Foreign Policy Discussion: Russia

[Mr. Deez]

Whether NATO is or isn't meaningless, is its purpose to defend all of Europe?

It's purpose is to defend its members.

Is its purpose to continually grow and expand membership?

Its expansion or contraction should be carried out on a case by case basis. Generally arrangements like NATO work when the nations involved are generally democratic and when the people in those nations have mostly common values. For example, though I think Romania and Poland are good fits for NATO, I don't think Turkey is. In fact in a way, Russia would be a better fit in NATO than Turkey.

If not, how wise is it to follow that trajectory when Russia announces they plan to oppose those objectives militarily?

It's a factor, but you don't let that dictate the decision. If you do, then you aren't sovereign. You're a de facto puppet of Russia.

And if expansion of NATO is an objective in terms of protecting Eastern European countries, how much safer are these countries now that Russia has labeled them a target as long as the ABM system resides there?

That depends. If you accept the premise that Putin is the epitome of morality and virtue and that his concern is truly nothing more than self-defense and that no other nation will ever be missile threat, then it's obviously safer not to have an ABM system. It takes a lot of naivete to buy all that, and most European nations aren't that naïve.

 

[Musburger1]

Speaking of Turkey, that country is rapidly transforming into a dictatorship. There is no longer freedom of the press inside Turkey. But Turkey is strategically located as a bridge between Europe and the Middle East. Saudi Arabia and Turkey are two of the biggest purchasers of US armaments. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy and one of the harshest regimes in the world in terms of human rights. Turkey is quickly following that downward slope. And ironically, both countries continue to pour funds and manpower in terms of radical jihadis into Syria, demanding that Syria become more democratic. And we are in cahoots with both of them. That's insanity.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Speaking of Turkey, that country is rapidly transforming into a dictatorship. There is no longer freedom of the press inside Turkey. But Turkey is strategically located as a bridge between Europe and the Middle East. Saudi Arabia and Turkey are two of the biggest purchasers of US armaments. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy and one of the harshest regimes in the world in terms of human rights. Turkey is quickly following that downward slope. And ironically, both countries continue to pour funds and manpower in terms of radical jihadis into Syria, demanding that Syria become more democratic. And we are in cahoots with both of them. That's insanity.

You won't get an argument from me on this. Turkey is a mess, and like other Islamic nations, democracy is getting weaker while radicalization is getting stronger.

You may already know this, but the US has evacuated a massive number of Americans from Turkey in the last few months. They cite ISIS as the reason, and to be fair, Incrlik Air Base is close to Syria. However, I don't think this would be occurring if we trusted the Turkish government.

It would not surprise me if Turkey is out of NATO five years from now.

 

[Musburger1]

Turkey's relationship with Germany is deteriorating.
https://www.rt.com/news/345538-german-mps-threats-genocide/

Meanwhile, back to the original topic, why resort to dialog and diplomacy when you can use intimidation and bluffing to accomplish goals?
http://thesaker.is/obama-slams-door...be-the-one-to-press-the-nuclear-button-first/

 

[Joe Fan]

US Navy seems to be chasing a Russian submarine that "went off course " -- mouth of the Chesapeake Bay.

 

[Joe Fan]

.....What have russians ever been good at?
-- Vodka
-- Chess
-- Propaganda
-- Invading neighbors
-- Writing bad code/hacking
Miss anything?

Neglected to include soccer hooligans

 

[Joe Fan]

"You see it differently when you live here," Larsen said.

"We need to learn to fight total war again," he said, in a sign of the return of a Cold War-style mood.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-russia-idUSKCN0YZ0LW

 

[Joe Fan]

......
What have russians ever been good at?
-- Vodka
-- Chess
-- Propaganda
-- Invading neighbors
-- Writing bad code/hacking
Miss anything?

