Conflicted at a Visceral Level

The purpose of this forum, Hornfans, is to share our common interest and to “respectfully“ discuss our opinions. It is normal for there to be disagreements.

For those of you who choose to attack contrary opinions or the authors of those contrary opinions, shame on you. By doing so you diminish yourselves and you devalue this forum.

It’s fine to disagree. In fact, it’s encouraged. I would just ask that you do it with class, and respect. And if or when I fail to behave in this manner, please call me out.
 
Texanne said:
I haven’t called anybody any names, and my comments have not been vitriolic. And I would tell them directly to your face. I would wear a mask, however, and I would expect for you to do the same.
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You're right, sorry about that. You din't call anyone any names.
 
I understand the concept behind the original post. Gotta say, I cheered when Kansas just whipped Texas in OT a few years ago. For a win there might have continued the living joke that was the Charlie Strong Experience. Still get a chuckle remembering how some of his players crashed the Monday press conference and threatened to quit if he was fired that week - the best response I heard was "didn't they already quit on Saturday?"

Herman isn't quite in that boat yet. His teams have been average, with a few good wins mixed in with some bad ones. Trophy case is still as empty as the Texas ATM one.

So, I think you can root or be OK with Texas winning, without being worried about a bad coach sticking around.

If Texas wins out, they go to the B12 game, most likely against OU.

A win there wins the conference title, avenges the earlier loss, and puts Texas in a major bowl. It will have been a good season, and I'd be OK with Herman staying at Texas.

A loss there probably sinks Herman - he'd be the only Texas coach with 2 losses to OU in one season, plus sinking his record against them to 1-5 (!), and no conference championships in 4 years.

Actually, a loss between now the the B12 game could very well lead to more murkiness than if Texas wins out. Say Texas loses to ISU, who then goes to the B12 game. Texas ends up at 7-3, no title, but if another big name coach isn't available, then does he hang on for another year?

Whereas I think a second B12 title game loss, and a just dismal record against OU seals his fate.

So, you can root for Texas to win out the regular season, and then either Herman puts up in the B12 game, or hopefully gets shut up if Texas loses.
 
Wow, interesting exchanges here. Already said my 2 cents overall so just wanted to say Hermann was profuse in his expressing appreciation to the fans in his post game, FYI.
 
nashhorn said:
Wow, interesting exchanges here. Already said my 2 cents overall so just wanted to say Hermann was profuse in his expressing appreciation to the fans in his post game, FYI.
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He was profuse because his boss told him he had better start mending fences with the people who pay his salary.
 
nashhorn said:
Wow, interesting exchanges here. Already said my 2 cents overall so just wanted to say Hermann was profuse in his expressing appreciation to the fans in his post game, FYI.
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I did notice that as well, and I thought okay maybe he understands that he came on a little strong- lesson learned and like me ... when I do that pick yourself up and grow. Like Joe said, I’m 58 and the severity and occurrences of me doing things I felt were right- speaking directly to taking a stand without understanding the implications, have dramatically declined over the years.
I think THs heart was right, he lives those kids and his comments were genuine. I also think after the emotions subsided- he realizes that he could have turned down the volume.
Yes- complete conjecture on my part.
This is a forum for opinions and my opinion is that TH genuinely appreciated the fans support and I feel this current staff can get us where we need to be.
Nothing political here- I feel Ted Cruz is too liberal.
 
dukesteer said:
For those of you who choose to attack contrary opinions or the authors of those contrary opinions, shame on you. By doing so you diminish yourselves and you devalue this forum.
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look you had to know this was going to be controversial.
FWIW the first one to hit you with the snowflake label was someone who I know agrees With your politics.
They’re singing your beloved song and they’re winning games. Not good enough. What the **** else do you require at this point? Tom herman is only going to last as long as they keep on winning games.
what other kind of atonement do the players and Tom Herman owe you?
Sorry you feel disrespected but You had to know that you were going to get told to Get over yourself when you made this post.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
Yes, me too. At 57, I continue to do things I need to be forgiven for, though I like to think they are fewer and farther between. An apology from TH would go a long way, even if it is just an apology for carelessly wording that infamous mid-summer statement. The players? No need. They are very young, and learning. I just hope they learn to discern the difference between **** and shinola sooner rather than later.
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Don't worry about it, Sangre. I'm 66 and I do things that require an apology now and again myself. I may be wrong, but I doubt TH would ever admit he was out of line with his statements about the fans, so I don't expect an apology from him, even though, in and indirect way, the fans pay a good chunk of his wages and provide the wherewithal for the facilities he enjoys.
 
