Foreign Policy Discussion: Russia

Mr. Deez said:
.....Hell, they forced tens of millions of people out of Nazi rule but into communist dictatorships for 45 years for no reason other than the fact that they were unlucky enough to live in Eastern Europe.......
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Poor Poland - has there been a country with worse luck when it comes to geography?
 
Joe Fan said:
Poor Poland - has there been a country with worse luck when it comes to geography?
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None that I can think of. I'm no Trump worshipper, but his comments on Poland and the Polish people were spot on. The fact that they still exist as a country and a people is truly remarkable.
 
I think it is possible that the US could have beat Germany after Japan had been defeated. Once "we" would have been able to focus all of "our" attention on Europe I think it would have been a matter of time.
 
So this Russia embassy fire thing is pretty weird
This article says the embedded video shows them burning papers

Foreign Policy reported seeing staff "dumping what appeared to be paper into the fire." Earlier Friday, a woman climbed the building's back wall and used bolt cutters to remove security cameras.

The incidents come a day after President Trump ordered Russia minimize its diplomatic presence in the U.S. after Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the U.S. to reduce its diplomatic staff in Russia by 755 employees.

San Francisco's fire department received a call Friday afternoon about smoke coming from the roof of a building. Upon arriving at the Russian consulate, the first responders were turned away by Russian officials who said they were burning unspecified items in a fireplace.​

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...s-in-fire-behind-office-in-dc/article/2633259
 
Soon it will be crunch time in Syria. ISIS has nearly been defeated and its only a matter of time. Trump previously stated his only interest in Syria is defeating ISIS. That statement will soon be tested.

Two issues remain.

In Eastern Syria, Assad's army has almost liberated the last ISIS stronghold of Deir Ezzor. Meanwhile the Kurds have taken control of Syria's oil region with US backing. The Syrian army will soon cross the Euphrates and attempt to reclaim its land from the Kurds which previously had been controlled by ISIS. Assad, Russia, and Turkey have condemned the US for ignoring Syrian sovereinty and aiding the Kurds. Will Trump step back as his goal of defeating ISIS is obtained or will the US further escalate the situation and risk confrontation with Turkey and/or Russia?

In the South, Israel has threaten war against Syria and recently received a secret unannounced visit from the Saudi leader. Israel wants Iran completely out of Syria. Both Israel and the Saudis hope to influence the US to escalate here also. If Israel acts, will Trump drag the US into the mix?

This should begin to play out one way or another in the next several weeks or months.
 
Musburger1 said:
Assad, Russia, and Turkey have condemned the US for ignoring Syrian sovereinty and aiding the Kurds.
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Ignoring Syrian sovereignty? The same way Assad allowed ISIS to ignore Syrian sovereignty and amass an army of soldiers from surrounding countries?

The group of invaders that declared war on the U.S. and promotes attacks on our home soil and citizens.

We did what we had to do to combat the threat facing our country. And the Kurds were the only trustworthy, loyal partner to prop up.

F*ck Assad, Russia, Turkey, and Iran condemnations. Their little 4-way circle jerk is the real group with ulterior motives in Syria.

Israel knows this very well which is why they're dialed in, and rightfully so. An Iranian-run proxy right next door is a grave threat to their security.

Countless people who know DT intimately vow the man has no desire whatsoever to nation build. But one thing he values is loyalty. He will show loyalty to Israel and more importantly the Kurds.

It would be in Assad's best interests to peacefully negotiate the return of the Kurd controlled areas in exchange for a protected area of their own.

If the U.S. gets dragged into a confrontation it's because Assad's bunch tried to roughshod our ally who had the balls to rip away the land from the group that ripped it away from Assad's defeated forces.

If Assad's side isn't willing to negotiate a peaceful resolution that gives acceptable consideration to the Kurds, then come and take it.

The last thing the U.S. can afford is to turn tail and run leaving yet another M.E. ally who trusted us holding the business end of a shotgun.
 
Brad Austin said:
Ignoring Syrian sovereignty? The same way Assad allowed ISIS to ignore Syrian sovereignty and amass an army of soldiers from surrounding countries?

The group of invaders that declared war on the U.S. and promotes attacks on our home soil and citizens.

We did what we had to do to combat the threat facing our country. And the Kurds were the only trustworthy, loyal partner to prop up.

F*ck Assad, Russia, Turkey, and Iran condemnations. Their little 4-way circle jerk is the real group with ulterior motives in Syria.

Israel knows this very well which is why they're dialed in, and rightfully so. An Iranian-run proxy right next door is a grave threat to their security.

