Bama Dude Has Sketchy Take On 2009 BCS

I think we all got a glimpse of what Gilbert could have been capable of at Texas during that NCG if Mack had not lost his mind after that loss.
And I think we unanimously expected great things in 2010. Yes, he had his freshman moments but he also showed he could play with the best under the worst circumstances.

I remember wondering aloud with other fans about the wisdom of Mack's decision to try to go to the power-run. But we were a top 10 team for 5 out of the last 6 years! Why would that change just because of a diametrical shift in offensive philosophy for which we had not been recruiting to at all?
Well it turns out that little voice we all had in our heads going "this is crazy???" was right. Mack should have known better. I am sure some of his coaches tried to tell him. He should have listened.
 
Detective Shilala said:
I think we all got a glimpse of what Gilbert could have been capable of at Texas during that NCG if Mack had not lost his mind after that loss.
And I think we unanimously expected great things in 2010. Yes, he had his freshman moments but he also showed he could play with the best under the worst circumstances.

I remember wondering aloud with other fans about the wisdom of Mack's decision to try to go to the power-run. But we were a top 10 team for 5 out of the last 6 years! Why would that change just because of a diametrical shift in offensive philosophy for which we had not been recruiting to at all?
Well it turns out that little voice we all had in our heads going "this is crazy???" was right. Mack should have known better. I am sure some of his coaches tried to tell him. He should have listened.
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Exactly.

Hindsight is always clear but many of us at the time questioned the wisdom of recruiting a top, Gator-Aid HS Player of the Year, QB like Gilbert who ran the spread in HS and the next season change the Offense to a Power-I.

We scratched our heads and most probably said "In Mack We Trust"... unfortunately the decision doomed not only Gilbert and the program but it eventually it led to Mack's demise.
 
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But what was dumber was when Mack hired Applewhite as OC, righted the defense with Greg Robinson, decided to convert back to the zone read, and we fired him. A lot of the same posters complaining now were excited for the “tough defense” charlie would bring along with the run heavy offense Shawn Watson would bring that would compliment the defense.... however most posters wanted Mack fired and were excited about Charlie so they do not like to endlessly discuss this.

Also, it amazes me people go on and on that Mack ruined Gilbert yet everyone says Swoopes was terrible without pointing out whatever Swoopes might have been was ruined by Shawn Watson trying to make him into a pro style QB.
 
Detective Shilala said:
I remember wondering aloud with other fans about the wisdom of Mack's decision to try to go to the power-run. But we were a top 10 team for 5 out of the last 6 years! Why would that change just because of a diametrical shift in offensive philosophy for which we had not been recruiting to at all?
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I generally agree, but what was odd about that season is that I never really felt like they actually tried that hard to BE a power running team. It always seemed like they were kind of drifting between two philosophies on offense and never really did anything right.

To me, the clincher for that year was when we went down to Nebraska and against all odds got the win, and ironically we got it doing just what Mack supposedly wanted to do - play defense, run the ball, and don't make mistakes.

So we come back to Austin against Iowa State the very next week and guess what - we come out in five wides and try to play spread ball. Gilbert throws 5 picks and we look like a hot mess all day. Season over.
 
ProdigalHorn said:
I generally agree, but what was odd about that season is that I never really felt like they actually tried that hard to BE a power running team.
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Yep, you could almost see the coaches going to the drawing board from week to week, to figure it all out all over again, playing itself out on the field each week. Whichever coach prevailed that week in the film room was whose offense we'd see.

HTown77 I don't remember anyone being excited about Shawn Watson.
Most of us were concerned and skeptical, even the ones we wanted to believe in Charlie.
Anyway, if you want to generalize the fanbase like that the same could be turned around on you. Charlie made the same mistakes Mack made. Each had 3 seasons to figure it out. You want to think Mack had it figured out going into his 4th season of rebuilding. Ultimately they both failed to convince enough people a 4th year would have made a difference.
 
The fans I spoke with about the post 2009 years produced varying opinions on Mack. Some were ready to have his head after the NC loss, others wanted the same following the 2010 disaster, many took a wait and see position, others saw no reason to get rid of Mack.

I still hold a belief that in the 2010 NCG, Gilbert was ill prepared to step into the role of having to lead the team on a moment's notice. I also believe his performance going forward was affected negatively, particularly since his first full game was a loss on College Football's most important game of the season. This may be true and then again, it may not hold water.

The ensuing years, Gilbert was injured and transferred out, new coaches came and went, Case McCoy did as best he could, but seemed to be the weak link in the offense. David Ash showed promise, but the concussion issue ended his tenure at QB. Blow-out losses were more frequent. The D was fair at best. The O could look good one game and non-existent the next.

