They got it from me. They told me they were broke after CS.
Does anyone want Herman back next year?
- Thread starter Htown77
- Start date
Worster,
Why pay him lump sum? He gets a tiny office in Bellmont, as well as his perks (two cars, club membership). He has no secretary, but punches a timeclock, 40 hours a week (M-F 8-5). ZERO access to Neuhaus Royal or the practice field.
If he gets an offer, he negotiates it against his buyout - no more Charlie Strong **** yous. Negotiate his buyout down. I would argue that the best litigator in the country is on our BOR. He wants to play games, turn it over to David.
I think 90% of the people close to the program, including BMDs, would admit that they think Herman lost the team when he allowed the puppeteers to slime into the kids lives without Herman having any knowledge of what was happening with "his team". That was how long ago?
Urban Myth is totally repugnant to me, but he is one of only two logical choices, and the only one with a couple of NC. That taint of Billie Powers on the Saban deal echoes through the coaching chain. Meyer wants the job and has been preparing to play this card for over a year.
As to those that think that "Texas changes too quickly", that is not the coaching world. Most coaches knew Strong would fail, which is why he couldn't get assistants to join his staff even with egregious salaries and benefits.
The same is true of Herman. Most coaches thought he was a bad choice and weren't putting their family's future in jeopardy.
Couple this with the list of candidates that aren't Charlie Strong or Tom Herman along with the list of "they have done it", and you're down to one guy that's breathing UNLESS you want to go to Golden Age Manor and get Barry or Jimmy.
Why pay him lump sum? He gets a tiny office in Bellmont, as well as his perks (two cars, club membership). He has no secretary, but punches a timeclock, 40 hours a week (M-F 8-5). ZERO access to Neuhaus Royal or the practice field.
If he gets an offer, he negotiates it against his buyout - no more Charlie Strong **** yous. Negotiate his buyout down. I would argue that the best litigator in the country is on our BOR. He wants to play games, turn it over to David.
I think 90% of the people close to the program, including BMDs, would admit that they think Herman lost the team when he allowed the puppeteers to slime into the kids lives without Herman having any knowledge of what was happening with "his team". That was how long ago?
Urban Myth is totally repugnant to me, but he is one of only two logical choices, and the only one with a couple of NC. That taint of Billie Powers on the Saban deal echoes through the coaching chain. Meyer wants the job and has been preparing to play this card for over a year.
As to those that think that "Texas changes too quickly", that is not the coaching world. Most coaches knew Strong would fail, which is why he couldn't get assistants to join his staff even with egregious salaries and benefits.
The same is true of Herman. Most coaches thought he was a bad choice and weren't putting their family's future in jeopardy.
Couple this with the list of candidates that aren't Charlie Strong or Tom Herman along with the list of "they have done it", and you're down to one guy that's breathing UNLESS you want to go to Golden Age Manor and get Barry or Jimmy.
So is 6-4, 7-3 or 8-2 not damning when combined with the summer statement? Despite what i said above I think less than 7 wins is enough to show him the door and clear evidence he has lost the room. I know for many others they feel that has already happened regardless of the final record.
Record no longer matters to me. Destroying the culture embraced by Earl and Ricky combined with same undisciplined team week in and week out so far is unacceptable after four years
Charlie’s players are making fun of us ... the same ones who lost to Kansas !!
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Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
At this point, I think a losing season sinks He-Man - the noise is loud in the background about him making a large number of the fans livid. See J Mack for an analogue of that, except the comments from this coach are far worse.
But 5, 6, 7 wins - how does that scenario play out? 7 wins and a B12 spot, or certainly that plus a title keeps him around. And while Texas is bad, with OU and TCU also having two losses, they are only a game ahead of Texas. I can see a 3 or 4 loss in conference team getting the second spot.
I think the main aspect to replacing Herman is whether Meyer is truly wanting to come here, at an achievable cost. If so, then maybe anything short of a B12 title is enough to give Herman the boot. It's a definite trade up, to one of the current 3 great coaches by record (him plus Saban and Dabo) in current times.
Without Meyer, and without a losing season, I think Herman will come back for another season, with reasoning as stated by others here (new coordinators, 2020 man!!).
But 5, 6, 7 wins - how does that scenario play out? 7 wins and a B12 spot, or certainly that plus a title keeps him around. And while Texas is bad, with OU and TCU also having two losses, they are only a game ahead of Texas. I can see a 3 or 4 loss in conference team getting the second spot.