Detective Shilala said:
look you had to know this was going to be controversial.
FWIW the first one to hit you with the snowflake label was someone who I know agrees With your politics.
They’re singing your beloved song and they’re winning games. Not good enough. What the **** else do you require at this point? Tom herman is only going to last as long as they keep on winning games.
what other kind of atonement do the players and Tom Herman owe you?
Sorry you feel disrespected but You had to know that you were going to get told to Get over yourself when you made this post.
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While I agree that it's time to move on, your contempt for the Eyes is unfortunate.
 
Texanne said:
I’m sorry my comment seemed condescending. But I’ve been reading a lot of posts on these boards since the BLM movement started. And most of you guys have directed your anger at the players and Herman. But it sure seems to me that you guys are making little effort to understand why the players are upset, and little to address the issue at hand: that people of color still face systemic racism in this country, especially at the hands of law enforcement. You’ve denied the existence of white privilege and mocked the few of us who have tried to explain it. Maybe not you personally — I can’t remember all the posters who did and I’m too tired to go back and look.
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I have no doubt all this talk about "systemic racism" is mostly bulls**t. Blacks have been doing very well for a long time now. Many cities and states have high ranking political blacks in office, including my own town. The mayor is black. Blacks have made great strides in getting good jobs, especially the last 50 years. Didn't we just have a black president for 8 years. Now we have a black female vice president. Systemic racism is made much larger than it really is and I know certain groups are trying to hype it up for their own political advantage. Blacks are getting jobs in every vocation and every level as whites. No doubt about it. Is there some white privilege? Yes and it's because the white population is at about 70 percent. If I went to live at Lagos Nigeria do you think I could get a job, even if I was fluent in their language? No, in fact I probably couldn't even walk around town much less work or shop. And I wouldn't expect to. But here anyone can walk around just about anywhere. So this racism crap is just fodder for special interest groups. I won't apologize for being white and I don't expect other races to apologize either. I don't even feel any guilt about slavery either cause more whites have been slaves than any other race in the history of mankind. So I don't kowtow to political correctness or popular opinion. But I do believe in the golden rule of treating every one else the way you would like to be treated.
 
Tom Herman seems like he's got a fragile ego. He might not take criticism well enough to learn from it. But he takes pride in his work ethic. Probably for good reason. He strikes me as a guy who's made up for a lot of his shortcomings with that work ethic. Unfortunately that pride and work ethic is resulting in close games that shouldn't be close and way too many losses. Do I think hes a prick? Yes. Do I think he can be better? Yes. Can I wait? Ask me after this season.

I would never root against the Horns. But maybe I'd try to console myself with the hope that a proven elite coach might take Herman's place. That's not always guaranteed though. We definitely don't want to be scrambling around for another up-and-comer.

The political aspect of the players' concerns and how that was addressed is irrelevant. I guess growing up an atheist in Texas I got used to players expressing their personal beliefs in various ways, on and off the field, with varying degrees of institutional support. To me that's just a part of life in the land of the free.
 
Texanne said:
I still love the Horns. I will watch them. I will root for them to succeed.

All of them.
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What happens when the team decides again that the Eyes of Texas is a "racist" song and refuses to participate?

You understand that a good portion of the players are being forced against their will to stay after the game and stand for the song right?
 
AustinHorn24 said:
What happens when the team decides again that the Eyes of Texas is a "racist" song and refuses to participate?

You understand that a good portion of the players are being forced against their will to stay after the game and stand for the song right?
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Careful, she's going to add you to her list.
 
I fear that happening Austin, especially after every game but I must say seeing them after last game did indeed make me feel very good. Then when watching the replay I was further pleased to see many more with Horns up (not outstretched mind you but up nonetheless) than I had noticed in person. If I get disappointed later it will be a regression but for now they make me very happy.
 
Texanne said:
I’m sorry my comment seemed condescending. But I’ve been reading a lot of posts on these boards since the BLM movement started. And most of you guys have directed your anger at the players and Herman. But it sure seems to me that you guys are making little effort to understand why the players are upset, and little to address the issue at hand: that people of color still face systemic racism in this country, especially at the hands of law enforcement. You’ve denied the existence of white privilege and mocked the few of us who have tried to explain it. Maybe not you personally — I can’t remember all the posters who did and I’m too tired to go back and look.
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The players are right to be upset about a lot of things, but the Eyes of Texas ain't one of them.

I'm sorry but I'm calling BS on that specific complaint.

The minstrel shows of the early 1900s were racist, no doubt, but that does NOT make the song racist. If the song is racist by association, then so is the name UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS and therefore the name of the university must be changed too.

The players who have a problem with the Eyes are being completely unreasonable.
 