Countless people who know DT intimately vow the man has no desire whatsoever to nation build. But one thing he values is loyalty. He will show loyalty to Israel and more importantly the Kurds.

It would be in Assad's best interests to peacefully negotiate the return of the Kurd controlled areas in exchange for a protected area of their own.

If the U.S. gets dragged into a confrontation it's because Assad's bunch tried to roughshod our ally who had the balls to rip away the land from the group that ripped it away from Assad's defeated forces.

If Assad's side isn't willing to negotiate a peaceful resolution that gives acceptable consideration to the Kurds, then come and take it.

The last thing the U.S. can afford is to turn tail and run leaving yet another M.E. ally who trusted us holding the business end of a shotgun.
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Brad you actually seem to believe that nonsense you spouted. Assad didn't create ISIS and wreck Syria, the US created ISIS and encouraged them to invade Syria. Hell, John Kerry was taped admitting just that as well as a 2012 assessment that was made public.

By even having forces inside Syria the US is breaking international law. That's a fact. And with the defeat of ISIS there is absolutely no excuse for remaining. Talk about a double standard. The people of Crimea have no right to have a say in their own destiny via the vote and Russia is sanctioned for intervening, yet the US has the right to back terrorists and determine what boundaries are drawn where.
 
Yeah I get it, Assad is an innocent victim, Putin is a good samaritan, and everything sinister is the result of U.S. conspiracies.

Just like 9/11 was a false flag inside job. Bigfoot is the result of a rogue U.S. government genetic manipulation program gone wrong.

Keep throwing bs at the wall and hoping something sticks. Wasn't there supposed to be 150,000 U.S. troops pouring into Syria months ago?

Your go-to conspiracy sites burned DT in effigy for his impending massive troop surge that never even remotely happened.

Must feel special backing such good folks as Assad, Erdogan, Khamenei, and Putin. All the makings of a dictator fetish.
 
Careful Brad. He's got you on a few things. First, our involvement in Syria probably does violate international law, if you accept the UN charter as binding. We're not there out of self-defense, and the Security Council hasn't authorized our actions. It's a bit ironic that a guy who detests globalism would invoke the ultimate prerogative of globalists (international law), but that's another topic.

Second, Kerry did say some incriminating and stupid things that suggest that we leveraged ISIS to promote the overthrow of Assad. Assad's no Boy Scout, but the idea that his overthrow should be our top priority over all things was ridiculous. I'm not a kneejerk Obama hater like many here are, but his Syria policy was a mess and had terrible priorities. They really should be ashamed.

Third, though I think the situations are distinguishable, he has a point that we have a double standard in arguing that the Kurds have a right of self-determination but that the Crimeans do not. Of course, he presents the exact same double standard in reverse, so take that for what it's worth.

Having said that, the idea that we should just abandon the area and make no attempt to influence the resolution of the conflict is utterly absurd. Who the hell does that after spending money and blood in a war? In addition, we've been toying with the Kurds for 25 years. They've been a loyal US ally in the hopes that we would help them have a state. We fleeced them after the first Gulf War and again after the Iraq War. If we don't at least make an attempt this time, why would they play ball with us again? They'll more likely reach out to Russia (who will stay in Syria no matter what we do), who might grant them some token autonomy but no state in return for walking away from the West. That's what Musburger wants because it's good for Putin, Iran, and China, but it's not good for the West.
 
There's no doubt there are valid facts in Mus' arguments on the subject, not denying that. I'm definitely not defending the last administration's incompetence in Syria.

However, the can of worms has long been opened and dumped all over the Syrian landscape. Assad also bears much responsibility for our ongoing need to be there.

I find it ironic Assad would plead for international law to protect his sovereignty. Seems odd for a leader who's been deemed a war criminal to retain that right.

Though the truth behind the chemical attacks are far from conclusive to many of us, the international agencies tasked to investigate them concluded he was responsible.

"A UN commission probing Syria rights abuses has gathered enough evidence to convict President Bashar al-Assad of war crimes, an outgoing member of the commission said in interviews published Sunday.

Veteran former war crimes prosecutor Carla Del Ponte, who is preparing to step down after five years serving in the UN Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss media the evidence against Assad was sufficient to secure a war crimes conviction."

If we pull out of Syria and honor his sovereignty is he going to turn himself in to stand trial for those alleged war crimes?
 
Brad Austin said:
There's no doubt there are valid facts in Mus' arguments on the subject, not denying that. I'm definitely not defending the last administration's incompetence in Syria.