Revised and updated --
-- Writing bad code/hacking
-- Propaganda
-- Invading neighbors
-- mail order brides
-- cheating athletes
-- soccer hooligans
-- Vodka
-- Chess

 

[texas_ex2000]

Revised and updated --
-- Writing bad code/hacking
-- Propaganda
-- Invading neighbors
-- mail order brides
-- cheating athletes
-- soccer hooligans
-- Vodka
-- Chess

I think Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Chekov, Tchaikovsky, and Rachmaninoff are worth checking out. I also recommend a visit to the Bolshoi, the Hermitage, and Winter Palace. Take a Ural motorcyle with your girl in the sidecar to get there. She'll think it's great.

The 1812 Overture is a staple of 4th of July concerts...we can think Mr. Tchaikovsky for that.

 

[Joe Fan]

I think Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Chekov, Tchaikovsky, and Rachmaninoff are worth checking out. ....

Does anyone actually like Russian writers or do they just pretend to in order to impress people? I am not sure the Russians even liked them --

Dostoevsky: sentenced to death, exiled to a Siberia
Pushkin: died in a duel
Lermontov: died in a duel
Griboyedov: torn to pieces
Solzhenitsyn: Gulag

In any event, Russian literature ended with Dostoevskii and Tolstoy (with perhaps the exception of Pushkin).

 

[texas_ex2000]

Does anyone actually like Russian writers or do they just pretend to in order to impress people? I am not sure the Russians even liked them --

Dostoevsky: sentenced to death, exiled to a Siberia
Pushkin: died in a duel
Lermontov: died in a duel
Griboyedov: torn to pieces
Solzhenitsyn: Gulag

In any event, Russian literature ended with Dostoevskii and Tolstoy (with perhaps the exception of Pushkin).

I don't know if I count as "anyone." I'm not a Russian lit expert, but I've read Brothers K, Anna K, and several Chekhov short stories and loved them (Anna K especially). Then again, I was a liberal arts major and volunteer as a docent at an art museum...so that probably make me a snob.

 

[Joe Fan]

.....so that probably make me a snob.

No worries here.
(i had to read them too; had to keep a cheatsheet book tag with all the names; soooo many names to keep track of)
And since you did not object, you must agree with the rest of the list?
Credit for caviar or not?

 

[texas_ex2000]

No worries here.
(i had to read them too; had to keep a cheatsheet book tag with all the names; soooo many names to keep track of)
And since you did not object, you must agree with the rest of the list?
Credit for caviar or not?

definite credit for caviar.

This is what's weird about Russo/American relations/conflict. There's not a lot of reasons culturally why we shouldn't be on better terms. I think the Space Station is an example of how we work well together.

The two main reasons I can think of are the Communist revolution (now hopefully in our rear view mirror), and alliances with our allies. I guess you can also say there's a completely nothing at all personal reality of "the World is only big enough for one us."

Why in the hell are we allies with Saudi Arabia? Why are we in bed with the Chinese economically? Sure the Russians (in general and Putin specifically) can be pretty unsavorable in some things...but they're not as bad as the Saudis and Chinese.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Joe Fan]

Snowden is a Russian agent
Not a whistleblower

 

[Musburger1]

Below are three important articles everyone should read (but probably won't). As far as I know, none of these articles were put out by the Kremlin.

The first article discusses evolution at the State Department in light of 51 "diplomats" recent request that the US up the ante in Syria by bombing Assad forces.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/06/17/the-state-departments-collective-madness/

The next piece is an op-ed by Chris Martenson highlighting the escalation between the US/NATO and Russia.
http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/99008/tensions-between-usnato-russia-flaring-dangerously

And the third article shows that not all of Germany is united with the aggressive NATO buildup in Eastern Europe.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-slams-nato-warmongering-russia-115515814.html?ref=gs

 

[Joe Fan]

International Olympic Committee declares that it support on ban of all Russian track and field athletes from Rio 2016


At least they dont have to agonize over the Zika

 

[Joe Fan]

"State-run" cheating

 

[Joe Fan]

Russia putting new nuclear-capable missiles along NATO border by 2019

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-europe-shield-idUSKCN0Z90WT

 

[Joe Fan]

Moscow building new Spy Site in Nicaragua

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/moscow-building-spy-site-nicaragua/


"The Russian government is building an electronic intelligence-gathering facility in Nicaragua as part of Moscow’s efforts to increase military and intelligence activities in the Western Hemisphere.