I think the main aspect to replacing Herman is whether Meyer is truly wanting to come here, at an achievable cost. If so, then maybe anything short of a B12 title is enough to give Herman the boot. It's a definite trade up, to one of the current 3 great coaches by record (him plus Saban and Dabo) in current times.
Without Meyer, and without a losing season, I think Herman will come back for another season, with reasoning as stated by others here (new coordinators, 2020 man!!).
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I was blessed to see DKR's last game, Fred's last game, David's last game, Mackovic's last game, Mack's last game, Strong's last game. I can only ask that Chris fires Herman after Iowa State embarrasses us, so I don't have to go to Manhattan to keep the streak going.
Good point ... if Urban is not next man up, then what? Ugggggghhhhhh
That's why you have to have the deal cut and signed before you pull the plug.
Meyer has been bucking for this job for over a year. Like most good warriors, he waited to find the soft underbelly and then attacked.
Please be true please !!!
BevoJoe
10,000+ Posts
Very good points, Worster! Looking at the situation currently, the results above are based on the play and results of the 3 conference games. It's more of a "be prepared for the worst" type scenario 4-6. The team could pull it all together a and post a strong 6 game winning streak, finishing 8-2. But, that is most likely unreasonable as is they lose the rest of the games for a 2-8 season finish. Both have IMHO, a somewhat low probability of occurrence. Higher probabilities are 6-4 or 5-5 maybe 4-6. Those finishes are in line with 2 of TH's 3 previous season finishes being 7-6 and 8-5. I throw out the 10-4 which may (not is) be an anomaly or "fluke". So, we have the probability of yet another season 8-2 or 7-4 which are in line with his win totals from 2 seasons.
Perhaps we look at 2020 as a practice year, even though it's in the record books.
But we have 2021 which, God willing and the creek don't rise, will be a regular season.
The other issues that are problematic are 1) After losing to our biggest rival, OU, members left the field and were laughing and cutting up in the tunnel. Laughing, that is unacceptable. I cannot recall any Texas team in all the years I gone to games, where the players left the field laughing after a loss. I wonder what the players from the 70's, 80's and 90's think about Herman and the team. 2) Herman's chastising statement about ALL the fans was misplaced, and has generated animosity by many of the fans I've talked to about his statement. Most are done. Besides, we don't have access to those guys regularly outside of seeing them on the field on game days. Besides, most (not all) of the players are only interested in showcasing their talents for the NFL scouts and don't give a crap about the school, education, or the team. I doubt many even have a concept of a "team" or "team work". I'd like to bring back the old t-shirts they wore under their pads many years back:
TEAM
me
Doubt that any of them would wear them.
The Reality is, unless the really BMDs are pissed at his, I speculate we will have the same atmosphere of division within the team, lackluster performances by the team as a whole and many more losses against opponents with lesser talent, is our new norm. We might see a ten win season now and then, but that's about it.
I doubt Urban would even give UT a look let alone accept a HC job there. He might get things back on track, but then, who knows. Just don't see it unless its a short term contract with many caveats in it.
Time for the Short Answers To Your ?s
1. The nuclear button means they owe Mensa a lot $$$$$$$. Unless the BMDs want him gone. In that case, the money will fall like manna from heaven.
2. Is the anger enough to dig deep into those pockets to make TH go away? Maybe, who knows. But the BMDs are rather quiet right now. My guess is they are more than merely pissed off!
3. Who ya' gonna call? Excellent question. Right now, I have no idea. UMs name is floating around.
4. Urban Myth is getting a lot of buzz.... True, and he was on the air talking about TH and not in a complimentary way. Depends on who contacts him and how much $$$ is laid on the table.
5. In the end I don't think UT Admin will go along with UM due to his baggage. I could be wrong.That's the key. But look who we ended up with when Mack resigned. Mack's having a pretty solid season so far BTW. If our deep pockets want change it will happen. Then there is the cost of his replacement. IF UM was acceptable, and IF the money could be put together UM it might be a good hire at least UM would not tolerate any of the stuff about "The Eyes" and other issues, especially players laughing while leaving the field after a loss. He'd most likely tell them, "Your here for these things, play football to show the NLF how good you are and get a free education from one of the top universities in the country. All this other has nothing to do with football. If you do not think you can or do not want want to do both those things to the absolute best of your abilities. I'll step out and those of you who want to leave, place your jersey on this podium. But if you stay, you better be all in. So you choose. Personally, I do not care which, because you are all, ALL, replaceable." Or something similar.
