Can anyone justify NOT having the Wall?

Jorge Ramos wrote a piece in the NYT a couple days ago --

Trump Got His Wish. Mexico Is Now the Wall
" .... Mexico has effectively turned into an extension of Mr. Trump’s immigration police beyond American territory. And this is the case on multiple fronts: On the southern border with Guatemala, they prevent Central American migrants from coming into Mexico; on the northern one, they block those seeking entry to the United States from leaving. The decision of Mexico’s President Andrés Manuel López Obrador, also known as AMLO, to follow this approach is misguided. He should let migrants continue their journey north...."​

Opinion | Trump Got His Wish. Mexico Is Now the Wall.
 
iatrogenic said:
Are you referring to net savings to the U.S. or cost of construction?
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First, the projected total cost of construction since the project is underway.

Second, the savings to the US including reducing Border Patrol and other law enforcement costs if available.

Third, if the projection doesn't include the ongoing maintenance/repair cost, if you have a figure that would be good to have.

I realize these will be different projections, some very high some very low, so if you have a good source for the cost/savings, please include that as well.

Thanks!
 
The entire thread of the tweet is posted below because it is worse than just the headline Joe Fan posted.

Joe Fan said:
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Meet 37 year old Ibrahim Aljahim, a Muslim immigrant from Yemen, who was charged by the Wayne County Prosecutor’s Office for allegedly raping a disabled teenager outside of a high school in September. Aljahim is being charged on two counts of criminal sexual conduct in the first degree after he participated in oral sex with a disabled male student.

Aljahim was a school employee who reportedly used his position of authority to coerce the disabled student into these illicit homosexual actions. The student testified in court last week about his abuse. He claims that he and Aljahim performed oral sex on each other outside of Oakland International Academy’s high school in Hamtramack, MI.

Now let’s get personal with Aljahim. He is a well-known Democratic Party activist in the state who regularly hobknobs with the liberal elite. He has been seen in photographs next to failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, House Majority Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, Congressman Debbie Dingell, Congresswoman Andy Levin, and many others. He recently campaigned on behalf of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) during his recent appearance in Hamtramck. Aljahim is also a strong supporter of Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI), the socialist far-left. Both Aljahim and Tlaib support Sanders, as Tlaib was recently seen endorsing Sanders for President at a campaign rally in Detroit. Just thought you needed to get some real news that will never get mentioned."
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
The entire thread of the tweet is posted below because it is worse than just the headline Joe Fan posted.


Meet 37 year old Ibrahim Aljahim, a Muslim immigrant from Yemen, who was charged by the Wayne County Prosecutor’s Office for allegedly raping a disabled teenager outside of a high school in September. Aljahim is being charged on two counts of criminal sexual conduct in the first degree after he participated in oral sex with a disabled male student.

Aljahim was a school employee who reportedly used his position of authority to coerce the disabled student into these illicit homosexual actions. The student testified in court last week about his abuse. He claims that he and Aljahim performed oral sex on each other outside of Oakland International Academy’s high school in Hamtramack, MI.

Now let’s get personal with Aljahim. He is a well-known Democratic Party activist in the state who regularly hobknobs with the liberal elite. He has been seen in photographs next to failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, House Majority Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, Congressman Debbie Dingell, Congresswoman Andy Levin, and many others. He recently campaigned on behalf of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) during his recent appearance in Hamtramck. Aljahim is also a strong supporter of Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI), the socialist far-left. Both Aljahim and Tlaib support Sanders, as Tlaib was recently seen endorsing Sanders for President at a campaign rally in Detroit. Just thought you needed to get some real news that will never get mentioned."
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These last 5 years have certainly revealed that a lot of men use the Dem Party as cover for their various perversions.
 
Mr. Deez said:
It also helps if the trial judge admits that the guy has done her political favors and then dismisses the charges. Link.
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Wrong thread, but doesn't that taint the judge's finding? And why would prosecutors not object to that judge presiding over the case?

I'm not going to say this man is guilty, but those questions make me concerned that that trial wasn't fair.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
Wrong thread, but doesn't that taint the judge's finding? And why would prosecutors not object to that judge presiding over the case?

I'm not going to say this man is guilty, but those questions make me concerned that that trial wasn't fair.
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Wrong thread? You do know you can use the word "taint" in another thread, right? Lol

As for the case, it's a Democratic activist being charged with a crime in Detroit with a Democratic judge presiding. You do the math. It's not just taint. It's three-day-old taint in the summer with the AC broken.
 
DHS waives contracting laws in bid to speed up border wall construction

In a move to speed up the construction of 177 miles of a wall the U.S.-Mexico border, the Trump Administration is waiving a set of laws that applies to how the Dept of Homeland Security can work with federal contractors.

The 10 laws the waiver applies to stipulate that the department allow open competition for contracts, justify its contractor selections, and secure bonds that protect the government from financial loss should the project not be completed correctly, among other things.

