China Warns US to remove THAAD from South Korea

[mchammer]

Thanks. I've honestly never had much interest in Spain, but the wife has to go for work. Since the airfare for me was dirt cheap ($105 round trip), I figured I'd go. Still not totally sure what I'm going to do there.

Went to Spain 20 years ago. Ideas:
- Look for Roman ruins - they are everywhere in Spain
- Look for Moorish buildings
- After lunch, watch the bullfights in tv. One channel shows the main ring in Madrid, the other channel shows the "local" bullfight in one of the outlying cities.
- Have beer and tapas in th evening. I believe they have happy hour prices as most Spaniards eat out late (8-10 pm).

 

[iatrogenic]

Your second point is valid, the first point is erroneous as policy papers have been written on how to win a nuclear war.
Russia is in the process of deploying hypersonic missiles which can defeat our "shield" and thus put us back in a MAD scenario. The difference now, is there is even less room for error as the US has encroached on the rest of the world having deployed systems on nearly every continent. This has forced Russia and China into an arms race.
By knocking out Ghadafi and Saddam after each gave up their nuclear program, countries like Iran and North Korea are more motivated to obtain nukes fearing they'll be next if they don't have a deterrent.
The US bombed Korea into the Stone Age in the 1950s. Why would they trust us now?

If your simple reasoning is that the U.S. will attack a country because it doesn't have nuclear weapons, why aren't all countries trying to develop nukes? Maybe there is something else driving U.S. policy.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Went to Spain 20 years ago. Ideas:
- Look for Roman ruins - they are everywhere in Spain
- Look for Moorish buildings
- After lunch, watch the bullfights in tv. One channel shows the main ring in Madrid, the other channel shows the "local" bullfight in one of the outlying cities.
- Have beer and tapas in th evening. I believe they have happy hour prices as most Spaniards eat out late (8-10 pm).

Thanks for the pointers, MC. I watched the Rick Steves videos on Madrid and Sevilla (the areas where I'll be), and he largely agrees with you. The tricky part is going to be the night element. I'll be towing Deez, Jr. around, and eating and drinking at 9 or 10 pm is going to be tough (He's usually in bed by 8 pm.), though I hear that children frequently eat late in Spain with their parents. I'll do my best. Lol.

 

[Musburger1]

If your simple reasoning is that the U.S. will attack a country because it doesn't have nuclear weapons, why aren't all countries trying to develop nukes? Maybe there is something else driving U.S. policy.

If a country is already in the orbit of the US, the country is safe. If the government acts independently of the US (is not a puppet state) such as Equador, Bolivia, formerly Honduras, Cuba, Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc. then that country is a target for regime change.

I don't believe New Zealand is a nuclear State for example, but then New Zealand is in the US orbit. On the other hand Bolivia is not in the US orbit at this time and color revolutions are always a possibility. In the case of Syria, when the color revolution failed, the US and our dictator run allies in the Gulf sent in jihadis to overthrow Assad. In the case of Libya, same thing.
North Korea is harder to penetrate with proxies so we threaten continually with war games. They counter with massive military spending and nukes.

 

[Htown77]

Funny you bring up New Zealand. New Zealand was NOT in US "orbit" from the 80s until Obama made peace with them. New Zealand established a nuclear free zone, would not allow US nuclear subs to dock, and the US cut military ties. Despite really poor relations, the US did not seek regime change.

Iran attacked our embassy, took hostages and has been anti-US. North Korea consistently threatens to nuke their neighbors and started the Korean War in the first place. Cuba pointed nukes at the US in the sixties and continues to try and destabilize central and south america supporting groups like FARC. Syria is a massive all around disaster that is the birthplace of ISIS. These are not countries merely acting independent.

 

[Musburger1]

Funny you bring up New Zealand. New Zealand was NOT in US "orbit" from the 80s until Obama made peace with them. New Zealand established a nuclear free zone, would not allow US nuclear subs to dock, and the US cut military ties. Despite really poor relations, the US did not seek regime change.