The signals intelligence site is part of a recent deal between Moscow and Managua involving the sale of 50 T-72 Russian tanks, said defense officials familiar with reports of the arrangement.

The tank deal and spy base has raised concerns among some officials in the Pentagon and nations in the region about a military buildup under leftist Nicaraguan leader Daniel Ortega.

Disclosure of the Russia-Nicaraguan spy base comes as three U.S. officials were expelled from Nicaragua last week. The three Department of Homeland Security officials were picked up by Nicaraguan authorities, driven to the airport, and sent to the United States without any belongings......"

 

[Musburger1]

Perhaps the Russians will begin sending troops, conduct war games, and deploy missiles in Nicaragua and Cuba - in order to make the region more secure. I can't imagine why the US would object to anything like that.

 

[Joe Fan]

Snowden is a Russian agent
Not a whistleblower....

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Joe Fan]

Would love to know how much it cost to get in whom they got in

 

[Joe Fan]

"Russian Diplomat Pulls Robber Into Car And Shoots Him At The Rio Olympics"
http://www.dailywire.com/news/8121/...hoots-him-chase-stephens#.V6SZwqm1hmg.twitter

"Besides the Zika mosquitos, poisoned swimming waters, and constant threats of violence, Rio sure seems like the perfect place to host some good-timin' summer Olympic fun.

On Thursday, near Rio's Olympic Park, a Russian diplomat used his jiu-jitsu training to tackle and kill a would-be robber who attacked him and his family in their car, according to Brazilian state run news agency Agencia Brasil.

The 60-year-old Russian vice-consul, Marcos Cesar Feres Braga, was stuck in traffic, just after the Olympic torch relay had passed on the Avenida das Americas in Barra da Tijuca. Braga was with his wife and daughter in his BMW M6 when a robber pulled up along side them on his motorcycle.

The criminal smashed the car window and pointed a gun at the lawyer, demanding he hand over his watch. That's when Braga, a student of jiu-jitsu, grabbed the attacker and pulled him into the vehicle, took the bad-guy's own gun and killed him with it at point blank range........."

 

[mchammer]

"Russian Diplomat Pulls Robber Into Car And Shoots Him At The Rio Olympics"
http://www.dailywire.com/news/8121/...hoots-him-chase-stephens#.V6SZwqm1hmg.twitter

"Besides the Zika mosquitos, poisoned swimming waters, and constant threats of violence, Rio sure seems like the perfect place to host some good-timin' summer Olympic fun.

On Thursday, near Rio's Olympic Park, a Russian diplomat used his jiu-jitsu training to tackle and kill a would-be robber who attacked him and his family in their car, according to Brazilian state run news agency Agencia Brasil.

The 60-year-old Russian vice-consul, Marcos Cesar Feres Braga, was stuck in traffic, just after the Olympic torch relay had passed on the Avenida das Americas in Barra da Tijuca. Braga was with his wife and daughter in his BMW M6 when a robber pulled up along side them on his motorcycle.

The criminal smashed the car window and pointed a gun at the lawyer, demanding he hand over his watch. That's when Braga, a student of jiu-jitsu, grabbed the attacker and pulled him into the vehicle, took the bad-guy's own gun and killed him with it at point blank range........."

How do you follow that post?

 

[mchammer]

Someone told me that this "diplomat" is likely a spy.

 

[Joe Fan]

Ukraine puts troops near Russia border on combat alert as tension with Moscow spike

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/08/11/world/europe/ap-eu-russia-crimea.html?_r=0

 

[Joe Fan]