Many believed that if Mack had won the 2009 NC, he would (probably) step down at some point, and Muschamp would be anointed the new HC. Neither happened and Will left for greener pastures (may not have been a bad thing). Recruiting had fallen off, we suffered the first NFL draft without a single Horn being selected since the late 1930's, and only had free agent contract guys. Mack, as I recall, stated once the Bama loss negatively affected him, such that his ability to snare and develop top talent in recruiting, and his coaching fell off.

We had the "Saban coming to Texas as HC" issues. Saban signed a new K with Bama and Mack shortly after, announced his retirement. Deloss retired and Patterson, a terrible AD, came in and hired Strong, who would post 3 sub .500 seasons.

Now we have Tom Herman. The first regular season showed some promise, but we let too many games slip away that should have been won. Marland should have been a win as should have USC, Tech, and OSU and most likely OU. Herman did have a nice, bowl win over an SEC opponent to cap off a 7-6 season.

Since I've been a Texas fan, I've seen great years, '63, '69, '70 and 2005, good years and some real stinkers. I've noticed these go in cycles. Following DKR, came Ackers started strong had 2 shots at an NC but missed on both. Starting in '85 and '86 were not good. Then McWilliams only one good season ending in a blowout loss to Miami. Mackovic had 6 years, a couple of Conference titles then 1997 and then 66-3 killed him off. Then came Mack and 12 really good years followed by 1 losing season and 3 ok years with no conference championships, 1 of 3 in bowls. CS three bad years 1 bowl loss which was the ugliest I've seen a Texas team play.

Looking at back, there seems to be a pattern to the good and bad years. We tend to have 10-12 good years followed by 10-12 years of mediocrity. Since 2010 we've been mediocre, followed by one 9 win season, one bowl win with Mack and one bowl win under Herman. We are about due for some solid good years. I think that if Herman continues to build with top talent and develop that talent including depth on both sides of the ball, then 2019 may be really good and 2020 might be stellar. But, production in terms of wins will be a crucial to attract the talent needed.

Just my view and take. I hope we get there...soon!
 
Charlie made the same mistakes Mack made. Each had 3 seasons to figure it out. You want to think Mack had it figured out going into his 4th season of rebuilding. Ultimately they both failed to convince enough people a 4th year would have made a difference.
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Their mistakes were light years apart.
8-5, 9-4, 8-5 with two bowl wins and a top 20 finish are not the same as 6-7, 5-7, 5-7 with 0-24 to Iowa State and losing to Kansas. Charlie made next level mistakes.

DKR went 6-4 in 1965, 7-4 in 1966 and 6-4 in 1967. In 1968, Emmory Bellard and DKR invented the wishbone and then won two national titles.

2013 was Applewhite’s first year and he had recruited Heard. Ash went down and no chance was given to see what Applewhite and Greg Robinson could actually do. Not firing Diaz after 2012 was a mistake and indeed on Mack, but history shows even DKR had a rough patch. Prematurely firing a national title winner for the Charlie Strong ****show was incredibly dumb. It was too early on pulling the trigger on Mack for his career, too late in the year to fire a coach, and the three worst consecutive seasons in UT history were the direct result. It only might be lessened by the fact that firing Rick Barnes for Shaka Smart is going to be extremely worse if both coaches continue on their current paths.

Also, I am no Steve Patterson defender, but I think Strong was chosen by Bill Powers. I honestly wonder if Patterson wanted to fire Strong after the Notre Dame game and that is what got Patterson fired so abruptly. Even he knew that his terrible price raises and policies would not work with a product that bad.
 
This whole subject/discussion/thread is coming full circle now...
The reason there is so much angst and debate related to all things 2009CG is me, you, Mack, the players and everyone that matters believe we had 'em.
(And we did have 'em BTW)
We will never convince dumb Bama dude or the media or anyone else, but we know it. That is why it messed up Mack... and why there is so much fallout still. It wasn't the loss. It is the fact that we had 'em. This fact alone is why Bama dude's sketchy "article" even exists...8 years later. If we had gone into a CG doubting how our team matched up or wondering if we should even be there...and maybe with some average QB...some Greg McElroy type...and he got injured and we lost, we would not be having this discussion today.
 
Hopefully Herman or someone turns it around sooner than later to give us something new to argue about.

Honestly, many national titles later, I am suprised Bama fans are still concerned about this other than they must know they should not have won it. Strangely, 2009 is Saban’s only undefeated national title team and yet probably his weakest national title team.
 
BevoJoe said:
The first regular season showed some promise, but we let too many games slip away that should have been won. Marland should have been a win as should have USC, Tech, and OSU and most likely OU.
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Every time I read something like this, my mind blows a little. Can you imagine, winning three of those games and talking about this as a returning 10-win team??? That's why so many times records are just weird, because this still would have been a deeply flawed team, but warts and all, with the worst offensive line I think I've ever seen in my life, this team is a three plays away from doing just that.

