Eagles Requesting Campus Changes

[MajesticII]

Petition going around on web from Dallas area supporting the player demands... Someone needs to get one started in support for the University against these demands.....

 

[OrangeShogun]

Everyone has read and no where are they saying they are quitting the team or refusing to play, right?

They’re saying that if they’re completely ignored they won’t participate in recruiting or help get donations.

Why would they?

Days before the University, athletic department, and coaches all told them they mattered, their voices would be heard, and that they were committed to reducing systemic racism. So if these people flat out ignore them, why would they participate in these two specific activities?

Am I missing something?

You're missing the enormous and conspicuous other shoe that is poised to drop. If these demands are not met, do you honestly believe these players will limit their refusal to participate to only the two specifically named activities? If these demands are not met, do you honestly believe these players are going to play their guts out for the University and fans they so obviously abhor?
Htown77 and others are dead nuts correct, until these cancers are removed, this team is a dead man walking.

 

[theiioftx]

This is courage, from a watch company no less:

Thanks my friend. Needed that.

 

[SabreHorn]

“Your first loss is your least loss” - old banker’s saying.

Time to cut bait and move on, including the guy holding the pole.

The way this has been handled is beyond embarrassing and that falls on Tim Herman. I have made my choice for the next HC.

 

[theiioftx]

Funny how different things are observed by different people. 23 draws a line at Bevo and or Hookem but not the ‘Eyes’. Me? The Eyes have it. Bevo, no way he leaves but as cool as he is, especially with the kids and all, but I’d quickly let him go before the Eyes. To me that song is Texas and when the words “the eyes of Texas are upon you” are sung that is exactly what I think of at the time. I’ve always imagined that as a player it’s a lot harder to sing and/or listen to when you lose. That’s what it means to me. As far has having to sing it? BS they font all sing now. Heck it irritates me when I don’t see them with Horns up during the playing. But I’m just an old sap.

Anybody who hasn’t sung The Eyes after a Cotton Bowl win or The Rose Bowl has no idea what it means. But it’s more than that. It’s an everyday approach to life as a Texas Longhorn.

 

[OrangeShogun]

“Your first loss is your least loss” - old banker’s saying.

Time to cut bait and move on, including the guy holding the pole.

The way this has been handled is beyond embarrassing and that falls on Tim Herman. I have made my choice for the next HC.

Sabre, you're gradually turning me away from being a Herman supporter. Until recently, I could limit my consideration to football related factors, but I must agree, it appears that Coach Herman has botched the handling of this issue. Surely he didn't foresee these players coming forth with extortion demands, right?

 

[RainH2burntO]

Everyone has read and no where are they saying they are quitting the team or refusing to play, right?

They’re saying that if they’re completely ignored they won’t participate in recruiting or help get donations.

Why would they?

Days before the University, athletic department, and coaches all told them they mattered, their voices would be heard, and that they were committed to reducing systemic racism. So if these people flat out ignore them, why would they participate in these two specific activities?

Am I missing something?

I, for one, am not suggesting they completely ignore them; but, to your question...
Yes, in my eyes and in the eyes of many (not all) of the posters here this is about waaay more than a few athletes and their feelings. If you want to look through that lense then most of your posts are quite reasonable, but to do so misses the connection these activities and demands have to a myriad of things that are happening in our country that, if naively acquiesced to, will surely spell disaster for our future.
If you can't connect the dots and see this then nothing anyone here can say will matter to you in the context of the debate. To us....this is the context.

If you dont see it now...you will.....

 

[UTexRulz23]

Until now.

Nope. Still not.

 

[UTexRulz23]

Lot of overt racism here. I think you can disagree with these athletes all you want. The attitudes and rhetoric from some y’all is just a shame.

The whole “shut up and play” trope is tired. Too damn close to “just keep shucking and jiving to appease the white folk”.

 

[RainH2burntO]

On some level this exercise seems counterfactual.

But I don’t have a problem being honest.