Iran attacked our embassy, took hostages and has been anti-US. North Korea consistently threatens to nuke their neighbors and started the Korean War in the first place. Cuba pointed nukes at the US in the sixties and continues to try and destabilize central and south america supporting groups like FARC. Syria is a massive all around disaster that is the birthplace of ISIS. These are not countries merely acting independent.

I would like to know the back story on Obama and New Zealand. He must have either offered or threatened something to change status.

The three examples you gave, Cuba, Iran, and North Korea all had adversarial relationships with the US before the time frame you insinuated to be the trigger point.

Prior to Cuba importing nukes, the US had tried to assassinate Castro and well before Castro's revolution, the US has meddled in Cuba's affairs and installed a puppet.

The US had also enabled a coup in Iran and installed a brutal puppet dictator (the Shah) along with the British. The Iranian Revolution was a backlash from that. Hezbollah launched a suicide bomb on US marine barracks in Lebanon which was part of their retaliation. This is where most Americans consider as the beginning of the relationship with Iran choosing to ignore the decades preceding this.

Kim Jung-on is a nut job for sure, but keep in mind the US carpet bombed North Korea in the early 1950's, leveled nearly every village, destroyed dams, and the result was 20% of the population died directly or indirectly. All of this resulted because the US didn't want communism to spread.

 

[Htown77]

North Korea invaded South Korea and continues to be the aggressor. They launched an artillery strike on a south korean island a few years ago.

 

[Musburger1]

It never was our fight. At least, it never should have been. We needlessly lost several thousand men.

 

[mchammer]

Thanks for the pointers, MC. I watched the Rick Steves videos on Madrid and Sevilla (the areas where I'll be), and he largely agrees with you. The tricky part is going to be the night element. I'll be towing Deez, Jr. around, and eating and drinking at 9 or 10 pm is going to be tough (He's usually in bed by 8 pm.), though I hear that children frequently eat late in Spain with their parents. I'll do my best. Lol.

Forgot to mention that the local bullfights have more color than Madrid. Obviously, Moorish architecture is only in southern Spain. The Roman city outside of Seville was awesome. Yes, kids will be out late too (though I went in summer when school was out). Try to make best of the situation and grind through it. LOL.

 

[iatrogenic]

I would like to know the back story on Obama and New Zealand. He must have either offered or threatened something to change status.

The three examples you gave, Cuba, Iran, and North Korea all had adversarial relationships with the US before the time frame you insinuated to be the trigger point.

Prior to Cuba importing nukes, the US had tried to assassinate Castro and well before Castro's revolution, the US has meddled in Cuba's affairs and installed a puppet.

The US had also enabled a coup in Iran and installed a brutal puppet dictator (the Shah) along with the British. The Iranian Revolution was a backlash from that. Hezbollah launched a suicide bomb on US marine barracks in Lebanon which was part of their retaliation. This is where most Americans consider as the beginning of the relationship with Iran choosing to ignore the decades preceding this.

Kim Jung-on is a nut job for sure, but keep in mind the US carpet bombed North Korea in the early 1950's, leveled nearly every village, destroyed dams, and the result was 20% of the population died directly or indirectly. All of this resulted because the US didn't want communism to spread.

"Orbit"? That is even dumb for you.

Communism, at least the kind practiced by todays communist dictators, sucks. The standard of living in North Korea and Cuba is horrible. Russian living standards are horrible. The Islamic terrorist running Iran is a murderous, terrorism sponsoring, woman hating, nutbag. Assad is a murderer. Che Guevara should have kept his Marxist *** in Cuba and not gone to Bolivia. Why should we let communism "spread", and how is it spread? That's right, by overthrowing existing governments.

You are uninformed about the deposed Shah of Iran as well as the reason for the Ayatollah's rise to power. You ignore the brutal actions of Ghadafi and Saddam. Most importantly, you fail to recognize that these dictators, communists, and cult leaders are the scourge of humanity. These thugs only care about holding on to power, and trying to gain a nuclear foothold will allow them to continue to spread misery. Unfortunately for them, the world recognizes how mentally unstable these losers are, and, unfortunately for Marxist loving, uneducated people such as yourself, the U.S. is willing to stop them.