However, the can of worms has long been opened and dumped all over the Syrian landscape. Assad also bears much responsibility for our ongoing need to be there.

I find it ironic Assad would plead for international law to protect his sovereignty. Seems odd for a leader who's been deemed a war criminal to retain that right.

Though the truth behind the chemical attacks are far from conclusive to many of us, the international agencies tasked to investigate them concluded he was responsible.

"A UN commission probing Syria rights abuses has gathered enough evidence to convict President Bashar al-Assad of war crimes, an outgoing member of the commission said in interviews published Sunday.

Veteran former war crimes prosecutor Carla Del Ponte, who is preparing to step down after five years serving in the UN Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss media the evidence against Assad was sufficient to secure a war crimes conviction."

If we pull out of Syria and honor his sovereignty is he going to turn himself in to stand trial for those alleged war crimes?
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Don't even go there about war criminals. The victors define who is the war criminal and who is unaccountable. The Nazis committed atrocities and were hanged.

LBJ used chemicals and killed hundreds of thousands of Viet Namese but unless the US could be conquered, no American President could be charged with war a war crime; much less be convicted.

Saddam Hussein did horrible things. He was hanged. Clinton's sanctions and Bush's bombs killed hundreds of innocent Iraqis. And Iraq posed no threat to the US. Depleted uranium weapons are causing mutations in Fallujah and will continue to do so for centuries. Think Clinton or Bush will be charged with war crimes?

The US continues to supply and train the Saudis who with US support and approval continue to starve and slaughter civilians in Yemen. Both Obama and now Trump or complicit. Shut your yap about war crimes. The US leads the world in this category.
 
Syria update. It's about to get serious. Despite what Trump may want to happen, or what Trump has stated, he obviously has zero input on US policy as it pertains to Syria (or anywhere else).
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/0...ttacks-direct-coordination-with-al-qaeda.html
Excerpts from the linked article:

The situation in Syria is reaching another critical point. There is an increased possibility of a large scale clash between U.S. and Russian forces. We had warned of such a clash over control of the rich fields east of Deir Ezzor. At least three incidents over the last days point to more significant escalations.

  • On the 17th the U.S. accused Russia of a light air attack on its proxy forces north of Deir Ezzor. Russia denied that it had attacked those forces.
  • On the 18th and 19th large contingents of Russian and Syrian troops crossed the Euphrates at Deir Ezzor in east-Syria. The U.S. Kurdish/Arab proxy force in the area actively tried to hinder that movement.
  • In parallel a large al-Qaeda attack was launched in west-Syria. The Russian forces accuse U.S. intelligence services of having initiated that campaign. (The Syrian-Russian forces defeated the attack.)
  • Today the Russian military accused the U.S. Kurdish proxies near Deir Ezzor of firing artillery on its forces. It threatened massive retaliation.
The most dramatic incident was the al-Qaeda attack in Idleb.

said (vid with English subtitles) that, according to Russian intelligence reports, al-Qaeda's attack was made on behalf of the U.S. to slow down the Syrian-Russian campaign in the eastern province Deir Ezzor. A subtask for the terrorists was to capture a platoon of Russian soldiers. This is, to my knowledge, the first time that Russia made such a direct and extremely grave accusation against the U.S. forces and intelligence services in Syria.

From the Russian military statement:

For 24 hours, insurgents managed to dent the government troops’ defence line for up to 12 kilometers in depth and up to 20 kilometers in front.
According to the received data, this offensive was initiated by the US special agencies in order to stop successful advance of the Syrian Arab Army to the east from Deir ez-Zor.

Seizing of a unit of the Russian Military Police was one of the main aims of insurgents. The Russian MP unit was operating in an observation post deployed as de-escalation observation forces.

As a result, the MP platoon (29 persons) was blocked by insurgents.
...
The encirclement has been breached. Units of the Russian Armed Forces have reached locations of SAA without losses.

After the al-Qaeda attack was launched the Russian air force in Syria initiated a massive counter campaign over Idleb province.

For the last 24 hours, aviation and artillery units have eliminated 187 objects, 850 terrorists, 11 tanks, 4 IFVs, 46 pickups, 5 mortars, 20 trucks, and 38 ammunition storages.
Units of the 5th Airborne Assault Corpse launched a counter-attack and almost took [all] lost positions.

Pictures from the area showed several destroyed tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. This was a very costly campaign for al-Qaeda with no significant gain. It seems that Syrian and Russian intelligence were aware that an attack was coming and that the large aerial counter campaign caught al-Qaeda by surprise.