When I read this list, none of the things stood out to me as unreasonable. When I read about “The Eyes of Texas” I’ll be honest, I didn’t understand. I didn’t get why this was included. Then saw that they imply that athletes are required to sing. It seems like a no brained to me that they shouldn’t have to. Then I read about the blackface minstrel shows and I get it. It doesn’t affect me in the way that it would affect BIPOC, so I don’t know that is productive. “White guy doesn’t see problem with it” isn’t exactly an unpredictable or productive response. From my position of privilege, it doesn’t bother me in the way that it could bother others. I think an open dialogue, discussion, and research would be warranted. If they came back and gave a respectful and warranted response as to why it was staying, I don’t know that I’d be up in arms. But if I lose this tradition, I know that people matter more.

I don’t want to cop out, but you’re asking about a request that would be my line. But I don’t have all the information.

If, for example, some said to take down the bell tower that would make me say “what?!?” But if there were cause, I’m not saying I couldn’t be persuaded.

If the players were demanding change in a week or they’d quit the team, I may be more inclined to say goodbye (though I would hope that reaching out and having dialogue would change their minds).

If they said they refuse to play with white players, that would go too far.

If they said that athletes should have reduced academic requirements or conversely, make a requirement that all UT students take certain race/history classes, then that would seem outside of their scope and a bit too far.

Problem with Hook Em or Bevo? Yeah that would be hard. But would depend on what that problem is.

Those types of things.

This list, in comparison to those things, seems even more reasonable.

UTex, your post here is thoughtful enough; but you say nothing on their list of requests seems unreasonable to you...and you seem to have little doubt of the righteousness of their position or sentiment....
So, the fact that part of their demands are that UT cut ties with APD and campus police doesnt give you pause on this^^^^ position or prompt you to question their premise/motivation?

 

[UTexRulz23]

UTex, your post here is thoughtful enough; but you say nothing on their list of requests seems unreasonable to you...and you seem to have little doubt of the righteousness of their position or sentiment....
So, the fact that part of their demands are that UT cut ties with APD and campus police doesnt give you pause on this^^^^ position or prompt you to question their premise/motivation?

So two things:
1) that last talking point wasn’t in Brennan’s tweet and that’s all I’ve seen

but

2) the University of Minnesota did this exact thing already. So, no, it’s not all that radical.

(also thank you for your civility)

 

[theiioftx]

Lot of overt racism here. I think you can disagree with these athletes all you want. The attitudes and rhetoric from some y’all is just a shame.

The whole “shut up and play” trope is tired. Too damn close to “just keep shucking and jiving to appease the white folk”.

You are the biggest racist posting and don’t have the awareness to know it. Regurgitate what you have been told. Don’t think.

By the way, there is a link below to sponsor.

 

[RainH2burntO]

So two things:
1) that last talking point wasn’t in Brennan’s tweet and that’s all I’ve seen

but

2) the University of Minnesota did this exact thing already. So, no, it’s not all that radical.

(also thank you for your civility)

Thanks. You, as well.
I found #1 in a news story...I'll look for the link

#2 If Minnesota did it then it must be an absolutely aweful idea and it still avoids my point.
My point is asking for that (aside from being asinine in my view) reflects a sentiment that goes much deeper than "racist" symbols and it's one I patently reject without equivocation. (This goes for the BLM contribution requests, as well.)

 

[EDT]

 

[theiioftx]

So two things:
1) that last talking point wasn’t in Brennan’s tweet and that’s all I’ve seen

but

2) the University of Minnesota did this exact thing already. So, no, it’s not all that radical.

(also thank you for your civility)

Minnesota is a great example. Everything is so peaceful and functional there.

 

[OrangeShogun]

By the way, there is a link below to sponsor.

The sponsorship is worth it, if nothing else, just to avoid the ads.

 

[William Bush]

So two things:
1) that last talking point wasn’t in Brennan’s tweet and that’s all I’ve seen

but

2) the University of Minnesota did this exact thing already. So, no, it’s not all that radical.

