Cancelling Student Debt

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

Here is a race hustling Demx rep from Fla bemoaning requiring students to repay their loans.
https://thehill.com/opinion/congres...ourts-supreme-injustice-to-student-borrowers/

She first argues that a college education is "a central tenet of the American Dream."
So according to her we sucker teenagers to walk the plank and jump into a pool with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt that will drown folks for life.
The average payment on a student loan in 2021 was $200-$299/ month. The average length of loan is 20 years. According to Forbes college graduates earn 1.2 million MORE(2.8 million vs 1.6) than those without a degree.
Obviously these are just averages BUT someone who makes over a million more should be able to pay $60,000 spread over 20 years.
Why have so many been able to repay their loans? So for most it isn't the amount of the loan or the time to repay it. What is the difference?
I use the term "Most" since there will be some with circumstances that should make their loans forgiveable,
Funny so far all we've seen or heard from is people who should and can make payments but are whining for freebies.

Here's how "responsible" people handle this. I paid for half of my son's college while he got student loans for the other half. He came out with his degree and about $65K in loan debt. Our agreement going in was that if he graduated, he gets a job and lives at home while paying a large chunk of his salary on loan debt. If he didn't get his degree he's on his own to flounder around and figure it out.

He had trouble finding a job out of college in his field so he got a job at HEB just to have income and start paying while also looking for a "permanent job". Right now he's paying about $1,400 a month toward his loans and is now down to roughly $50k in his first year. Looks like he's on the verge of getting a better job which means he can increase his loan payment and be debt free within 4 years all while living rent free at our house.

I get not everyone has this type of option, but I would suggest the vast majority do. With self discipline and teamwork it can be done. General Americans should not be footing the bill for lazy people who just don't want to pay for their 4-10 years of college play time.

 

[Horn6721]

Vol
That is amazing. That he has put paying off loan ahead of everything else.
He is making sacrifices now,
We all know people who are living a "faster" more expensive life who are complaining about paying back their debt.
Ya done good raisin him up.

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

Vol
That is amazing. That he has put paying off loan ahead of everything else.
He is making sacrifices now,
We all know people who are living a "faster" more expensive life who are complaining about paying back their debt.
Ya done good raisin him up.

Thanks! I'm lucky I have his inability to speak to women on my side. The fact that he is single and isn't even really looking is helping a lot. Don't think I could have a wife living here too.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Thanks! I'm lucky I have his inability to speak to women on my side. The fact that he is single and isn't even really looking is helping a lot. Don't think I could have a wife living here too.

It's not too bad. My oldest and his wife have been living with us on an agreement quite similar to yours. They had already paid off her student loans (he had a full ride) but they struggled to save for a house while also paying ridiculous rental rates in crappy neighborhoods near Manor.

We charged a nominal amount of rent, they hyper-saved so they could afford a full 20% downpayment on their first home, and they finally found one on which they will close before the end of this month. I am very pleased to have helped them avoid the evil that is PMI, and it was nice having them with us the last two years.

 

[nashhorn]

Don't think I could have a wife living here too.

You could and my suspicion is that if necessary, you would.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I'm okay with that as long as working class people don't shoulder the burden. The banks and universities should bear 100% of that cost. I would even be for reducing salaries of politicians who wrote the bills or pushed them into being law, for the purpose of covering expenses. But plumbers, welders, electricians, garbage men, etc shouldn't be touched by this at all.

I agree totally. I'm getting a lot of flack for being willing to do at least some form of debt forgiveness, but I would never do it unless there was a total overhaul of higher ed and if the forgiveness was funded by those who made the money off the racket. If you do it without reform, you make the problem much worse than it already is. If you fund it through the current tax system on individuals and businesses, you work a profound injustice. Those two requirements are totally nonnegotiable for me, which means it'll never happen.

 

[Horn6721]

Mr D
I now understand and believe you are right on needing reform.
I also understand slightly why You think some forgiveness now is necessary.
I understand your view
BUT I absolutely disagree completely that anyone with a current loan they willingly signed should be forgiven even $1.00 of that loan.
It looks like most of the rest agree
so maybe it is time to move on?

 

[Mr. Deez]

Mr D
I now understand and believe you are right on needing reform.
I also understand slightly why You think some forgiveness now is necessary.
I understand your view
BUT I absolutely disagree completely that anyone with a current loan they willingly signed should be forgiven even $1.00 of that loan.
It looks like most of the rest agree
so maybe it is time to move on?

That's fine. We've beaten this dead horse plenty. lol

 

[Horn6721]

But your opinion holds a teeny tiny microscopic infinitesible bit of merit.
I also notice you aren't among the ones whining to get your loan forgiven.

 

[Mr. Deez]

But your opinion holds a teeny tiny microscopic infinitesible bit of merit.
I also notice you aren't among the ones whining to get your loan forgiven.