 

[Musburger1]

Your ignorance is unmatched.
Because these countries have systems you disapprove of, we should use our military to destroy their population, whether or not there is any American interests at stake? That seems to be what you believe. Hitler would have loved you.

 

[iatrogenic]

Your ignorance is unmatched.
Because these countries have systems you disapprove of, we should use our military to destroy their population, whether or not there is any American interests at stake? That seems to be what you believe. Hitler would have loved you.

Try and keep up commie. We disapprove of the systems because they are inhumane. We don't destroy populations. Dictators, commies and religious zealots do. We destroy those leaders. American interests are at stake.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Try and keep up commie. We disapprove of the systems because they are inhumane. We don't destroy populations. Dictators, commies and religious zealots do. We destroy those leaders. American interests are at stake.

You're wasting your time, Bro.

 

[Musburger1]

Try and keep up commie. We disapprove of the systems because they are inhumane. We don't destroy populations. Dictators, commies and religious zealots do. We destroy those leaders. American interests are at stake.

When the US engulfed Vietnam with chemicals and dropped more bombs than in all WWII what is the correct terminology? Love bombs?
When the US imposed embargoes on the populations of Iraq and later Syria causing the death of hundreds of thousands of innocents, this was done to free the people right? Using depleted Uranium which is causing birth defects and cancers at astronomical rates, leaving areas contaminated for the next several million years is just swell. You are a lunatic.

 

[iatrogenic]

When the US engulfed Vietnam with chemicals and dropped more bombs than in all WWII what is the correct terminology? Love bombs?
When the US imposed embargoes on the populations of Iraq and later Syria causing the death of hundreds of thousands of innocents, this was done to free the people right? Using depleted Uranium which is causing birth defects and cancers at astronomical rates, leaving areas contaminated for the next several million years is just swell. You are a lunatic.

Speaking of uranium, what's up with Chernobyl and Kyshtym these days?
Here is the alternative, and this is just the estimated murders/deaths caused by communist regimes:

• 65 million in the People's Republic of China

• 20 million in the Soviet Union

• 2 million in Cambodia

• 2 million in North Korea

• 1.7 million in Ethiopia

• 1.5 million in Afghanistan

• 1 million in the Eastern Bloc

• 1 million in Vietnam

• 150,000 in Latin America

• 10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power."

 

[Musburger1]

Speaking of uranium, what's up with Chernobyl and Kyshtym these days?
Here is the alternative, and this is just the estimated murders/deaths caused by communist regimes:

• 65 million in the People's Republic of China

• 20 million in the Soviet Union

• 2 million in Cambodia

• 2 million in North Korea

• 1.7 million in Ethiopia

• 1.5 million in Afghanistan

• 1 million in the Eastern Bloc

• 1 million in Vietnam

• 150,000 in Latin America

• 10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power."

So adding to that total is an alternative? We killed more Vietnamese and Koreans than the Comminists did. Pol Pot happened as a result of US interference. It can be argued that the Communist Revolution in China was triggered by decades of imperial colonization by the British. Your logic is simply amazing.

 

[Brad Austin]

Was only a matter of time until that fat lil nutjob made threats towards China after DT persuaded Xi to turn up the pressure.

"North Korean state media criticized China directly Wednesday, saying its “reckless remarks” on the North’s nuclear program was testing its patience and could trigger unspecified “grave” consequences.

A commentary released by the state-run Korean Central News Agency said that "a string of absurd and reckless remarks are now heard from China everyday only to render the present bad situation tenser."

The article cited commentaries by Chinese state media that it said shifted the blame for deteriorating bilateral relations onto the North and raised "lame excuses for the base acts of dancing to the tune of the U.S."

