Does anyone want Herman back next year?

The following is from a poster on YT. It's an outstanding analysis.


"This is a really odd situation. I'm not a UT fan, though I am involved in football in the state, so I have an outsider's perspective, and I think I can see the issue with that program. The last three coaches who've been in charge in Austin are all good coaches. Mack is a great coach. Not a good coach, a great coach. Merely good coaches don't win national titles, given how steep that mountain is. Mack was said to have lost it, yet here he is leading a top-tier program again at Carolina.

Charlie Strong has succeeded everywhere he's been. Except Austin. Tom Herman has succeeded everywhere he's been. Except Austin. Hell, he won a major bowl and spanked FSU and OU in consecutive games at Houston. And yet, the narrative is that Strong and Herman forgot how to coach the minute they stepped off the plane in Travis County. I don't think so. I think that after Herman is dismissed, he will re-emerge at a smaller program and pick up where he left off at UH, just as Charlie has done. Mack has gone back to what is really a marginal program at UNC and made it a winner again.

That leaves the eternal question: why are these quality coaches doing so poorly at Texas?There is only one reason that seems plausible to me. The culture around that program is so puffed up and self-congratulatory that the players don't believe they have to work and fight to excel in this game. There must be so many hangers-on, suckups, and $50 handshake men around the program that these boys think they've arrived the instant they step foot on campus. And that culture must be so powerful and pervasive that it overrides the messages they're getting from even tough coaches like Strong.

Usually we see this thing at the pro level, where players often make more money and are far less expendable than coaches. It's rare in college, because most HCs are dictators in their respective programs. Nothing happens at Alabama that hasn't already been approved by Nick Saban, and the most highly touted five star couldn't cut a fart without his permission. Not so at Texas. These players--all of whom seem talented--are being told by forces outside the coaching staff that they don't really have to listen to these coaches. Because the fact is they aren't listening to the coaches.

What Charlie has sold has worked everywhere else. Same for Herman. If you replaced Patterson with Herman at TCU, they would still be beating Texas 2 out of every 3. There is nothing wrong with Herman as a coach. It's the culture of that program.

The other thing that tells me this is going on is the perception of UT players in NFL front offices. They're known to be among the softest players of any college program, dating to the 1990s. The DKR-Akers players were tough, guys like Nobis, Jerry Gray, McMichael, and Campbell. The players since Dodds took over have been mostly pretty soft. And, having lived in Austin, it's not hard to see how that could happen. The town treats that program like a pro team, and all doors are open to the players. My wife worked at a state agency and saw several players get jobs there, jobs for which they weren't really qualified.

So until the athletic department clamps down on that nonsense and starts hardening their players for the rigors of major competition, this will continue. Get whomsoever you want as HC, but this is not changing until the culture turns around. I almost think that Saban shied away from the UT job and that blank check because he knew the problems endemic to it. And he knew he couldn't fix them all without more and better support in the AD."
There are some truths in this, some opinions and some falsehoods. First and foremost, Charlie has been a failure at USF and he is not liked. He may be a good person, but not a good coach.

Yes, TH's players are soft because he doesn't hold them accountable and panders to them. Mack's players were not soft. A couple of coaches drummed that up to recruit against Mack and kept saying it enough the media ran with it.

Kasey Studdard was soft? Micheal Griffin, Derrick Johnson. Vince? Hell no. Mack even took players that came in soft like Micheal Huff and made him tough.
 
There are some truths in this, some opinions and some falsehoods. First and foremost, Charlie has been a failure at USF and he is not liked. He may be a good person, but not a good coach.

Yes, TH's players are soft because he doesn't hold them accountable and panders to them. Mack's players were not soft. A couple of coaches drummed that up to recruit against Mack and kept saying it enough the media ran with it.

Kasey Studdard was soft? Micheal Griffin, Derrick Johnson. Vince? Hell no. Mack even took players that came in soft like Micheal Huff and made him tough.
I remember reading that during the summer before our NC Vince was holding mandatory early morning workouts. One day, according to the source, Michael Griffin told Vince he had to do something with the dogs he raised and wouldn’t be there. Vince told him that unless he wasn’t interested in winning a NC he had better be at practice. He was.
 
If we were so soft, how come we continually played better as games went on under Mack rather than continually blowing leads when the pressure came on?
 
I am always surprised how I seem to differ in opinion with so many here. Or do I just differ with the vocal crowd. It looks like I may be the only one on this thread and maybe the only sponsor on HF that feels this way, but I think he gets one more year. I felt when Ash and Yurcich were brought in we set the stage that these guys get 2 years.