At the same time as the al-Qaeda attack in Idleb started U.S. proxy forces in east-Syria (yellow) took measures to hinder the fight of Syrian forces (red) against the Islamic State (black).

Soon after crossing the Euphrates Syrian troops came under fire from U.S. proxy positions:

"According to the reports that the Syrian commanders have been sending from the frontline, most serious counter-attacks and mass shelling on the Syrian troops come from the north," he said. "It is the area where units of the Syrian Democratic Forces, as well as the US special operations units, are deployed, who, according to CNN, are providing medical aid to these militants instead of participating in the operation to liberate Raqqa," [Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major General Igor] Konashenkov said.
The U.S. proxies also use their control of the Tabqa dam to hinder the river crossing:

Water discharges from the Euphrates dams controlled by the US-backed opposition hamper the advance of Syrian government troops near Deir ez-Zor, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Igor Konashenkov said on Tuesday.
"Thus, the water situation on the Euphrates has deteriorated dramatically in the past 24 hours. As soon as the Syrian government troops began to cross the river, water level in the Euphrates rose within hours and the current velocity nearly doubled to two meters per second," he said.

Today the Russian Defense Ministry accused the U.S. proxy forces of directly shelling its Syrian allies and the Russian forces accompanying them:

Russia warned a representative of the US command in Al Udeid, Qatar, that "any attempts of shelling from the areas where the militants of the Syrian Democratic Forces are based will be immediately curbed."
"Firing points in these areas will be immediately suppressed by all means of destruction," the general said.

Fighters of the Syrian Democratic Forces approaching Deir ez-Zor from the north are easily joining IS terrorists, and Russian drones and reconnaissance recorded no clash between the IS with a "third force," namely the SDF over the past week, he explained.

However, massive fire from mortars and rocket artillery was opened twice on the Syrian troops from the areas on the eastern shore of Euphrates where the SDF fighters and servicemen of US special forces are based, Konashenkov said.

The U.S. paid "Syrian Democratic Forces" that pushed into northern Deir Ezzor without meeting any resistance are mostly local tribes who were alignedwith the Islamic State until the U.S. diplomat Brett McGurk hired them to fight on the U.S. side. They are led by Kurdish commanders and "advised" by U.S. special forces.

The U.S. wants to keep Syrian government forces away from the oil fields north of the Euphrates. It has plans to build and control a Kurdish proto-state in north-east Syria and control over the eastern Deir Ezzor oil would give such a state the necessary economic base.

But the U.S. has too few proxy forces available to actually take the oil area away from the Islamic State. Only the Syrian army has enough resources in the area. The U.S. is now cheating, attacking Syrian-Russian forces, and rushing to get an advantage. According to the Russians the U.S. Kurdish proxies have even stopped the fight against ISIS in Raqqa and moved forces from that area to take the oil in the east. I doubt that Syria and Russia will allow that to happen without taking measures to counter it.

With the al-Qaeda diversion attack in north-west Syria defeated and more reserves available the Syrian alliance should think about a fast air-assault on the oil fields. As soon as the oil wells are under Syrian government control and the ISIS presence eliminated the U.S. has no more excuse to continue the current deadly game.
 
Here's ananalytical perspective on most recent happening in Syria.

http://thesaker.is/russian-special-...a-denounce-the-usa-and-issue-a-stark-warning/

Russian special forces repel a US-planned attack in Syria, denounce the USA and issue a stark warning
491 Views September 21, 2017 2 Comments
Something rather unprecedented just happened in Syria: US backed “good terrorist” forces attempted a surprise attack against Syrian government forces stationed to the north and northeast of the city of Hama. What makes this attack unique is that it took place inside a so-called “de-escalation zone” and that it appears that one of the key goals of the attack was to encircle in a pincer-movement and subsequently capture a platoon of Russian military police officers deployed to monitor and enforce the special status of this zone. The Russian military police forces, composed mainly of soldiers from the Caucasus region, fought against a much larger enemy force and had to call for assistance. For the first time, at least officially, Russian special operations forces were deployed to rescue and extract their comrades. At the same time, the Russians sent in a number of close air support aircraft who reportedly killed several hundred “good” terrorists and beat back the attack (Russian sources speak of the destruction of 850 fighters, 11 tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles, 46 armed pickup trucks, five mortars, 20 freighter trucks and 38 ammo supply points; you can see photos of the destroyed personnel and equipment here). What also makes this event unique is the official reaction of the Russians to this event.