Joe,
It comes down to economics, and while the administration knows only slightly more about economics than a shoeshine boy, they should be able to understand this:
With TH
2020 - $165 million
2021 - $150 million
2022 - $150 million
Without TH
2020 - $165 million
2021 + $85 million
2022 + 125 million
It comes down to economics, and while the administration knows only slightly more about economics than a shoeshine boy, they should be able to understand this:
With TH
2020 - $165 million
2021 - $150 million
2022 - $150 million
Without TH
2020 - $165 million
2021 + $85 million
2022 + 125 million
Counselor, excellent response and good points!
BevoJoe
10,000+ Posts
Thanks Worster!
We can extend coaches money in the pit (see @SabreHorn) .
,, I listen lol, hire the best ... cuz we r Texas, make it happen CDC. Don’t make me watch soccer jk lol
,, I listen lol, hire the best ... cuz we r Texas, make it happen CDC. Don’t make me watch soccer jk lol
BevoJoe
10,000+ Posts
Interesting Saber. So without TH, the program makes up for the 2020 deficit in two years with a small surplus to carry forward into 2023. Look to me like a “no-brainer” decision. Have not seen this before. Thanks For posting.
To be fair he’s been poking Tom Herman’s soft underbelly for longer than that. I, too, think UM is repugnant. He’s also the best and most available choice and it’s obvious.
You can't force someone to be patriotic or loyal. If they're just going through the motions what's the point?
MajesticII
1,000+ Posts
TEXAS...Love it or leave it .....The portal is that way !!!!!!
I bet he could take this same group of malcontents and have 100X the results TH gets with them.
We have a tacit agreement with the players. We like to think they chose UT because they love it like we do, and we like to think they are student-athletes and are here to get a good education while using football to pay for it. They like to think they are important to us as individuals and that we really care what they think. They broke the deal so now I am looking for someone in a position of authority to disavow them of their fantasy like they disavowed us of ours.
Is this lost revenue?
PecosBill
1,000+ Posts
@SabreHorn curious about the numbers you posted. I have seen Univ of Texas posting a loss of -$165M for the university and reported also in the Sports media.
With SEZ constr in process and 25% capacity in place this year there are less than 23K seats available a reduction of 77K in seating available for purchase.
- 5 home game scheduled in 2020 w UTEP OOC
- 6 home games in 2021 w Ragin Cagins and Rice OOC
- 7 home games in 2022 w Bama, UTSA and La Monroe OOC
B12 TV contract has no major changes other than games played and postseason.
You numbers are lower than Charlie S worst years at TX.
Are you saying that 2021 and 2022 will be less than 100K capacity available?
Care to share your analysis?
MajorRules00
500+ Posts
The following is from a poster on YT. It's an outstanding analysis.
"This is a really odd situation. I'm not a UT fan, though I am involved in football in the state, so I have an outsider's perspective, and I think I can see the issue with that program. The last three coaches who've been in charge in Austin are all good coaches. Mack is a great coach. Not a good coach, a great coach. Merely good coaches don't win national titles, given how steep that mountain is. Mack was said to have lost it, yet here he is leading a top-tier program again at Carolina.
Charlie Strong has succeeded everywhere he's been. Except Austin. Tom Herman has succeeded everywhere he's been. Except Austin. Hell, he won a major bowl and spanked FSU and OU in consecutive games at Houston. And yet, the narrative is that Strong and Herman forgot how to coach the minute they stepped off the plane in Travis County. I don't think so. I think that after Herman is dismissed, he will re-emerge at a smaller program and pick up where he left off at UH, just as Charlie has done. Mack has gone back to what is really a marginal program at UNC and made it a winner again.
That leaves the eternal question: why are these quality coaches doing so poorly at Texas?There is only one reason that seems plausible to me. The culture around that program is so puffed up and self-congratulatory that the players don't believe they have to work and fight to excel in this game. There must be so many hangers-on, suckups, and $50 handshake men around the program that these boys think they've arrived the instant they step foot on campus. And that culture must be so powerful and pervasive that it overrides the messages they're getting from even tough coaches like Strong.