On the social stance, I wasn't offended by TH statement from June that we all want to drag up again now that we have 2 losses. I think he gave some honest insight on some double standards that still exist in our world today. Do I think the guy is arrogant- hell yes, but I also don't want some meek pigeon as our HC. I am pissed about The Eyes and how he and everyone at the University has handled that situation. It pissed me off after the UTEP game, even more after I watched from the stands after TCU and even more as I watched from the stands on Saturday. Hartzell, CDC and Herman need to get that situation under control now. Like many of you suggested after UTEP I called CDC's office to let my feelings known. I spoke to a young lady in the Athletic Dept who took my comments for CDC. They need to figure it out.

Maybe I am giving 2020 too much credit for the screwed up year and I hate losing but I don't think the sky is falling. Everyone seems to be putting their chips in the middle for Urban- what if that doesn't work out he goes to USC or another program that doesn't bring all the BS dealing with TX and our expectations bring.

Losing sucks- My wife and I took my 12 and 13 yo daughters to their first OU game on Saturday and baked in the stands to watch an inferior product get put on the field- we should be a better team than TCU. And I think we are better than OU if for no other reason than our Sr QB to their Fr QB. But I just know always changing our underwear gets fixes the problem.

I don't think the UGA win in Sugar Bowl was a fluke. I don't think Utah win in the Alamo Bowl was fluke and maybe I am just becoming indifferent but the losses the last 2 weeks didn't hit me like either Maryland loss, Tech '17 or WVU '18.

Many years ago my good aggie friend came to me with some marital strife. He was a few years into his marriage, was very successful in his business, had lots of women chasing him and he thought he could find happiness elsewhere. I counseled him after having gone through a failed marriage myself that the grass isn't always greener on the other side and that the relationship could be stronger if they were able to work through the challenges. 15 years later, after going through counseling- they have a devoted marriage and a great family. I know Head Coaches aren't the same as a marriage. But if we somehow come through this with Herman, I have no doubt we will be stronger on the other side. So I'll be on the one lone soldier on here to say "I'll take Herman back next year".
well thought out. if you were in the LHB now, would you play the eyes
 
well thought out. if you were in the LHB now, would you play the eyes
Damn straight. Loud and proud and would expect every other member of the band to do it. I support a lot of the concerns on social justice and equality that have been brought up but for me the Eyes argument doesn’t hold water.
 
You can't force someone to be patriotic or loyal. If they're just going through the motions what's the point?
IDE, you're disagreed with a lot on this board. I agree with you that it's pointless. I think everyone's angered by the ignorance of the stance the players are taking. I think BLM and its followers are taking irrational stands against "white" traditions, not based on fact, but just to make us all insanely angry.... and I, dammit, am insanely angry....but I'm working on it...
 
Here’s a breakdown of Texas coaching salaries (and remaining contract years):

Tom Herman is set to earn $6 million in 2020; $6.25 million in 2021; $6.5 million in 2022; and $6.75 million in 2023
Mike Yurcich, offensive coordinator, $1.7 million (3 - through 2022)
Chris Ash, defensive coordinator, $800,000 (2 - through 2021)
Jay Boulware, TEs/STs coordinator, $700,000 (3 - through 2022)
Herb Hand, offensive line, $700,000 (2 - through 2021)
Stan Drayton, running backs, $650,000 (2 - through 2021)
Coleman Hutzler, linebackers, $600,000 (2 - through 2021)
Mark Hagen, defensive tackles, $550,000 (2 - through 2021)
Yancy McKnight, strength coach, $510,000 (2 - through 2021)
Oscar Giles, defensive ends, $400,000 (2 - through 2021)
Andre Coleman, receivers, $350,000 (year to year)
Jay Valai, cornerbacks, $300,000 (2 - through 2021)
 
247 posted Herman's buyout as of Dec 1st at a smidge over $15 million. Its not $25 mil as has been previously rumored. We have pockets deep enough to afford that.
 
Damn straight. Loud and proud and would expect every other member of the band to do it. I support a lot of the concerns on social justice and equality that have been brought up but for me the Eyes argument doesn’t hold water.
This is where the song came from. It is part of this poem/song....Just because some ******** sang it in a minstrel show doesn't make its lyrics and its meaning as a school song racist....THE EYES OF TEXAS
John Sinclair - 1903
I once did know a President,
Away down South, in Texas.
And, always, everywhere he went,
He saw the eyes of Texas.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
All the live long day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
You can not get away.
Do not think you can escape them
At night or early in the morn-
The Eyes of Texas are upon you
'Till Gabriel blows his horn.
Sing me a song of Prexy,
Of days long since gone by.
Again I seem to great him
And hear his kind reply.
Smiles of gracious welcome
Before my memory rise,
Again I hear him say to me,
"Remember Texas' Eyes."
 
Remember the rant about the song and the pledge to Not attend any donor events cane after Hernan's rant aboutnwhat bad fans we are
 
What is the total buyout for TH and staff as new HC will rightfully want he own staff?
I just read a 247 story (tried to find it but couldn't to link) and they said donors are willing to pay 35 million to buyout the current staff and get a new one. Mentioned in the article was Meyer and Kyle Shanahan for new head coach.
 