(also thank you for your civility)

(also thank you for your civility)[/QUOTE]
You are using the University of Minnesota as an example of what the University of Texas should do? Seriously? It IS radical, and IMO dangerously stupid.

 

[RainH2burntO]

Here's the link to one of the pieces that notes the "cutting ties with APD and campus police" demand

UT-Austin football players demand school rename buildings named after racist figures, donate to Black Lives Matter

 

[Htown77]

Charles Whitman, Meechaiel Criner and the hundreds of bike and phone thieves all agree UT should cut ties with the Austin Police and disband UTPD.

 

[Htown77]

The whole “shut up and play” trope is tired. Too damn close to “just keep shucking and jiving to appease the white folk”.

I have no problem with players talking. I think these demands are ignorant and unworthy of respect. I do not care if these players or Herman shut up or apologize. I never want to seen any of them coach or play again.

Read what people write, not what the propaganda you buy into says we "mean".

 

[nashhorn]

Lot of overt racism here.

since I have posted in this thread more than I normally post in weeks I consider myself included in that comment and I resent it. Started to give a long discourse on background and ‘friends’ etc. but not going any further. I can tell you in all sincerity that I never saw skin color until the last year with all the new ‘woke’ crap coming forth. As a lighter note and confession, if I saw some hooded folks walking toward me (At night) I would cross the street to avoid,,,,,,,well before I knew if they were black or white.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

The sponsorship is worth it, if nothing else, just to avoid the ads.

The ads are enough to make the most hard-core Sooner sponsor. My God they are horrid.

 

[Htown77]

“Your first loss is your least loss” - old banker’s saying.
Time to cut bait and move on, including the guy holding the pole.

The way this has been handled is beyond embarrassing and that falls on Tim Herman. I have made my choice for the next HC.

This mishandling has made Tom Herman the worst coach in Texas Football history. Tom Herman declaring our fans racist and turning the players against us is worse than anything John Mackovic did.

Tom Herman: "Can the average fan relate? No, they can't. There's a double standard maybe a little bit. We're going to pack 100,000 people into DKR and millions watch on TV that are predominantly white — not all of them certainly, but most of 'em white. We're gonna cheer when they score touchdowns, and we're gonna hug our buddy when they get sacks or an interception.

"But we gonna let them date our daughter? Are we going to hire them in a position of power in our company? That's the question I have for America. You can't have it both ways.

"And if you're going to cheer them and love them for three-and-a-half hours a Saturday in the fall, you better have the same feelings for them off the field, because they're human beings. They deserve the same amount of respect and human rights that all of us do in this country when we agreed on the social contract to be a member of the United States."

Tom Herman made a broad, false assumption about his fanbase. I have only had the pleasure of ever encountering one former UT football player (who is an african american, not that it matters or should matter) in my line of work. His business offered a service I can use, and I have sent business his way on multiple occasions. He was a great player at UT that I watched play as a kid, and, unlike what Tom Herman said, I have always thought it was cool to be able to do business with a former UT Football great. I am happy with his firm's work product. However, if anything, I have been biased sending work his away instead of his competitors, some of whom look like me, despite being one of the Texas Football fans that Herman derides. I think that being a former UT football player is, or at least was until this weekend, a great advantage in the current business world among other alumni and UT fans. However, Tom Herman decided to talk out of his butt and falsely declare that other alumni like me refuse to hire former UT football players. Herman decided to turn the players and fans against each other. Herman needs to go!

Herman has done more damage to the program than Bill Powers, Steve Patterson, Art Briles, Barry Switzer, Jackie Sherril and Charlie Strong combined. In order for me to possibly root for UT football again, Herman needs to be fired ASAP.

 

[Chinstrap]

Lot of overt racism here. I think you can disagree with these athletes all you want. The attitudes and rhetoric from some y’all is just a shame.

The whole “shut up and play” trope is tired. Too damn close to “just keep shucking and jiving to appease the white folk”.

