Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Mr Deez- You are the voice of reason on this board if there ever was one. Please do wade into the waters.
BO :'Well Crusaders did it too'
- Thread starter Horn6721
- Start date
Croc
Do you think there are enough Muslims who would choose our form of government rules and laws over sharia?
In studies and polls done here and around the world of muslims asked said they prefer sharia law to be the recognized law of their country.
Right now muslims here is USA say they only want the civil aspects of sharia law. /which is fine except it is biased against women.
Other nation's muslims want stricter adherence.
read this link on a muslim coference I Norway and then tell me it is not disturbing.
especially this
"The “Peace Conference Scandinavia 2013,” was attended by 4,000 Muslims and featured nine speakers. One of the speakers explained that every one of the speakers – as well as the audience – would be labeled “extremists” by the media for believing in sharia punishments such as stoning of adulterers and homosexuals and believing that these practices should be implemented worldwide.
Declaring himself to be a “normal Muslim” (i.e., not of an extreme sect), the speaker then asked the audience if they consider themselves to be normal Muslims. After seeing all the participants’ hands raised in the affirmative, he declared,”It’s not that the speaker who we are inviting that has extreme radical views, as you (the media) say. These are general views that every Muslim genuinely has.”
This Iman asked for a show of hands at this conference on who believed it was ok to behead or kill homosexuals, adulterers apostates etc,
His point was that those views are not extreme, they are normal for most muslims.The Link
Is this all billion muslims? NO but it is a far larger % than many want to think.
So what will bring them into the 21st century life?
Do you think there are enough Muslims who would choose our form of government rules and laws over sharia?
In studies and polls done here and around the world of muslims asked said they prefer sharia law to be the recognized law of their country.
Right now muslims here is USA say they only want the civil aspects of sharia law. /which is fine except it is biased against women.
Other nation's muslims want stricter adherence.
read this link on a muslim coference I Norway and then tell me it is not disturbing.
especially this
"The “Peace Conference Scandinavia 2013,” was attended by 4,000 Muslims and featured nine speakers. One of the speakers explained that every one of the speakers – as well as the audience – would be labeled “extremists” by the media for believing in sharia punishments such as stoning of adulterers and homosexuals and believing that these practices should be implemented worldwide.
Declaring himself to be a “normal Muslim” (i.e., not of an extreme sect), the speaker then asked the audience if they consider themselves to be normal Muslims. After seeing all the participants’ hands raised in the affirmative, he declared,”It’s not that the speaker who we are inviting that has extreme radical views, as you (the media) say. These are general views that every Muslim genuinely has.”
This Iman asked for a show of hands at this conference on who believed it was ok to behead or kill homosexuals, adulterers apostates etc,
His point was that those views are not extreme, they are normal for most muslims.The Link
Is this all billion muslims? NO but it is a far larger % than many want to think.
So what will bring them into the 21st century life?
FridayNiteLites
500+ Posts
We do not have to ignore the problem, but we can ignore the speaker.
Bevo Incognito
5,000+ Posts
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
texas_ex2000
2,500+ Posts
Who cares anymore what this guy says? Yaawwwnnn.
zork
2,500+ Posts
Why not simply call on all the Imams of the world to consistently preach that the ISIS/ISIL are not just extremists but Apostates to the religion? Issue fatwas against ISIS/ISIL for their continued apostacy.
Just saying they are extremists or even a death cult is like observing what color flag they wave before they come into your house and take your wife, daughter, while killing you and your son.
Since they are such a small minority, why not call on the large majority to stand up, speak up, call them out? Again, calling them specifically Apostates to the true Islam. If Obama doesn't want to say that then he should have his favorite Islamic scholars come and speak with him. An Apostacy czar would be the likely name.
Just saying they are extremists or even a death cult is like observing what color flag they wave before they come into your house and take your wife, daughter, while killing you and your son.
Since they are such a small minority, why not call on the large majority to stand up, speak up, call them out? Again, calling them specifically Apostates to the true Islam. If Obama doesn't want to say that then he should have his favorite Islamic scholars come and speak with him. An Apostacy czar would be the likely name.
Here is an interest article on Crusades. After reading it the High Horse BO snidely referenced might be the right horse to get on.The Link
the site is a Catholic site ( I am not Catholic), The author Frank Madden is a respected medieval historian.