True, but I'm not a good comparison. I went to college in the mid to late '90s and to law school in the early 2000s. I borrowed $2,500 for my freshman year of college, and it more than covered my tuition. I didn't need loans beyond that. It was cheap enough that my job with the legislature and my parents' help was more than adequate.

Law school cost much more, so I took out loans. However, it was chump change compared to what it is now. One year at Baylor Law is now just under $62K. I paid a little under $45K for all three years. If you do the math, it's about 2 and half times more expensive now, even accounting for inflation. Pretty rough.

If I was in the same situation now, I would either hold out for UT (where I was waitlisted) or go to Tech (accepted me) or South Texas College of Law (accepted me with half scholarship). Nothing wrong with those schools, but neither (except UT) are as good as Baylor. (UH also accepted me, but they're too expensive for what they are. SMU and their 39 percent Bar passage rate rejected me - not even waitlisted, so they can **** all the way off.)

 

[Horn6721]

Ok Then Deez
You are OK with us.
And I know you are relieved.

 

[mchammer]

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

So if I buy a Toyota Tacoma that has a sticker of 25k, and I paid 30k for it, financed it at ****** terms, i have shown no proof of being able to make the payments....you guys think Toyota is at fault here?

They're in business partly to skin the suckers that walk on the lot. As a consumer you need to take responsibility. That means walking away from ****** deals. If enough people walked away, universities would have had to reduce their tuition and fees. It's that simple. Supply and demand.

I'm fully aware MANY of those taking the loans wanted to postpone their adulthood. Another year to not work, not pursuing a professional life nor preparing for a career. That was the goal of quite a few. They never thought they'd have to pay the loan back, just like the credit card debt they rang up.

Pay up, is all I have to say

 

[mchammer]

So if I buy a Toyota Tacoma that has a sticker of 25k, and I paid 30k for it, financed it at ****** terms, i have shown no proof of being able to make the payments....you guys think Toyota is at fault here?

They're in business partly to skin the suckers that walk on the lot. As a consumer you need to take responsibility. That means walking away from ****** deals. If enough people walked away, universities would have had to reduce their tuition and fees. It's that simple. Supply and demand.

I'm fully aware MANY of those taking the loans wanted to postpone their adulthood. Another year to not work, not pursuing a professional life nor preparing for a career. That was the goal of quite a few. They never thought they'd have to pay the loan back, just like the credit card debt they rang up.

Pay up, is all I have to say

Your analogy is wrong. If the buyer pays $30k for a $25k car but in reality the car is only worth $5k due to faulty manufacturing by Toyota, then yes you sue Toyota. The point is universities are selling hamburger but advertising it as filet mignon. It’s false advertising.

 

[guy4321]

The federal government should not be handing out loans to colleges or universities. Banks should be because they'll look if the requester has a shot at making the payments. Engineering students probably are all 'approved' while gender studies majors are probably all 'denied.' Then the universities start dropping stupid majors as attendance in them approaches zero.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

Your analogy is wrong. If the buyer pays $30k for a $25k car but in reality the car is only worth $5k due to faulty manufacturing by Toyota, then yes you sue Toyota. The point is universities are selling hamburger but advertising it as filet mignon. It’s false advertising.

Not fully true. A doctor or lawyer is going to borrow a shitload more than the 'gender studies' major. Neither you nor I know the existing split.

These loans need to be paid by the borrowers. Period

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

The point is universities are selling hamburger but advertising it as filet mignon. It’s false advertising.

And in the case of "Fill-in-the-blank Studies" programs, the schools are selling rancid, moldy hamburger with a side of botulism.

 

[mchammer]

Not fully true. A doctor or lawyer is going to borrow a shitload more than the 'gender studies' major. Neither you nor I know the existing split.

These loans need to be paid by the borrowers. Period

Wrong again! Both sides are culpable in a bad deal. That is how deals work. The only question is who has the better legal team and the politicians on their side.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

Wrong again! Both sides are culpable in a bad deal. That is how deals work. The only question is who has the better legal team and the politicians on their side.

Not wrong. Example.. REPs (electric companies) charge consumers several times more than cost. But you and I have no choice but to pay for it unless electricity isn't your thing

You and deez both need to look around. Many things you pay for on a daily basis would be "a bad deal" in your book yet you pay for it. It's free enterprise.

In the end, it's your choice to purchase or not

 

[Facing Addiction]

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

You could and my suspicion is that if necessary, you would.

You're probably right. My secret plan is once he gets within a year of paying off his loans I'll start putting the bug in his ear to save up for a condo or something. He doesn't want a house to maintain, but I need him to understand that owning property is important and in the long term more cost effective and and is an investment with a return.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Not wrong. Example.. REPs (electric companies) charge consumers several times more than cost. But you and I have no choice but to pay for it unless electricity isn't your thing

You and deez both need to look around. Many things you pay for on a daily basis would be "a bad deal" in your book yet you pay for it. It's free enterprise.

