People Mattered" was a popular best seller. The premise of the book was just what the title said; smaller is better than larger when it comes to economics and government.
None other than a very young Gov. Jerry Brown of the Left Coast was so smitten with the book that he reportedly carried it with him everywhere. Kind of ironic that Gov. Moonbeam bears a lot of the responsibility for creating the economic nightmare that is the current California economy, isn't it?
None other than a very young Gov. Jerry Brown of the Left Coast was so smitten with the book that he reportedly carried it with him everywhere. Kind of ironic that Gov. Moonbeam bears a lot of the responsibility for creating the economic nightmare that is the current California economy, isn't it?
OK, bringing up the Black Plague isn't likely to win many Europeans to your side. That's like trying to sell nuclear power to people in Chernobyl. Emulating the impacts of the Black Plague are going to be viewed as a bad thing over here. Nevertheless, even the Black Plague didn't cause Europe to just accept economic contraction as a long term reality. They gradually brought their population levels back up and built economic powerhouses that dominated the world until the rise of the United States as a global power.
It's not that the European economies can't scale back. Of course they can, but why would they want them to? Most countries want their economies to grow. Yes, it's better for the government, but it's also better for the public. When the economy is growing, people are making money, jobs are more plentiful, etc.
The point is that "accept an aging and declining population coupled with a contracting economy" for the long term isn't a serious solution that's going to garner much support in Europe for the same reason it wouldn't in the United States. The Right needs to get more creative than that.
What Europe really needs is a renewed commitment to family. I think their governments need to incentivize having children, but that alone won't do it. Germany already has the so-called "kindergeld" program, which gives cash to families with children regardless of income, and that isn't solving the problem. They need a social and cultural reawakening in which people start to truly value family again, but I have no idea how to make that happen.
How do you get people to decide that the independence and lack of responsibility associated with being single isn't worth forgoing the lifetime companionship and personal reward that comes with being married and having children? I don't know, but the answer to that is going to determine whether or not European society as we know it lives or dies in the long term.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
That's a Westernization problem. Is there a modern-day example of a country that industrialized that isn't seeing a reducing population? Fewer children seems to be the one truism across cultures whether they be Western (EU or North America), Asia (Japan, China, etc.) or Russia (declining .5%/year).
This isn't simply a problem of reducing our government spend either as the populations are becoming inverted pyramids meaning more old people (the wonders of modern medicine) and less young people.
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You're correct. As countries industrialize and wealth grows, people stop having kids. If you look at the US, our population and birth rates are better than Europe's, but if you break it down, it's mostly because of Hispanics and other immigrant groups. In other words, it's poorer people. It's a shame, because it means that the people who can least afford to have kids are having them, and the people who can most afford to have them are not. I don't see how that could not lead to social problems beyond just a declining birth rate.
Like I said, I don't think money fixes the problem - certainly not by itself. From a financial standpoint, it's a lot easier to have a kid over here. Without regard to income, the government sends you a monthly check for each kid to help defray costs. (I don't get it, because I'm opt to pay US taxes rather than German.) Furthermore, there's a ton of paid parental leave when a baby is born. Even with that, people don't have many kids, because it's a matter of priorities. People just don't want to make the sacrifices of time, effort, and recreation that go with having kids. They value leisure time and relaxation more than they value the rewards that go with raising kids.
I can't think of an entire industrialized nation that doesn't do this, but I can think of a group within a nation that doesn't do this. Mormons don't do this, because their culture values family over just about everything. I'm not saying we all need to convert to Mormonism, but we could use some of their commitment to family.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
The church redistributes wealth from well off families to less well off families. That's clearly not the only reason for large families but there is a financial incentive for a large family in the Mormon church.
And that ladies and gentlemen is Bull S***! They do have a food storehouse and aid the poor but 'redistribution', uh no.
They help out like many churches do, but the German government is much more generous. I really think it's a matter different values more than it's money.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
Have more kids. Done.
As long Western civilization is determined to self-loathe and see its culture as inherently worthless, this is going to be an issue. Any attempt to change that will be seen as white nationalism, so I wouldn't hold your breath on that happening on a large scale.
Ultimately any discussion about this issue will be interpreted as "preserving the white race" and that has some pretty bad optics in the world at large. So I just don't see that getting Europeans to have kids for the sake of preserving culture is ever going to cascade from the top down.
My theory on this would be that as countries industrialize, they have higher expectations for health care and education, and the assumption that those children are going to be reared with a certain level of care. The more advanced we get, the higher that level is, and the more expensive it gets. And as you added, people are selfish. We want our vacations and our leisure, and kids cut into that - or they make it more expensive and more difficult to do.
Throw in the constant non-stop guilt over our "dangerously overpopulated world" and you get a western population that is basically on the downhill slide toward extinction.
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
They'll still tolerate it, but if it happens again at least the victims can go to the safe zone afterward.
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