Best and Worst President

Carter wasn't a leader,he couldn't inspire either. He started out trusting the russians too much and got cock slapped with the invasion of Afghanistan. The Iranians pretty much made a ***** out of him too. I don't think any other modern prez would have not bombed the holy living hell out of Iran if they conspired to keep american hostage for a zillion days. His own party rejected his own SALT treaty.
 
THEU, was that a joke? Surely you didn't want one million American lives lost invading the Japanese mainland, over the 50,000-100,000 Japanese lives lost by dropping the bomb.
Truman did what he had to do. He was a darned good president.
 
THEU consistently posts some of the dumbest **** on Hornfans, and the Truman comment was right up there. Probably just as many if not more Japanese civilians would have died if we had invaded- we just would have had to kill them one by one as they attacked American soldiers with bamboo spears. Look at what the Japanese military commanded their civilians to do when we invaded Okinawa and Saipan. Look at what kind of preparations the Japanese were making for invasion. The atomic bombs probably saved Japanese lives in the long run, because they were ready to fight to the death to protect their sacred homeland.
 
Not to mention saving American, German, French, British, etc. lives by providing the Soviet Union with pretty clear evidence that it would be a mistake to try to expand their sphere of influence into Western Europe while our allies were desperately weak in the aftermath of World War II.
 
I always come back to the fact that we had to drop the bomb TWICE.

What else do you need to understand?

I too used to not think much of FDR, but reading No Ordinary Time gave me an appreciation for his subtle genius in probably the most turbulent period in the nations history outside the Civil War.

And with each passing year, Reagan looks a lot better. I didnt like him much at the time but he would absolutely crush if he were running against the bozos we are looking at now.
 
Best: Washington Actually Washington was the greatest American by a country mile but he wasn't that great of a President. He did, however, set the right tone for leadership at a precarious time and then, after eight years, got out. He saved our country in the Revolutionary War, in the Constitutional Convention and in getting us on the initial path. Anybody else would have failed all three times. Lincoln was the only other person who truly played a critical role in saving the nation and others, given his job, might have succeeded. Washington stands alone.

Worst: Grant I guess.

(The WHH nomination was funny, or came from a Ron Paul nut. I'm not sure.)
 
you are right. It is dumb to post that I am against the use of atomic weapons. I am totally stupid to think that a Japanese life is worth as much as an American life. How could I?
 
I think the best president Was Lincoln, for the reasons everyone knows,

There is no doubt in my mind that George W Bush will come to be be regarded in history as our worst president, worse than Grant, Buchanan, or Harding. His failure to lead in momentous times or succeed at, well, anything is truly breathtaking.
 
i guess they don't teach history in college anymore....
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In reply to:
 
THEU, your opinion on the atomic bomb is laughable. Your "view" about the south and black integration is the most f*#%$%ed up thing I have ever read on this site. I hope you don't really speak of these things to people outside of the web.
 
Not to get too far off on a tangent, DAGMAR, but I think you are oversimplifying the issue. There is a legitimate question whether it is morally justified to save the lives soldiers (men and women who have, hopefully, voluntarily entered the fight) at the expense of women and children (who made no such decision). Dropping a bomb on a city, as opposed to a military target, raises serious moral questions. I don't pretend to know enough to have the answer, which I suspect depends on your own view of morality, but it seems a pretty legitimate debate.
 
Harder to comment on historical figures, but in my lifetime, it is very easy.

Best - Reagan (imagine a guy winning 49 states these days)
Worst - Carter (just in way over his head, and he hasn't helped his legacy by cozying up to Chavez)
 
Best: Lincoln, Washington, FDR
Worst: Buchanon, Jackson, LBJ
Most Overrated: Reagan, Kennedy

Time will tell if Bush is among the worst ever. You've got your head in the sand if you think he's been a competent president.
 
For me, I just can't get my brain around the idea of intentionally killing children to save the lives of adults. I know that might sound naive, but that it just where I end up.
 
Think about this,

It took 2 bombs and having their military nearly destroyed to get them to surrender. The SOP at that time included carpet bombing which also killed non-military personal including children.

The invasion would not only have cost more American lives, it would have cost more Japanese lives, including the innocents.

The decision to use this weapon was not made hastily or without concern.
 
Instead of quoting someone else's conclusion and then insulting others for not being as brilliant as you by just going along with the conclusion, why don't you post some FACTS supporting your conclusion? Were U.S. soldiers targeting women and children in a proposed ground invasion such that any such invasion would necessarily have resulted in the intentional killing of more women and children than the bombings? I've never heard that argument before.
 
Let me say that I don't think that war is ever a positive. I don't know what all of the information was about how many lives would have been lost if the US hadn't dropped the bomb. I just said that I believed it was a negative of Truman, and a negative that the US was the only country that had used atomic weapons. I also was attacked so it seemed for saying that a Japanese life was of the same worth as an American life. I stand by that. That was my point.

Now to get back to what I said and didn't say about racial reconciliation. What I was saying was that the Union's/American's promises went unfulfilled and did a great deal that harmed racial reconciliation. I don't remember ever defending the Confederate States of America's position on slavery. I don't think slavery is a positive in any way either. I wasn't attempting to defend slavery in any way. I hope that what I said didn't come across as anything approaching that.
So let me clarify. I think war and slavery are bad. Is that clear?
 
allweatherHorn, are you serious? You didn't know that in case of a ground invasion, the Japanese had made elaborate preparations that included using women and children to kill US soldiers?

Also, there's a difference between being brilliant and being educated.
 
Two tips from TahoeHorn:
1. It's a sign of good posting to be able to stick to the topic. 2. It's also a sign of good posting to understand when you are talking to a wall. If you are arguing with someone who will not change their mind and everybody else either sees it your way or the other guy's, it's smart to quit arguing.
 
TahoeHorn,
Those are both excellent tips. Thank you.

Thumbs up to Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan. Thumbs down to Adams (John), Jackson, Buchanan, Grant, Harding, Carter.
 
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