Head of the Main Operations Department at Russia’s General Staff Colonel General Sergei Rudskoi declared that:

“Despite agreements signed in Astana on September 15, gunmen of Jabhat al-Nusra and joining them units that don’t want to comply with the cessation of hostilities terms, launched a large-scale offensive against positions of government troops north and northeast of Hama in Idlib de-escalation zone from 8 am on September 19 (…) According to available data, the offensive was initiated by American intelligence services to stop a successful advance of government troops east of Deir ez-Zor“.

Today, other Russian officials have added a not-so-veiled threat to this accusation. The Russian Defense Ministry’s spokesman, Major General Igor Konashenkov has declared that:

Russia unequivocally told the commanders of US forces in Al Udeid Airbase (Qatar) that it will not tolerate any shelling from the areas where the SDF are stationed (…) Fire from positions in regions [controlled by the SDF] will be suppressed by all means necessary.

This is unprecedented on many levels. First, the Russians clearly believe that this attempt to kill or capture a platoon of the Russian military police was planned by the United States. The fact that they are making this accusation officially shows the degree of irritation felt by the Russians about the duplicity of the Americans. Second, this is the first time, at least to my knowledge, that Russian Spetsnaz forces had to be sent in to rescue a surrounded Russian subunit. All Spetsnaz operators survived, but three of them were wounded in the operation (the Russians are not saying how badly). The close air support by very low flying SU-25 aircraft was obviously coordinated by Spetsnaz forward air controllers and probably saved the day. In other words, this was a close call and things could have ended much more badly (just imagine what the Takfiri crazies would have done, on video, to any captured Russian serviceman!). Finally, a US-organized attack on what was supposed to be a “de-confliction” zone combined with an attempt to capture Russian soldiers raises the bar for American duplicity to a totally new level.

The big question now is “do the Russians mean it?” or are they just whining with real determination to hit back if needed.

There are a couple of problems here. First, objectively, the Russian contingent in Syria is a tiny one if compared to the immense power of CENTCOM, NATO and the ever-present Israelis. Not only that, but in any US-Russian confrontation, Russia as a country is objectively the weaker side by any measure except a full-out nuclear exchange. So the Russians are not in a position of force. Furthermore, for historical and cultural reasons, Russians are much more concerned by the initiation of any incident which could lead to all-out war than the Americans who always fight their wars in somebody else’s country. This might seem paradoxical, but the Russians fear war but they are ready for it. In contrast to the Russians, the Americans don’t fear war, but neither are they ready for it. In practical terms this means that an American miscalculation could very well lead to a Russian military response which would stun the Americans and force them to enter an escalatory spiral which nobody would control.

Remember how Hillary promised that she would unilaterally impose a so-called “no-fly” zone over Syria? She promised not only to deploy US aircraft above Russian forces in Syria, but she also promised that she would force the Russian Aerospace forces out of the Syrian skies. Thank God, this crazy witch was not elected, but it appears that folks with the same arrogant and,frankly, completely irresponsible point of view are now back in power under Trump.

My fear now is that the incompetent, arrogant, not too bright and generally ignorant commanders at the Pentagon and the CIA will simply ignore clear warning signs coming from the Russians, including the public announcement that the Kremlin has given the authority to use force to protect Russian personnel to the local Russian commanders in Syria. In plain English, this means that if they are attacked the Russians in Syria do not need to consult with Moscow before using force to protect themselves. By the way, such rules of engagement are pretty common, there is nothing earth shattering here, but the fact that they were made public is, again, a message to the AngloZionist and the “good” terrorist they use to try to conquer Syria.

This time around we (the world) were lucky. The Syrians fought hard and the “good” terrorists were probably surprised by the ruthless determination of the Russian military police forces (in reality, mostly Chechen special forces) and of the Spetsnaz operators. It is one thing to fight Syrian conscripts, quite another to deal with these hardened warriors. But the next time around the outcome could be different.

The bigger picture is also one which gives me a great deal of concern. The Syrians, with Iranian, Hezbollah and Russian help, have freed Deir ez-Zor and have crossed the Euphrates river and are moving further East. In plain English this means that the US and Daesh have lost the war and that the last region of Syrian from which the AngloZionists can hope to partition the country (their current “plan B”) and establish a permanent US military presence is now threatened by the Syrian advance. The distance between the US forces currently deployed in northeastern Syria and Syrian, Iranian, Hezbollah and Russian forces is becoming shorter and shorter each day. I can just imagine how, say, Iranian or Hezbollah forces which are already “smelling” the nearby presence of US forces are drooling with hunger for the moment they will finally be able to get their hands on their old and most hated foe. I feel sincerely sorry for the first US unit to make contact with the Iranians or Hezbollah forces.