I just read a 247 story (tried to find it but couldn't to link) and they said donors are willing to pay 35 million to buyout the current staff and get a new one. Mentioned in the article was Meyer and Kyle Shanahan for new head coach.

Rod Babers said on his radio show yesterday that Kyle is a pro guy and probably would not come back to Austin. According to Rod they are still best friends.
 
Rod Babers said on his radio show yesterday that Kyle is a pro guy and probably would not come back to Austin. According to Rod they are still best friends.
He's also never had to do all the political tasks required to be a successful head coach at Texas, especially recruiting. I have my doubts as to how successful he would be regardless of his success in the NFL.
 
In my mind the politics, especially now, are the killer for many of our possible coaching alternatives. Unless they feel a sense of wanna prove something who would want it.
 
Nash,

I would submit we don't have "our alternativeS" We got one "alternative" unless Chris could convince Saban to come, in which case I'll stand in line to buy the first ticket to watch Chris walk down Lake Austin.

There are dozens of coaches that would jump at the job, some may be capable of doing it, but they are not on anyone's list.
 
Understand your position and desired results. However if number one is to replace Herman I just think our ‘alternatives’ may be influenced by the atmosphere of Texas right now. Not necessarily saying those who would say no are our best or preferred choices just saying, imo, there are those who would see what’s happening (and been happening) and say no thanks I’ll go to _____, instead. I’m just very, very concerned and disappointed in what has become of something that means a lot to me.
 
You are correct that most that would apply or call their agent, won't because of the **** storm that is The University of Texas right now. Make no mistake, this all started with the blessing of Fenves before he was removed.

That's why I think the list is small and repugnant to me, but necessary. Someone that wants the job, is capable of cleaning up Herman's ineptness, and someone capable of dealing with the politics, which will be much easier after Herman's failures.
 
Right now I say one more year. We still have to finish this season and remember our loses were 2 very close games. We lose to OU in OT and lost to TCU on a fumble inches from the goal line. I think we have the potential to end this season strong. Hook 'em.
 
Like the sentiment Bill. I think most of the consternation comes from the caliber of competition against which we have played poorly And struggled.
 
Right now I say one more year. We still have to finish this season and remember our loses were 2 very close games. We lose to OU in OT and lost to TCU on a fumble inches from the goal line. I think we have the potential to end this season strong. Hook 'em.
Even though I am disappointed with performance and disgusted by the "Eyes" mess, I'm willing to wait another year. Problem is we lose a lot of players and may not sign a great class. This was supposed to be the year.
 
This team is #1 in the Big 12 on talent. If TH can’t get to the B12 championship game with THIS team, he should be gone. 6-0!
 
Right now I say one more year. We still have to finish this season and remember our loses were 2 very close games. We lose to OU in OT and lost to TCU on a fumble inches from the goal line. I think we have the potential to end this season strong. Hook 'em.
If we win out, he get's one more year. Consider that it took a football miracle to beat a very bad Tech team. If there is one more loss this year, Herman should be fired .
 
This is my opinion.

Texas is beyond the point of hiring some guy to come in and coach here. Texas needs a solution like the aggys have. Texas needs to hire a proven winner with proven ability to get the job done.

The idea of hiring some young hotshot is no longer an option, that person will not come in with the necessary authority and respect to do the job.

Honestly Urban is your man, anyone else is not an option.

Also keep in mind, I'm pretty sure Urban would keep several members of the staff since he has worked with them in the past, hell half our staff was once his staff. To me, this is a good thing as I like the staff better than the leader.
 
This is my opinion.

Texas is beyond the point of hiring some guy to come in and coach here. Texas needs a solution like the aggys have. Texas needs to hire a proven winner with proven ability to get the job done.

The idea of hiring some young hotshot is no longer an option, that person will not come in with the necessary authority and respect to do the job.

Honestly Urban is your man, anyone else is not an option.

Also keep in mind, I'm pretty sure Urban would keep several members of the staff since he has worked with them in the past, hell half our staff was once his staff. To me, this is a good thing as I like the staff better than the leader.
I agree with you,but at this point I dont care who they hire as long as they get rid of Herman and the malcontents. If we go 1-9 next year without this group it is ok.Just right the ship. Is RC still alive?
 
Even though I am disappointed with performance and disgusted by the "Eyes" mess, I'm willing to wait another year. Problem is we lose a lot of players and may not sign a great class. This was supposed to be the year.
As a hypothetical, if the team name were changed to the “Racism Overcomers,” the colors changed to black and green, and the songs and traditions gone, would you still be okay, as long as that team went 8-3?
 
As a hypothetical, if the team name were changed to the “Racism Overcomers,” the colors changed to black and green, and the songs and traditions gone, would you still be okay, as long as that team went 8-3?
I wouldn't be okay with that if the team went 13-0 with an NC! Thinking even further, I do believe I mail would my diploma back frame and all.
 

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