Good read some of it funny
for instance;
Ex-president Bill Clinton has also fingered the Crusades as the root cause of the present conflict. In a speech at Georgetown University, he recounted (and embellished) a massacre of Jews after the Crusader conquest of Jerusalem in 1099 and informed his audience that the episode was still bitterly remembered in the Middle East. (Why Islamist terrorists should be upset about the killing of Jews was not explained.)"
Perhaps those evil Christian Crusaders were not so evil aftr all
but they are a convenient deflection from today's reality for BO.
it was pointed out by some pundit; some one needs to tell BO the Crusades are over but the brutality of islamism isn't.
the site is a Catholic site ( I am not Catholic), The author Frank Madden is a respected medieval historian.
Good read some of it funny
for instance;
Ex-president Bill Clinton has also fingered the Crusades as the root cause of the present conflict. In a speech at Georgetown University, he recounted (and embellished) a massacre of Jews after the Crusader conquest of Jerusalem in 1099 and informed his audience that the episode was still bitterly remembered in the Middle East. (Why Islamist terrorists should be upset about the killing of Jews was not explained.)"
Perhaps those evil Christian Crusaders were not so evil aftr all
but they are a convenient deflection from today's reality for BO.
it was pointed out by some pundit; some one needs to tell BO the Crusades are over but the brutality of islamism isn't.
Another point that I wonder about - if the Crusades was a real motivator, then why do Islamic terrorists attack secular nations that had nothing to do with the Crusades? (Hell, the United States wasn't anywhere near existing at the time of the Crusades.) If I was pissed about the Crusades, I'd be plotting terrorist attacks at the Vatican.
Bevo Incognito
5,000+ Posts
BI
That is truly funny.
Honest dialogue?
You think BO offered any attempt at honest dialogue when he linked the Crusades as an attempt to show Christians of 800-1000 years ago were no better than islamists today?
Perhaps you can explain where an honest dialogue on how the Crusades have any equivalency between what the Crusades actually were and the barbarity of the current islamists activity all over the world would be.
That is truly funny.
Honest dialogue?
You think BO offered any attempt at honest dialogue when he linked the Crusades as an attempt to show Christians of 800-1000 years ago were no better than islamists today?
Perhaps you can explain where an honest dialogue on how the Crusades have any equivalency between what the Crusades actually were and the barbarity of the current islamists activity all over the world would be.
BI?
What basis do you think exists for an " honest dialogue" ?
BO made an attempt to equate or at the least minimize the horror islamists are doing to the world trying to make what the Crusaders did hundreds to a thousand years ago equivalent.
BO was factually wrong.There is no equivalency and he insulted the over a billion Christians to do what? Appease muslims?
BI watch this Vid and if you can make even a weak case for linking Crusaders as the villains to the islamists of today I will try to understand.
As mojo pointed out muslims were involved with then and nowThe Link
The facts easy to verify and it is a fascinating vid
What basis do you think exists for an " honest dialogue" ?
BO made an attempt to equate or at the least minimize the horror islamists are doing to the world trying to make what the Crusaders did hundreds to a thousand years ago equivalent.
BO was factually wrong.There is no equivalency and he insulted the over a billion Christians to do what? Appease muslims?
BI watch this Vid and if you can make even a weak case for linking Crusaders as the villains to the islamists of today I will try to understand.
As mojo pointed out muslims were involved with then and nowThe Link
The facts easy to verify and it is a fascinating vid
Clean
5,000+ Posts
It's hilarious that BO chose to emphasize the Christian slaughter of the residents of Jerusalem in 1099. I'd be willing to bet that the Muslims massacred alot more Christians and Jews in the Holy Land than the Crusaders ever did.
The Muslims captured, lost, and recaptured Jersusalem a half dozen times in fighting with Byzantine Empire between the mid-600s and the start of the Crusades and they slaughtered all the inhabitants multiple times. They also burned the Christian churches like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, multiple times.
BO has become an apologist for Islamic atrocities and that scares me.
The Muslims captured, lost, and recaptured Jersusalem a half dozen times in fighting with Byzantine Empire between the mid-600s and the start of the Crusades and they slaughtered all the inhabitants multiple times. They also burned the Christian churches like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, multiple times.