You better be careful throwing around those racism accusations. Call me that in person and you won’t like what I do to you. That and the N word are pretty serious.

 

[UTexRulz23]

Some of y’all are just so freaking obtuse. If you’re offended at things being called overtly racist, then don’t be overly racist. Not my problem you’re so fragile.

 

[UTexRulz23]

since I have posted in this thread more than I normally post in weeks I consider myself included in that comment and I resent it. Started to give a long discourse on background and ‘friends’ etc. but not going any further. I can tell you in all sincerity that I never saw skin color until the last year with all the new ‘woke’ crap coming forth. As a lighter note and confession, if I saw some hooded folks walking toward me (At night) I would cross the street to avoid,,,,,,,well before I knew if they were black or white.

Interesting.

*gets offended at possibly, thought not directly in any way, being linked to racism*
*posts a racist confession*

Interesting.

 

[TEXAS1983]

Good evening.

I've enjoyed this site since it started, and go all the way back to Austin360 before then. I can honestly say I've never read a more distressing or depressing thread here ever.

Just my observations here as a 50ish white guy who had the privilege to earn two degrees from The University of Texas. Take them or leave them as you will.

What I see in this thread is a microcosm of the same disjointed and halting conversation that's been afflicting the entire country, rooted in defensiveness and false ( or sloppy) tropes all the way around. That being said, I would argue that having a little bit better conversation on race, class, privilege, and simple equity would be a very good thing.

I'd humbly propose starting with some basic things that any reasonable observer ought to be able to agree on.
1.These young men are responding to events that have deeply impacted the country as a whole. These same events undoubtedly impact these young men even more due to their life experiences, the experiences of their families, and the experiences of their friends and neighbors. They're also very young. Cut them some slack.
2. Slavery, the new south movement, Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, the Klan, lynchings, the Tulsa race riot, etc. actually happened. Objectively, none of them were good things. No, African Americans weren't better off, or better "taken care of" then.
3. The legacy of all of those historical occurrences includes to this day huge wealth, education, and income gaps for African Americans.
4. Yes, police are much more likely to stop African Americans than they are whites. Yes, police are much more likely to act aggressively towards African American suspects or protesters than they are whites.Compare police reaction to assault rifle armed white dudes invading state capitol buildings with the many documented unprovoked pepper spraying and rubber bullets incidences at recent BLM protests.

So, if you are unable to admit that the USA has an unfortunate history of race relations, or that some of those issues still remain, or that cops can act very wrongly and often act wrongly towards African americans, there isn't much room for discussion about the important things: how do we all make things better?

The athletes have proposed some solutions. The real question isn't "Why should the University respond to blackmail?" , as if any contentious change anywhere has ever happened by asking nicely, then waiting patiently. It should be "Do any of these ideas actually make a meaningful difference?"

Some might. Some are less likely to, or are simply not feasible. If your claim to historical fame is leading a bloody insurrection against the United States in the name of preserving the "right" to own human beings, you shouldn't get a heroic memorial statue. Whatever good you did in life really can't overcome that monumental misjudgement.

If you were an education ( for whites) proponent who was an ardent segregationist, it's less cut and dried, but your statue should come with a warning label. Note the bad with the good.

Same with building names. Case by case.

I was unaware of any minstrel show connections with The Eyes. That being said, was the song chosen for those connotations or was it chosen because "I've Been Working on the Railroad" was familiar and easy to sing? I think that context matters here.

Lastly, giving state funds to a political organization like BLM, whatever you think of that group's merits is a no go. Spending some dough on outreach to disadvantaged high schools might work though.

Just some thoughts. I hope they're mostly calm ones. We're not as divided as we think we are.

Hook'em!

 

[mchammer]

Good evening.

I've enjoyed this site since it started, and go all the way back to Austin360 before then. I can honestly say I've never read a more distressing or depressing thread here ever.

Just my observations here as a 50ish white guy who had the privilege to earn two degrees from The University of Texas. Take them or leave them as you will.