Usually we see this thing at the pro level, where players often make more money and are far less expendable than coaches. It's rare in college, because most HCs are dictators in their respective programs. Nothing happens at Alabama that hasn't already been approved by Nick Saban, and the most highly touted five star couldn't cut a fart without his permission. Not so at Texas. These players--all of whom seem talented--are being told by forces outside the coaching staff that they don't really have to listen to these coaches. Because the fact is they aren't listening to the coaches.
What Charlie has sold has worked everywhere else. Same for Herman. If you replaced Patterson with Herman at TCU, they would still be beating Texas 2 out of every 3. There is nothing wrong with Herman as a coach. It's the culture of that program.
The other thing that tells me this is going on is the perception of UT players in NFL front offices. They're known to be among the softest players of any college program, dating to the 1990s. The DKR-Akers players were tough, guys like Nobis, Jerry Gray, McMichael, and Campbell. The players since Dodds took over have been mostly pretty soft. And, having lived in Austin, it's not hard to see how that could happen. The town treats that program like a pro team, and all doors are open to the players. My wife worked at a state agency and saw several players get jobs there, jobs for which they weren't really qualified.
So until the athletic department clamps down on that nonsense and starts hardening their players for the rigors of major competition, this will continue. Get whomsoever you want as HC, but this is not changing until the culture turns around. I almost think that Saban shied away from the UT job and that blank check because he knew the problems endemic to it. And he knew he couldn't fix them all without more and better support in the AD."
"This is a really odd situation. I'm not a UT fan, though I am involved in football in the state, so I have an outsider's perspective, and I think I can see the issue with that program. The last three coaches who've been in charge in Austin are all good coaches. Mack is a great coach. Not a good coach, a great coach. Merely good coaches don't win national titles, given how steep that mountain is. Mack was said to have lost it, yet here he is leading a top-tier program again at Carolina.
Charlie Strong has succeeded everywhere he's been. Except Austin. Tom Herman has succeeded everywhere he's been. Except Austin. Hell, he won a major bowl and spanked FSU and OU in consecutive games at Houston. And yet, the narrative is that Strong and Herman forgot how to coach the minute they stepped off the plane in Travis County. I don't think so. I think that after Herman is dismissed, he will re-emerge at a smaller program and pick up where he left off at UH, just as Charlie has done. Mack has gone back to what is really a marginal program at UNC and made it a winner again.
That leaves the eternal question: why are these quality coaches doing so poorly at Texas?There is only one reason that seems plausible to me. The culture around that program is so puffed up and self-congratulatory that the players don't believe they have to work and fight to excel in this game. There must be so many hangers-on, suckups, and $50 handshake men around the program that these boys think they've arrived the instant they step foot on campus. And that culture must be so powerful and pervasive that it overrides the messages they're getting from even tough coaches like Strong.
Usually we see this thing at the pro level, where players often make more money and are far less expendable than coaches. It's rare in college, because most HCs are dictators in their respective programs. Nothing happens at Alabama that hasn't already been approved by Nick Saban, and the most highly touted five star couldn't cut a fart without his permission. Not so at Texas. These players--all of whom seem talented--are being told by forces outside the coaching staff that they don't really have to listen to these coaches. Because the fact is they aren't listening to the coaches.
What Charlie has sold has worked everywhere else. Same for Herman. If you replaced Patterson with Herman at TCU, they would still be beating Texas 2 out of every 3. There is nothing wrong with Herman as a coach. It's the culture of that program.
The other thing that tells me this is going on is the perception of UT players in NFL front offices. They're known to be among the softest players of any college program, dating to the 1990s. The DKR-Akers players were tough, guys like Nobis, Jerry Gray, McMichael, and Campbell. The players since Dodds took over have been mostly pretty soft. And, having lived in Austin, it's not hard to see how that could happen. The town treats that program like a pro team, and all doors are open to the players. My wife worked at a state agency and saw several players get jobs there, jobs for which they weren't really qualified.
So until the athletic department clamps down on that nonsense and starts hardening their players for the rigors of major competition, this will continue. Get whomsoever you want as HC, but this is not changing until the culture turns around. I almost think that Saban shied away from the UT job and that blank check because he knew the problems endemic to it. And he knew he couldn't fix them all without more and better support in the AD."
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