BO has become an apologist for Islamic atrocities and that scares me.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I think David Brooks said it best on MTP:
Husker
Honestly I am at loss as to how to equate saying the world must address the sheer horror so many islamists in so many countries are enacting against other Muslims and Christians in ever increasing numbers, how does that equate to self righteousness?
simple insane to try to equate.
ISIS burned to death 16 in Mosul yesterday. Boko Haram burns Christians in churches and is now kidnapping people in Cameroon.. No one knows how many they killed in Nigeria
Is it self righteous to say this is barbaric and the world needs to stop?'
What is ignorant is when BO tried to excuse this barbarism and gets it all wrong even at that.
OR are we afraid that by calling on the world to stop this we are " inflaming" the islamists?
edit to add, No Husker it was the head of the Byzantine Empire pleading for help from the murdering muslims that " caused" the Crusades. Don't accept BO's faux history do some actual research.
you can start by watching the link I provided yesterday. It should astound you.
Honestly I am at loss as to how to equate saying the world must address the sheer horror so many islamists in so many countries are enacting against other Muslims and Christians in ever increasing numbers, how does that equate to self righteousness?
simple insane to try to equate.
ISIS burned to death 16 in Mosul yesterday. Boko Haram burns Christians in churches and is now kidnapping people in Cameroon.. No one knows how many they killed in Nigeria
Is it self righteous to say this is barbaric and the world needs to stop?'
What is ignorant is when BO tried to excuse this barbarism and gets it all wrong even at that.
OR are we afraid that by calling on the world to stop this we are " inflaming" the islamists?
edit to add, No Husker it was the head of the Byzantine Empire pleading for help from the murdering muslims that " caused" the Crusades. Don't accept BO's faux history do some actual research.
you can start by watching the link I provided yesterday. It should astound you.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Obama and SH are comically more concerned about what COULD be done to Muslims by NO group of people identified with those intentions today than what WAS and IS BEING DONE by multiple GROUPS of people (muslims) around the world.
Just trying to get this straight because it seems like insanity.
Just trying to get this straight because it seems like insanity.
6721 -- The motivations behind the Crusades were mixed as was Crusader behaviors over the course of about 200 years and about a dozen serious conflicts. Certainly the Byzantines called for help, but it's also true the some "Crusaders" sacked that ancient capital. (Some maintain that's how the Sacred Shroud of Turin came to have its home in Western Europe and that previously the burial shroud was owned by Byzantine emperors). Protecting pilgim routes to the holy land and encouraging east-west commerce were noble endeavors and no doubt many who fought and died had pure motivations. Others used the opportunity to gain lots of wordly power and treasure.
While there might be some parallells to modern Islam, I think we all understand now that introspection and critical examination of history is not something that will play well in these days of hyperpartisan media. I don't think Obama ever attempted to justify or excuse Islamic violence but that's the message you, Clean and a couple dozen of my friends on Facebook took.
While there might be some parallells to modern Islam, I think we all understand now that introspection and critical examination of history is not something that will play well in these days of hyperpartisan media. I don't think Obama ever attempted to justify or excuse Islamic violence but that's the message you, Clean and a couple dozen of my friends on Facebook took.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
In reply to:
Bevo Incognito
5,000+ Posts
Husker
BO doesn't need to try to create an equivalency to distinguish between moderate muslims and radicals.If as you seem to think that is what he was doing why bring in events from 800-1000 ears ago OR if he felt the need to b ring up the Crusade
s why didn't he mention the barbaric battles the muslims fought against the civilized world for 400 years before the Crusades?
BI
Nuanced? really? What kind of nuance is needed to talk about beheadings murders burnings and rapes? and that is just the last 3 days.
Really what kind of nuance should there be. Give us an example if you have one.
BO doesn't need to try to create an equivalency to distinguish between moderate muslims and radicals.If as you seem to think that is what he was doing why bring in events from 800-1000 ears ago OR if he felt the need to b ring up the Crusade
s why didn't he mention the barbaric battles the muslims fought against the civilized world for 400 years before the Crusades?
BI
Nuanced? really? What kind of nuance is needed to talk about beheadings murders burnings and rapes? and that is just the last 3 days.
Really what kind of nuance should there be. Give us an example if you have one.
Bevo Incognito
5,000+ Posts
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