Frankly, saying these players are victims of systemic racism throughout the majority or any parts of their lives is purely speculative on this board and flat out ******** most likely.
 
Systemic racism is real.

But this crap about the Eyes is NOT racism.

When the Eyes was sung at the minstrel show in the early 1900s by people wearing blackface, was it directed at black people? How many black students were in that audience in 1900? Zero because UT didn't accept black students back then.

Minstrel shows were clearly racist caricatures, but that doesn't mean that every single thing done at this shows is de facto racist.

It's lazy logic to associate everything done at the minstrel show as racist.

If the Eyes is racist, then so are the following:

1. University of Texas name itself
2. Burnt orange color (which was worn by most people in attendance at these minstrel shows)
3. Bevo is racist because he was brought to those early minstrel shows
4. Longhorn logo is racist because it was used as the backdrop at those minstrel shows
 
Not sure this belongs here or recruiting, but here it is.
At some point, it dawns on a working mule that that harness and reins means work is about to be done. When that happens, the mule heads to the far side of the pasture the minute it sees harnesses.
Likewise, at some point it is bound to dawn on us that WE may be the problem. Rainbow University is not where a whole lot of right-thinking 18 YO wan’t to spend the best years of their life.
DKR stated that football games ‘are won by angry men’. The mere admission that football is a male dominated sport might get you fired in Austin. And God, to admit your angry will certainly require counseling. We had the best coaches in the country and nobody questioned that. That said, coach Zapalac dreamed up the ‘Junction Boys’. Coach Campbell was as aggressive as any player in practice. In fact, not a single one of them could stay at UT today, and that includes DKR.
Would you rather go to Tuscaloosa where football makes you a campus God or to Austin where you’d be smart to hide your football status? Or Stanford (same hallowed status) plus a 5* degree?
After 3 years of flower-life and enduring ridicule even the most talented and aggressive players begin to lose their edge. We have a DB (un-named to protect the aggressive) who would hit the other team bus in the parking lot who is no longer e stud or starter. Cosmi ‘isn’t playing his best football’ according to announcers. I doubt if he would argue that point.
Look around guys, it isn’t fun to hide your talent and have to turn into an “ANGRY MAN” twelve Saturdays in autumn.
I certainly don’t blame the Brockermeyers for choosing ‘Bama. I played with a dozen men who would make the same decision today if faced with the current crap.
Hell, we have a band, a DAMN BAND, that is too offended to play the alma mater.
Look around folks. The answer is hiding in plain sight.
I truly wish I was wrong. If so, there might be a fix somewhere. But when the problem is systemic repulsion of everything football requires nobody is likely to want to waste the best years of their life on it. A pretty campus and cute hills are really cool for awhile, but that wears off till you become embarrassed to walk across the Strawberry Fields.
 
Not going to really debate what people think they have been a victim of, but i'd be curious to note what polices, ordinance, whatever in the places these players are from that instituted these things to go against minorities. That's what systemic racism would be.

Another media and Democrat buzz word.
 
I agree that the players singling out the song was a mistake.
I'm not arguing the right or wrong of it, I just think it pulls attention from more serious topics.
I think the university has begun to address it correctly, however.
They are doing a detailed study on the history of the song.
Then it can be presented to the players in a way that they can't intellectually still see the song itself as racist.
This protest about the song has been going on for years.
It was just amplified this season because of current events.
I think it's good that time is spent on research and then on conversation and bring it to a conclusion.
 
This turned West Mall quick. “ Longhorn football” is where all Longhorn fans can unite no matter what differences we all have. If a player is not giving his all because of his perceived injustices then we don’t need him. Likewise if a fan is hoping we lose because of perceived injustices then I’m not supportive.
It’s hard enough to defend and battle all the other schools hatred towards us much less from within. The season is in full steam and we are still in the hunt. Ehlinger is obviously banged up as are others but they are still fighting hard while they are wearing Orange. They are finally hitting and seem over their hurt feelings —-so I am all in-(unless they get beat by Kansas lol).
 
moondog_LFZ said:
I agree that the players singling out the song was a mistake.
I'm not arguing the right or wrong of it, I just think it pulls attention from more serious topics.
I think the university has begun to address it correctly, however.
They are doing a detailed study on the history of the song.
Then it can be presented to the players in a way that they can't intellectually still see the song itself as racist.
This protest about the song has been going on for years.
It was just amplified this season because of current events.
I think it's good that time is spent on research and then on conversation and bring it to a conclusion.
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Is this a government study? How long will this research take? I mean, it seems important, couldn't a grad student knock this out in a week/weekend?
 
Zucker,

Remember that The University has put Reddick in charge of the committee, and probably paying him extra for it. Expect the study results the week after my funeral.
 
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