Can anyone justify NOT having the Wall?

[Mr. Deez]

A Mexican immigrant who was released by Chicago authorities despite ICE telling them not to, went on to rape a 3-year-old girl in a McDonald's bathroom as she cried ''daddy, daddy.” ​

Mexican immigrant released by authorities despite ICE warning 'went on to rape three-year-old girl' | Daily Mail Online

But it won't be a big story in the US, so Chicago officials won't take any heat for it.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I recall reading about this issue many years ago with a scenario wherein illegal immigrants enter the US and the mother is pregnant. I seem to recall if she gave birth inside the US the parents could not be deported since the child was born in the US and thus considered a (de facto) US citizen. This result seemed to reward the parents' malfeasance (illegally entering the country) merely due to the act of the child's birth occurring within the borders of the US. What I do not know, under the preceding set of facts, is the family kept in a detention camp, or are they provided benefits as if they are US citizens. How about a pregnant woman, her husband 3-4 kids under the age of 12 and she gives birth in the US? Does everyone stay? Seems like, I also recall, if they were sent back, Mexico would not accept them since they had no proof they were Mexican citizens. Anyone have any insight on this? These are issues and reasons why I had no desire to study or practice Immigration Law.

Those who are illegal can still be deported even if they have children who are US citizens. However, the deportation authorities understand the dilemma and try not to prioritize deporting people in this situation, so yes, the system does incentivize malfeasance. Can they get benefits? Yes and no. The parents can't directly get welfare, but they can get welfare that's designed to benefit the children, which is a lot. Accordingly, mom will be able to have babies on Medicaid. WIC and food stamps will be available to the kids. Kids will be allowed to attend public schools for free. If they're creative, they can also hustle the EIC.

If the parents actually do get deported (which does happen especially if one of the parents is caught doing something criminal), the US citizen children will either stay with family or enter the foster care system. It's a bad situation.

 

[LongestHorn]

How is that not a violation of the 1997 Flores agreement?

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

The Flores act doesn't address US citizen children.
The Supremes held that:
"alien juveniles detained on suspicion of being deportable may be released only to a parent, legal guardian, or other related adult."

 

[Joe Fan]

But it won't be a big story in the US, so Chicago officials won't take any heat for it.

Apparently liberals consider the act of reporting this type crime fact/statistic to be racism in and of itself. So they ignore it, pretend it never happened. They do this with a lot of things.

 

[BevoJoe]

Those who are illegal can still be deported even if they have children who are US citizens. However, the deportation authorities understand the dilemma and try not to prioritize deporting people in this situation, so yes, the system does incentivize malfeasance. Can they get benefits? Yes and no. The parents can't directly get welfare, but they can get welfare that's designed to benefit the children, which is a lot. Accordingly, mom will be able to have babies on Medicaid. WIC and food stamps will be available to the kids. Kids will be allowed to attend public schools for free. If they're creative, they can also hustle the EIC.

If the parents actually do get deported (which does happen especially if one of the parents is caught doing something criminal), the US citizen children will either stay with family or enter the foster care system. It's a bad situation.

Thanks for the clarification Deez. Your explanation connected the dots. What I know about Immigration Law and procedure wouldn't fill a thimble, but it's probably just enough to be dangerous.

 

[Horn6721]

Mr D
The best solution would seem that children go with their parents wherever their parents go.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Mr D
The best solution would seem that children go with their parents wherever their parents go.

I agree, but we can't deport a US citizen.

 

[Horn6721]

?? WE would not be deporting them. The parents would be taking their children with them.

 

[Mr. Deez]

?? WE would not be deporting them. The parents would be taking their children with them.

If the child or its legal guardian has no choice in the matter, then it's a deportation.

 

[Monahorns]

That is why law is so limited. Common sense says the child goes with the parents. It makes sense that we don't deport citizens, but there are always cases where the law as written doesn't make sense.

 

[Mr. Deez]

That is why law is so limited. Common sense says the child goes with the parents. It makes sense that we don't deport citizens, but there are always cases where the law as written doesn't make sense.

Well, to be more precise, we're applying an overbroad law to a situation that the law's authors never anticipated. The birthright citizenship clause was intended to eliminate the states' ability to deny citizenship to freed slaves, but they also wanted to deny the states a role in determining citizenship in general.

What they didn't anticipate is that we'd have a 40-year period in which we would have legal roadblocks to residency and citizenship but de facto open borders. Ultimately that is what led to this dilemma.

 

[Horn6721]

The parents have a choice vis a vis their child. If they have children they brought illegally into our country they can't leave them here. Why would it be any different for a child born here ? Children belong in most cases with their parents.

 

[Mr. Deez]

The parents have a choice vis a vis their child. If they have children they brought illegally into our country they can't leave them here. Why would it be any different for a child born here ? Children belong in most cases with their parents.

You're making the argument for why parents shouldn't illegally move to the US and why it's bad judgment. However, none of that has any legal bearing on our ability to deport the child who is a US citizen.

Yes, children are generally kept with parents. However, when the parents are forcibly moved somewhere, we don't usually require the children to go with them if they aren't also subject to that same removal. For example, if a parent is thrown in the slammer, we don't toss the kids in the slammer to keep them together. We put them with other family or foster care. Same thing happens with deportation.

Also, it isn't necessarily the parent's choice to bring the kids home. It depends on the citizenship laws in the parent's home country.

 

[Horn6721]

Are there any countries who would not allow a child of a parent in?