Right now the Americans are hiding behind the Kurds, but sooner or later the Iranians or Hezbollah will find them. As for the Kurds, their situation in Iraq is precarious, to put it mildly: they are surrounded on all sides by the Turks, the Syrians and the Iranians and their only more or less stable zone of control is in Iraq. The Americans understand that perfectly, hence their desperate attempts to stop the Syrians.

This is a very dangerous situation: even though CENTCOM and NATO are by far the “biggest guys on the block”, in Syria the Americans are cornered, their corner is shrinking fast and it remains entirely unclear how this process can be stopped. Hence the attack on the de-confliction zone we just witnessed.

I hope that eventually the Americans will do what they did in al-Taif and simply pack, declare victory and leave. That would be the only rational thing to do. But after listening to Trump at the UN I don’t get the feeling that being rational is at the top of the US priority list. That’s all rather frightening.
 
I can't think of a time since WW2 where the US had as many irons in the fire.

1. North Korea - Nuclear standoff. No good solution in sight.
2. China - Combination of difference of opinion on North Korea, South China Seas jurisdiction could lead to trade wars.
3. Syria - Think its winding down? Think again. (See two previous entries above). The US support for the Kurds potentially pits the US against Russia, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran in addition to Syria. Russia is now accusing the US or supporting terrorists in order to block the Syrian army from advancing toward oil fields to reclaim them.
4. Afghanistan - 16 years of wasted time and billions of dollars.
5. Iran - Trump is expected to break the deal and increase sanctions. European allies want to keep the deal.
6. Venezuela - Play close attention here. The US and South American allies will use sanctions to squeeze Madura. What might happen is that FARC and the Venezuelan army could merge and take over Columbia and Panama. The US would be faced with a Vietnam type of jungle quagmire to free the Canal and gain control. China and Russia could offer financial and other support to Venezuela.
 
I have a question. Is their any U.S. engagement in the country's entire military history you agree with? Or at least don't have absurd amounts of contempt towards? Geez Man.
 
Brad Austin said:
I have a question. Is their any U.S. engagement in the country's entire military history you agree with? Or at least don't have absurd amounts of contempt towards? Geez Man.
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Doesn't it ever strike you that theUnited States is involved in practically every altercation around the globe? The United States has morphed into. Tyrannical empire. The US spends more than 10 times what Russia spends on defense and Mattis is crying for more.

Like most Americans, Brad you have been brainwashed by decades of propaganda. One hundred points of light, beacon of democracy, defender of human rights. Its all bull dukey. It's all about domination, empire, and greed for a small minority that governs from the shadows and uses political lackeys and media to fool everyone. We are Rome.
 
 
Musburger1 said:
Like most Americans, Brad you have been brainwashed by decades of propaganda. One hundred points of light, beacon of democracy, defender of human rights. Its all bull dukey. It's all about domination, empire, and greed for a small minority that governs from the shadows and uses political lackeys and media to fool everyone. We are Rome.
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Hardly. You naively assume I just listen to the gov narratives and support all our incursions and conflicts, that's far from the truth.

I've been fortunate to spend much intimate time in my life with people born in many of these places we've engaged.

Hearing first hand accounts from people who's close family members were involved on location is much more enlightening than blind reliance on conspiracy sites and labeling all American news reports over history as Imperialist propaganda.

Claiming I blindly trust propaganda is rich coming from someone who posts every "Death to America" conspiracy article that hits the wire and goes on a diatribe about its validity and implications while completely trusting its fringe author. :clap:

I'll grant you much of your description applies to post-Cold War American military involvement. Not all, but the large majority.

But only a communist supporter...cough cough...wouldn't understand taking a stand against the spreading red tide in Asia was of absolute necessity even if royally incompetent in execution.

Your absolute disdain and contempt for American military action in its entirety makes me wonder why you even bother living here.

Do you hate the land you live in as all evidence suggests? Show me any country without massive flaws and I'll joyfully laugh at the assertion.

If you wanna be a comrade so bad, I'm sure Vlad will oblige if you ask. Show him your HF history, a high level propaganda gig would be a shoe-in. :thumbup:

But hey, once there be sure to refrain from web rants about the flaws in his government. America has afforded you that right. Mother Russia and your hero won't be so kind.
 
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Brad Austin said:
Hardly. You naively assume I just listen to the gov narratives and support all our incursions and conflicts, that's far from the truth.

I've been fortunate to spend much intimate time in my life with people born in many of these places we've engaged.

Hearing first hand accounts from people who's close family members were involved on location is much more enlightening than blind reliance on conspiracy sites and labeling all American news reports over history as Imperialist propaganda.