"Under the president's leadership, we are building more wall, faster than ever before," the department said in a statement.
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Haste to get his pet gov't project done over reasonable oversight? Once again, when the rubber meets the road he's no conservative.
 
Vol Horn 4 Life said:
Let's be real clear that government oversight rarely and I would say practically never leads to higher quality and/or more fiscally conservative projects.
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1 out of 100 projects is fubar and likely corrupt. As a result, the remaining 99 projects suffer from over regulation that makes no sense. Get rid of the regulations and focus on auditing to find the corruption.
 
Vol Horn 4 Life said:
Let's be real clear that government oversight rarely and I would say practically never leads to higher quality and/or more fiscally conservative projects.
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mchammer said:
1 out of 100 projects is fubar and likely corrupt. As a result, the remaining 99 projects suffer from over regulation that makes no sense. Get rid of the regulations and focus on auditing to find the corruption.
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It might be possible to justify waiving some rules, but when open competition is waived, it's almost always for a sleazy reason and frequently ends up in litigation. You should be suspicious of this move, not excited about it. You won't be suspicious of it, because it's Trump, but you should be.
 
Mr. Deez said:
It might be possible to justify waiving some rules, but when open competition is waived, it's almost always for a sleazy reason and frequently ends up in litigation. You should be suspicious of this move, not excited about it. You won't be suspicious of it, because it's Trump, but you should be.
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My company allows for single sourced procurement with an exception request. Usually it goes to suppliers to have done the same or similar job within the past 2 years. I presume it is the case for the wall.
 
mchammer said:
My company allows for single sourced procurement with an exception request. Usually it goes to suppliers to have done the same or similar job within the past 2 years. I presume it is the case for the wall.
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Your company is not like the government. It's a private business that presumably is run by people trying the best deal for itself. The government is run by people who are largely apathetic about how good of a deal the taxpayer gets. If rules are in place, they'll generally follow them. However, if the rules are set aside, you invite corruption. Let's just be honest. If we were talking about Obama setting aside competitive bidding for a project you don't like (such as the Obamacare website), you would be critical and rightly so.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Your company is not like the government. It's a private business that presumably is run by people trying the best deal for itself. The government is run by people who are largely apathetic about how good of a deal the taxpayer gets. If rules are in place, they'll generally follow them. However, if the rules are set aside, you invite corruption. Let's just be honest. If we were talking about Obama setting aside competitive bidding for a project you don't like (such as the Obamacare website), you would be critical and rightly so.
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Not necessarily. I hate procurement. Rules are for dumb people. I would rather have a mechanism that punishes poor behavior that enacting rules that hurt the proficient. Lax procurement procedures is not the problem. The problem is that you can’t fire gov employees.
 
mchammer said:
Not necessarily. I hate procurement. Rules are for dumb people. I would rather have a mechanism that punishes poor behavior that enacting rules that hurt the proficient. Lax procurement procedures is not the problem. The problem is that you can’t fire gov employees.
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In government, you need rules, and you'd need them even if you could fire people more easily, because of the poor incentive structure. That's also why socialism would suck even if it was easy to fire government employees.
 
Govt procurement rules are a joke. A serious complicated innocuous joke. My experience is solely on the medical side so I shouldn’t be such a generalist about it but from my perspective there is not a ‘request for bid specs’ than mean anything (other than when written for a specific product).
So yes, while this setting aside of rules may be disturbing it can be understood in light of how unnecessarily burdensome the normal procurement process is.
 
nashhorn said:
Govt procurement rules are a joke. A serious complicated innocuous joke. My experience is solely on the medical side so I shouldn’t be such a generalist about it but from my perspective there is not a ‘request for bid specs’ than mean anything (other than when written for a specific product).
So yes, while this setting aside of rules may be disturbing it can be understood in light of how unnecessarily burdensome the normal procurement process is.
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Sometimes it can be understood. However, setting the rules aside should be a cause for great suspicion. Would we blindly grant thr benefit of the doubt if the parties were reversed? I wouldn't, and I don't believe you all would either.
 
If bidding rules are set aside there should be some kind of public documented justification for it.

Otherwise, the risk that Deez mentions is real. The project will be given to someone who is a friend of a politician, most likely as a result of money the politician has received as some form of contribution or will soon. Or the bid will go to someone who hires a friend or family member of a politician who doesn't have any of the skillset need for a lucrative position with the company.

Rick Perry did it with the toll road building company back when he was governor.
 
Sure it looks suspicious, but the truth is that even with standard procurement rules ‘friends’ get the bid, when a friend is a bidder.
 
nashhorn said:
Sure it looks suspicious, but the truth is that even with standard procurement rules ‘friends’ get the bid, when a friend is a bidder.
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Sometimes, yes. However, there is a bid protest process in place when that happens. If the rules are formally set aside, the non-corrupt contractors simply get screwed. And if you're cool with it, that's fine. Just don't complain about the government spending too much money on things.
 
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