"China should no longer try to test the limits of the DPRK's patience," the North Korean commentary said. "China had better ponder over the grave consequences to be entailed by its reckless act of chopping down the pillar of the DPRK-China relations."

 

[Htown77]

^ this is why i said the nukes were more of a deterrent against China for North Korea than against the west. North Korea sees the writing on the wall that Japan, South Korea and the west is more valuable to China long term than Backwards Korea.

 

[Musburger1]

The situation is fluid. My hunch is that China genuinely believes the US will launch an attack if Kim refuses to dismantle the nuclear program. Did you know China and North Korea have a treaty good through 2021 where China is obligated to defend North Korea if they are attacked?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-North_Korean_Mutual_Aid_and_Cooperation_Friendship_Treaty

"The treaty was signed in Beijing and came into effect on September 10 of the same year.[2][3]Premier of the People's Republic of ChinaZhou Enlai and Prime Minister of North KoreaKim Il-sung signed for their respective countries.[4] The treaty generally promoted peaceful cooperation in the areas of culture, economics, technology and other social benefits between the two nations.[4] Specifically, Article 2 of the treaty declares the two nations guarantee to adopt immediately all necessary measures to oppose any country or coalition of countries that might attack either nation.[5]"

 

[Htown77]

Did you know China and North Korea have a treaty good through 2021 where China is obligated to defend North Korea if they are attacked?

If North Korea does not cooperate with China, that treaty is about as meaningful at Hitler's nonaggression pact with Russia.

 

[Garmel]

That idiot doesn't realize China could squash him like a bug, does he?

 

[Musburger1]

That idiot doesn't realize China could squash him like a bug, does he?

China can squash NK economically, but they would never attack militarily. A couple NK nukes could do quite a bit of damage to Eastern China.

 

[iatrogenic]

So adding to that total is an alternative? We killed more Vietnamese and Koreans than the Comminists did. Pol Pot happened as a result of US interference. It can be argued that the Communist Revolution in China was triggered by decades of imperial colonization by the British. Your logic is simply amazing.

You suffer from Splitting in case you were wondering.

 

[Musburger1]

You suffer from Splitting in case you were wondering.

And you suffer from psychological projection.

 

[Dionysus]

Try and keep up commie.

You are a lunatic.

Commies and lunatics. This must be the West Mall.

 

[iatrogenic]

 

[Mr. Deez]

Forgot to mention that the local bullfights have more color than Madrid. Obviously, Moorish architecture is only in southern Spain. The Roman city outside of Seville was awesome. Yes, kids will be out late too (though I went in summer when school was out). Try to make best of the situation and grind through it. LOL.

So MC, I got very delayed at the car rental place and missed on my chance to eat real food for my first meal in Spain. The bad news is that I had to eat at McDonalds. Pathetic. The good news is that in Spain McDonald's serves beer.

 

[UTChE96]

Ah Mcdonalds, the universal constant. I use to work 4 week rotational shifts at a remote international location. The food at the camp was pretty awful and bland. On my trip home, I would connect through Amsterdam Schiphol airport. I am not proud of this, but I would usually make a beeline for the McDonalds and love every bite of that quarter pounder with cheese. I have usually found that American fast food restaurants such as McD and BK are much better in other countries for some reason.

 

[ProdigalHorn]

That idiot doesn't realize China could squash him like a bug, does he?

I'm pretty sure he lives in a different reality from the rest of the universe.

I have usually found that American fast food restaurants such as McD and BK are much better in other countries for some reason

If you're anything like me, you probably enjoy it a lot more when you need a taste of home. A KFC driving down I35 wouldn't get a second look from me, but one walking around Manila... that's another story. (Although they have Jollybee there, and that's actually not bad.)

 

[UTChE96]

If you're anything like me, you probably enjoy it a lot more when you need a taste of home. A KFC driving down I35 wouldn't get a second look from me, but one walking around Manila... that's another story. (Although they have Jollybee there, and that's actually not bad.)

A lot of truth to that. Definite comfort factor.