Claiming I blindly trust propaganda is rich coming from someone who posts every "Death to America" conspiracy article that hits the wire and goes on a diatribe about its validity and implications while completely trusting its fringe author. :clap:

I'll grant you much of your description applies to post-Cold War American military involvement. Not all, but the large majority.

But only a communist supporter...cough cough...wouldn't understand taking a stand against the spreading red tide in Asia was of absolute necessity even if royally incompetent in execution.

Your absolute disdain and contempt for American military action in its entirety makes me wonder why you even bother living here.

Do you hate the land you live in as all evidence suggests? Show me any country without massive flaws and I'll joyfully laugh at the assertion.

If you wanna be a comrade so bad, I'm sure Vlad will oblige if you ask. Show him your HF history, a high level propaganda gig would be a shoe-in. :thumbup:

But hey, once there be sure to refrain from web rants about the flaws in his government. America has afforded you that right. Mother Russia and your hero won't be so kind.
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Just because a person doesn't march in lock step with the government doesn't make that person anti-American. On the contrary, when the government becomes lawless and shreds the constitution as ours has done, the patriotic thing to do is point that out and oppose it. You're "love it or leave it" attitude is a copout people often use in order to avoid the realities they can't face.
 
Musburger1 said:
Here's ananalytical perspective on most recent happening in Syria.

http://thesaker.is/russian-special-...a-denounce-the-usa-and-issue-a-stark-warning/

Russian special forces repel a US-planned attack in Syria, denounce the USA and issue a stark warning
491 Views September 21, 2017 2 Comments
Something rather unprecedented just happened in Syria: US backed “good terrorist” forces attempted a surprise attack against Syrian government forces stationed to the north and northeast of the city of Hama. What makes this attack unique is that it took place inside a so-called “de-escalation zone” and that it appears that one of the key goals of the attack was to encircle in a pincer-movement and subsequently capture a platoon of Russian military police officers deployed to monitor and enforce the special status of this zone. The Russian military police forces, composed mainly of soldiers from the Caucasus region, fought against a much larger enemy force and had to call for assistance. For the first time, at least officially, Russian special operations forces were deployed to rescue and extract their comrades. At the same time, the Russians sent in a number of close air support aircraft who reportedly killed several hundred “good” terrorists and beat back the attack (Russian sources speak of the destruction of 850 fighters, 11 tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles, 46 armed pickup trucks, five mortars, 20 freighter trucks and 38 ammo supply points; you can see photos of the destroyed personnel and equipment here). What also makes this event unique is the official reaction of the Russians to this event.

Head of the Main Operations Department at Russia’s General Staff Colonel General Sergei Rudskoi declared that:

“Despite agreements signed in Astana on September 15, gunmen of Jabhat al-Nusra and joining them units that don’t want to comply with the cessation of hostilities terms, launched a large-scale offensive against positions of government troops north and northeast of Hama in Idlib de-escalation zone from 8 am on September 19 (…) According to available data, the offensive was initiated by American intelligence services to stop a successful advance of government troops east of Deir ez-Zor“.

Today, other Russian officials have added a not-so-veiled threat to this accusation. The Russian Defense Ministry’s spokesman, Major General Igor Konashenkov has declared that:

Russia unequivocally told the commanders of US forces in Al Udeid Airbase (Qatar) that it will not tolerate any shelling from the areas where the SDF are stationed (…) Fire from positions in regions [controlled by the SDF] will be suppressed by all means necessary.

This is unprecedented on many levels. First, the Russians clearly believe that this attempt to kill or capture a platoon of the Russian military police was planned by the United States. The fact that they are making this accusation officially shows the degree of irritation felt by the Russians about the duplicity of the Americans. Second, this is the first time, at least to my knowledge, that Russian Spetsnaz forces had to be sent in to rescue a surrounded Russian subunit. All Spetsnaz operators survived, but three of them were wounded in the operation (the Russians are not saying how badly). The close air support by very low flying SU-25 aircraft was obviously coordinated by Spetsnaz forward air controllers and probably saved the day. In other words, this was a close call and things could have ended much more badly (just imagine what the Takfiri crazies would have done, on video, to any captured Russian serviceman!). Finally, a US-organized attack on what was supposed to be a “de-confliction” zone combined with an attempt to capture Russian soldiers raises the bar for American duplicity to a totally new level.

The big question now is “do the Russians mean it?” or are they just whining with real determination to hit back if needed.