What I see in this thread is a microcosm of the same disjointed and halting conversation that's been afflicting the entire country, rooted in defensiveness and false ( or sloppy) tropes all the way around. That being said, I would argue that having a little bit better conversation on race, class, privilege, and simple equity would be a very good thing.

I'd humbly propose starting with some basic things that any reasonable observer ought to be able to agree on.
1.These young men are responding to events that have deeply impacted the country as a whole. These same events undoubtedly impact these young men even more due to their life experiences, the experiences of their families, and the experiences of their friends and neighbors. They're also very young. Cut them some slack.
2. Slavery, the new south movement, Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, the Klan, lynchings, the Tulsa race riot, etc. actually happened. Objectively, none of them were good things. No, African Americans weren't better off, or better "taken care of" then.
3. The legacy of all of those historical occurrences includes to this day huge wealth, education, and income gaps for African Americans.
4. Yes, police are much more likely to stop African Americans than they are whites. Yes, police are much more likely to act aggressively towards African American suspects or protesters than they are whites.Compare police reaction to assault rifle armed white dudes invading state capitol buildings with the many documented unprovoked pepper spraying and rubber bullets incidences at recent BLM protests.

So, if you are unable to admit that the USA has an unfortunate history of race relations, or that some of those issues still remain, or that cops can act very wrongly and often act wrongly towards African americans, there isn't much room for discussion about the important things: how do we all make things better?

The athletes have proposed some solutions. The real question isn't "Why should the University respond to blackmail?" , as if any contentious change anywhere has ever happened by asking nicely, then waiting patiently. It should be "Do any of these ideas actually make a meaningful difference?"

Some might. Some are less likely to, or are simply not feasible. If your claim to historical fame is leading a bloody insurrection against the United States in the name of preserving the "right" to own human beings, you shouldn't get a heroic memorial statue. Whatever good you did in life really can't overcome that monumental misjudgement.

If you were an education ( for whites) proponent who was an ardent segregationist, it's less cut and dried, but your statue should come with a warning label. Note the bad with the good.

Same with building names. Case by case.

I was unaware of any minstrel show connections with The Eyes. That being said, was the song chosen for those connotations or was it chosen because "I've Been Working on the Railroad" was familiar and easy to sing? I think that context matters here.

Lastly, giving state funds to a political organization like BLM, whatever you think of that group's merits is a no go. Spending some dough on outreach to disadvantaged high schools might work though.

Just some thoughts. I hope they're mostly calm ones. We're not as divided as we think we are.

Hook'em!

How can this be taken seriously when a politician who was photographed in blackface in his college yearbook gets elected governor in a former slave state? Seems like the ire is only in one direction and the motivation is the quest for political power not racial harmony.

 

[Horns11]

How can this be taken seriously when a politician who was photographed in blackface in his college yearbook gets elected governor in a former slave state? Seems like the ire is only in one direction and the motivation is the quest for political power not racial harmony.

What does that have to do with anything in 1983's post?

Quest for political power... yeesh. The Democrats lost that a long time ago with the Southern Strategy, Lee Atwater, Law & Order, the War on Drugs, the Silent Majority, Compassionate Conservatives, and all of the other big give-ups from the 60s to the 21st century. The goalposts keep moving farther and farther to the right. There's never been a quest for racial harmony. This is proven by the "apology tours" from Hillary and Biden for their support of past policies that were right up mainstream Conservative America's collective alley.

The ire from student athletes is in the direction of racists. They're not running for office.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Is renaming Washington DC and the Washington monument not erasing history? What about removing his statues?

Erasing history would be removing evidence of a person's existence. For example, if we renamed Washington, D.C. but also stripped George Washington from history books and destroyed all documented evidence that he ever existed, that would be erasing history.

Would that be worse than making George Washington politically toxic? I'm not sure that it would be. If we view the founding fathers as toxic, then we'll support destroying the system they created. That's the point.