In the end, it's your choice to purchase or not

The minute the universities claim nonprofit status and take taxpayer money, it stops being free enterprise.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

The minute the universities claim nonprofit status and take taxpayer money, it stops being free enterprise.

Then it's a bad deal?

Run away. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to sign on the dotted line

 

[Mr. Deez]

Then it's a bad deal?

Run away. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to sign on the dotted line

Rarely is anyone holding a gun to anyone's head, but when there's fraud, deception, and price-rigging, we don't usually take the "buyer beware" approach. The only reason nobody's getting sued or going to prison is that the government is a conspirator in the fraud, deception, and price-rigging.

And of course, the big winners in this racket are rich leftists who indoctrinate young people and fund Democratic politicians. You don't mean to help them, but you help them.

 

[Monahorns]

If you want to be anything but a plumber or electrician you have to have a college degree. More people should go into the trades, but that still isn't the right choice for many. The price of college needs to be fixed so getting a history degree doesn't ruin your life.

 

[lkainer]

Here's how "responsible" people handle this. I paid for half of my son's college while he got student loans for the other half. He came out with his degree and about $65K in loan debt. Our agreement going in was that if he graduated, he gets a job and lives at home while paying a large chunk of his salary on loan debt. If he didn't get his degree he's on his own to flounder around and figure it out.

He had trouble finding a job out of college in his field so he got a job at HEB just to have income and start paying while also looking for a "permanent job". Right now he's paying about $1,400 a month toward his loans and is now down to roughly $50k in his first year. Looks like he's on the verge of getting a better job which means he can increase his loan payment and be debt free within 4 years all while living rent free at our house.

I get not everyone has this type of option, but I would suggest the vast majority do. With self discipline and teamwork it can be done. General Americans should not be footing the bill for lazy people who just don't want to pay for their 4-10 years of college play time.

My wife and I agreed that we would maintain our college "lifestyle" (or lack of one) until we paid off all student loans. Living cheap can solve a lot of financial problems.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

Rarely is anyone holding a gun to anyone's head, but when there's fraud, deception, and price-rigging, we don't usually take the "buyer beware" approach. The only reason nobody's getting sued or going to prison is that the government is a conspirator in the fraud, deception, and price-rigging.

And of course, the big winners in this racket are rich leftists who indoctrinate young people and fund Democratic politicians. You don't mean to help them, but you help them.

I'm not sure what the margins on chips and assembly are now, but if you bought a TV, microwave, air conditioner, automobile, etc 20 years ago, you experienced fraud, deception, price rigging.

If people had not reached for the financial nose candy (student loans) en masse for 2 years, the costs would have come down greatly. The consumer holds the power, s/he just doesn't utilize it

 

[Mr. Deez]

I'm not sure what the margins on chips and assembly are now, but if you bought a TV, microwave, air conditioner, automobile, etc 20 years ago, you experienced fraud, deception, price rigging.

Dude, it's not the same at all. People charge what they can in those businesses like they do in all businesses. It's their job to do that. Colleges aren't "businesses." They are tax-exempt nonprofit or government institutions. Furthermore, there isn't a big taxpayer-funded marketing effort telling people from the time they're 5 years old until they're 18 that they effectively can't live a decent life if they don't buy what those businesses are selling. Spin it how you want, but this really is a unique transaction.

If people had not reached for the financial nose candy (student loans) en masse for 2 years, the costs would have come down greatly. The consumer holds the power, s/he just doesn't utilize it

Collectively, the consumer holds the ultimate power, but consumers buy these things on an individual level, and individually they have no leverage to negotiate prices, especially with the government putting its weight on the scales in the universities' favor. If I had gone to Baylor Law and said, "$15K per year is too high, but I'll happily pay $12K," they would have laughed in my face. The reason why is that they have the leverage. They may need students to survive, but individually, I needed them more than they needed me. So they called the shots on the cost.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

If you want to be anything but a plumber or electrician you have to have a college degree. More people should go into the trades, but that still isn't the right choice for many. The price of college needs to be fixed so getting a history degree doesn't ruin your life.

Plumbing
Electrician
Carpenter
HVAC
Roofer
Auto repair/service
Body Tech (autos again)
Road construction/repair
Heavy equipment operator
Mortuary/Embalmer
Bartender
Driver (big trucks or small commercial vehicles)


That's just a few occupations off the top of my head that wouldn't require a college degree, though some do require at least the equivalent of an Associate's.

 

[utahorn]

I got married less than a year after enlisting in the Air Force. Best two decisions I ever made. I eventually got my degree in Finance, partly through the Military, Civilian and my own dollars. No crying from me to have any of you bail me out of debt. Why would I? As a responsible adult, I incurred debt and should be responsible for repaying that debt. BTW, I graduated with zero college debt. Parting lifestyle after graduation. and debit free.