There are a couple of problems here. First, objectively, the Russian contingent in Syria is a tiny one if compared to the immense power of CENTCOM, NATO and the ever-present Israelis. Not only that, but in any US-Russian confrontation, Russia as a country is objectively the weaker side by any measure except a full-out nuclear exchange. So the Russians are not in a position of force. Furthermore, for historical and cultural reasons, Russians are much more concerned by the initiation of any incident which could lead to all-out war than the Americans who always fight their wars in somebody else’s country. This might seem paradoxical, but the Russians fear war but they are ready for it. In contrast to the Russians, the Americans don’t fear war, but neither are they ready for it. In practical terms this means that an American miscalculation could very well lead to a Russian military response which would stun the Americans and force them to enter an escalatory spiral which nobody would control.

Remember how Hillary promised that she would unilaterally impose a so-called “no-fly” zone over Syria? She promised not only to deploy US aircraft above Russian forces in Syria, but she also promised that she would force the Russian Aerospace forces out of the Syrian skies. Thank God, this crazy witch was not elected, but it appears that folks with the same arrogant and,frankly, completely irresponsible point of view are now back in power under Trump.

My fear now is that the incompetent, arrogant, not too bright and generally ignorant commanders at the Pentagon and the CIA will simply ignore clear warning signs coming from the Russians, including the public announcement that the Kremlin has given the authority to use force to protect Russian personnel to the local Russian commanders in Syria. In plain English, this means that if they are attacked the Russians in Syria do not need to consult with Moscow before using force to protect themselves. By the way, such rules of engagement are pretty common, there is nothing earth shattering here, but the fact that they were made public is, again, a message to the AngloZionist and the “good” terrorist they use to try to conquer Syria.

This time around we (the world) were lucky. The Syrians fought hard and the “good” terrorists were probably surprised by the ruthless determination of the Russian military police forces (in reality, mostly Chechen special forces) and of the Spetsnaz operators. It is one thing to fight Syrian conscripts, quite another to deal with these hardened warriors. But the next time around the outcome could be different.

The bigger picture is also one which gives me a great deal of concern. The Syrians, with Iranian, Hezbollah and Russian help, have freed Deir ez-Zor and have crossed the Euphrates river and are moving further East. In plain English this means that the US and Daesh have lost the war and that the last region of Syrian from which the AngloZionists can hope to partition the country (their current “plan B”) and establish a permanent US military presence is now threatened by the Syrian advance. The distance between the US forces currently deployed in northeastern Syria and Syrian, Iranian, Hezbollah and Russian forces is becoming shorter and shorter each day. I can just imagine how, say, Iranian or Hezbollah forces which are already “smelling” the nearby presence of US forces are drooling with hunger for the moment they will finally be able to get their hands on their old and most hated foe. I feel sincerely sorry for the first US unit to make contact with the Iranians or Hezbollah forces.

Right now the Americans are hiding behind the Kurds, but sooner or later the Iranians or Hezbollah will find them. As for the Kurds, their situation in Iraq is precarious, to put it mildly: they are surrounded on all sides by the Turks, the Syrians and the Iranians and their only more or less stable zone of control is in Iraq. The Americans understand that perfectly, hence their desperate attempts to stop the Syrians.

This is a very dangerous situation: even though CENTCOM and NATO are by far the “biggest guys on the block”, in Syria the Americans are cornered, their corner is shrinking fast and it remains entirely unclear how this process can be stopped. Hence the attack on the de-confliction zone we just witnessed.

I hope that eventually the Americans will do what they did in al-Taif and simply pack, declare victory and leave. That would be the only rational thing to do. But after listening to Trump at the UN I don’t get the feeling that being rational is at the top of the US priority list. That’s all rather frightening.
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Oh look...Russia/Syria need some attention. Is it any surprise this "news" comes out the week of the UN General Assembly? Syria was definitely the forgotten topic during this weeks activities. No available airtime between Trump and Kim Jong Un calling each other crazy and Myanmar.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Oh look...Russia/Syria need some attention. Is it any surprise this "news" comes out the week of the UN General Assembly? Syria was definitely the forgotten topic during this weeks activities. No available airtime between Trump and Kim Jong Un calling each other crazy and Myanmar.
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You don't get it. The point is this DIDNT come out. It's not being reported at all. You have to go to non pro-west news agencies to learn about it. It's called suppression and it's another effective tool the government controlled major news agencies use to keep the public in line.
 
The US pulled out of the ABM treaty and has surrounded Russia with ABMs designed to eliminate Russian retaliation from a first strike thus eliminating Russia’s deterrence. What would you have expected the Russian reaction to be?
 
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