 

[Monahorns]

Parents should have ultimate sovereignty over their children. If they are getting deported they should be able to decide if they come with them or stay in the country with someone else.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Are there any countries who would not allow a child of a parent in?

In some situations, probably so. Obviously most illegal aliens are Mexicans, and this isn't a problem there, because Mexico recognizes dual citizenship. The child can be a US citizen for being born in the US and a Mexican citizen for being born to Mexican parents and can go to Mexico.

However, there are countries that don't have dual citizenship. Accordingly, if the child is born a US citizen, he may not be a citizen of his parent's nation. Does that mean he never can become one? No, but it's not automatic. The parents can't just show up and bring their kid back.

 

[Joe Fan]

" ... least 328 Chinese nationals who attempted to enter the United States illegally since January have now been caught by US Customs and Border Protection officials."​

328 Chinese nationals caught entering US illegally

 

[Horn6721]

Mr D
So you are saying a family native to a country could not go back to their country and bring their child with them!
Which country?

 

[Mr. Deez]

Mr D
So you are saying a family native to a country could not go back to their country and bring their child with them!
Which country?

I'm not saying they definitely cannot. I'm saying that it isn't automatic. They would have to apply and wait (and possibly be denied), and the child would have to renounce his US citizenship. As for which country, it's going to vary according to specifics, but it's going to be an issue for any country that doesn't recognize dual citizenship. Cuba, China, Venezuela are examples, but there are many more.

 

[Horn6721]

Actually that does not seem to be true MrD. Apparently it is automatic

"According to the U.S. Embassy, “The Government of Cuba does not recognize the U.S. nationality of U.S. citizens who are Cuban-born or are the children of Cubanparents.” Yes, you read that right. Cuba’s government will label you a full-blown Cuban even if you were born on U.S. soil.

Venezuelan nationality law - Wikipedia
Citizenship by birth
A child born outside Venezuela to parents who are both Venezuelans by birth.

Child born in the U. S. to a Chinese Parent
According to the Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China, any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality.

 

[Austin_Bill]

I'd like for the wall to go across the US Mexican border and then turn and follow the California border.

 

[Joe Fan]

The Open Borders crowd has a new set up along the TX-Mexico line

 

[Mr. Deez]

Actually that does not seem to be true MrD. Apparently it is automatic

"According to the U.S. Embassy, “The Government of Cuba does not recognize the U.S. nationality of U.S. citizens who are Cuban-born or are the children of Cubanparents.” Yes, you read that right. Cuba’s government will label you a full-blown Cuban even if you were born on U.S. soil.

Venezuelan nationality law - Wikipedia
Citizenship by birth
A child born outside Venezuela to parents who are both Venezuelans by birth.

Child born in the U. S. to a Chinese Parent
According to the Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China, any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality.

I'm googling this stuff just like you are. I can't speak for what ever country in the world would do. I'm not sure how nations that reject dual citizenship would gravy citizenship to someone who already has foreign citizenship without that person rejecting that foreign citizenship. It doesn't add up.

However, even if every child born in the US could go to their parents home nations as citizens, I'm not going to be ok with deporting US citizens who have done nothing illegal or wrong. It would be unconstitutional.

 

[Horn6721]

• I am sure there are some countries that do not accept children not born in their country. The 3 you mentioned however do accord citizenship to children born of citizen.
• I agree.I have never said we should deport anchor babies . We should not deport citizens. But parents taking their children with them is not deporting. It is parents doing what most parents do and should do.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I am sure there are some countries that do not accept children not born in their country. The 3 you mentioned however do accord citizenship to children born of citizen.

That isn't the issue. The issue is whether or not they will accept them even after they have become US citizens. That's a separate matter. I'm not totally sure of the answer. I'm just saying that the lack of dual citizenship presents complications. It's not clean cut.

I agree.I have never said we should deport anchor babies . We should not deport citizens. But parents taking their children with them is not deporting. It is parents doing what most parents do and should do.

But is it always? Let's suppose you're a banana picker in Honduras and know that you'll basically never make more than about $12 per day and that your kid has no significant opportunity to break out of that cycle. However, suppose your kid can legally live in the US with a trusted aunt and uncle. They're not rich by US standards but are top two percent by Honduran standards. Your kid will complete school, have a chance to attend college, get a good job, and have a decent life. Is making the kid go live in a dump in Honduras and shovel **** for the rest of his life really the best thing for him? I think that's certainly debatable.

 

[Horn6721]

Can the aunt and uncle care for the child without any taxpayer assistance?
If so that is different than taxpayers being on the hook for all expenses of the child which I would bet is the case for most anchor babies left here.

 

[nashhorn]

If those idiots had any sense of humor they’d have a bottle of Corona in their hand.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Can the aunt and uncle care for the child without any taxpayer assistance?
If so that is different than taxpayers being on the hook for all expenses of the child which I would bet is the case for most anchor babies left here.

Is that the difference-maker? So if you're the parent, you'd have your US citizen child live in squalor and shovel **** for the rest of his life, because he might be on Medicaid for a few years if he stays in the US? I'm glad you're not my dad. Lol

 

[Horn6721]

Look it would be wonderful if we could lift every single person in the world out of squalor, We can't. This is a reality.So the illegal who snuck in and got deported goes back to whatever he/she did before like the other millions who did not break our laws.
I would rather our benefits go to people here rather than to take care of someone whose parents broke our law and gamed our system.