RainH2burntO said:
We will never convince dumb Bama dude or the media or anyone else, but we know it. That is why it messed up Mack.
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I remember reading Mack say something to the effect that he was completely confident they were going to beat Alabama. And maybe it's hindsight on Mack's part or the fact that he usually DID have the better team so it was easy to be right, but I remember Mack talking like this about a number of games where it seemed like things were in doubt. I remember after the OK State game where we came back in Austin, he basically said "We knew we were 21 points better than them, and they got some fluke plays, so we just said, OK that's done, go win it." He seemed to have a pretty good sense of assessing his teams and what they could do. And that Bama game was the first time I ever remember him talking about a game he was sure they were going to win where they lost. (Again... that may be selective because he may just not have bothered to say it after several of the numerous OU waxings...)
 
ProdigalHorn said:
Every time I read something like this, my mind blows a little. Can you imagine, winning three of those games and talking about this as a returning 10-win team??? That's why so many times records are just weird, because this still would have been a deeply flawed team, but warts and all, with the worst offensive line I think I've ever seen in my life, this team is a three plays away from doing just that.



I remember reading Mack say something to the effect that he was completely confident they were going to beat Alabama. And maybe it's hindsight on Mack's part or the fact that he usually DID have the better team so it was easy to be right, but I remember Mack talking like this about a number of games where it seemed like things were in doubt. I remember after the OK State game where we came back in Austin, he basically said "We knew we were 21 points better than them, and they got some fluke plays, so we just said, OK that's done, go win it." He seemed to have a pretty good sense of assessing his teams and what they could do. And that Bama game was the first time I ever remember him talking about a game he was sure they were going to win where they lost. (Again... that may be selective because he may just not have bothered to say it after several of the numerous OU waxings...)
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I complain frequently and often how Mack would stick with a qb once he had a firm choice (regrets over Simms/Applewhite probably). Florida won a title with Tebow coming in as a true freshman. So it killed me when John Chiles would come in, do a keeper for 20 yards, then get benched for a couple of quarters while colt ran up stats. Again, repeating myself from other threads, but Colt's backups didn't get significant time because Mack was afraid of a repeat of prior "wrongs/errors"....
 
Htown77 said:
Are you saying that John Chiles should starts?
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nope. saying that would've been a good combination to offset colt's immobility at that time (not so strong and tough as his senior year sans bama). Chiles had 4.3 speed (DJ Monroe), should've had more touches......will always say that McCoy was left in to pad stats constantly/go for Heisman/awards. Team concept would've brought athleticism into the mix. Don't bench McCoy but supplement the offense with some speed.....LSU/Florida/etc.....
 
I have much respect for Alabama...or at least what they have accomplished. But here's what I'd like to see...
I'd like to see UT dethrone Bama, win a natty or two, and then say, " Hey, by the way, we would have beaten those guys in '09/10 and had one more had our heisman candidate QB and team leader not gone down in the first quarter. "
Now, it wouldn't be very logical to feel justified bringing that assumption/presumption up just because you were now on top again...
BUT THEN AGAIN NEITHER IS DUMB BAMA DUDE'S THINKING THAT BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN ON TOP SINCE THAT GAME MEANS THEY WERE GOING TO DONINATE THAT GAME REGARDLESS OF THE OBVIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES
:herring:
 
RainH2burntO said:
I have much respect for Alabama...or at least what they have accomplished. But here's what I'd like to see...
I'd like to see UT dethrone Bama, win a natty or two, and then say, " Hey, by the way, we would have beaten those guys in '09/10 and had one more had our heisman candidate QB and team leader not gone down in the first quarter. "
Now, it wouldn't be very logical to feel justified bringing that assumption/presumption up just because you were now on top again...
BUT THEN AGAIN NEITHER IS DUMB BAMA DUDE'S THINKING THAT BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN ON TOP SINCE THAT GAME MEANS THEY WERE GOING TO DONINATE THAT GAME REGARDLESS OF THE OBVIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES
:herring:
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The issue with "respecting Alabama" is that they are in the slime pit known as the $EC. Could they be the only $EC school with a clean and ethical program? Could be I guess, BUT we know they fail the ethical part by the way Nicky plays around with his offers. However, with the probationary history of at least Tennessee and aggy, we know there are issues starting with recruiting and lasting throughout a player's career.
 
ViperHorn said:
The issue with "respecting Alabama" is that they are in the slime pit known as the $EC. Could they be the only $EC school with a clean and ethical program? Could be I guess, BUT we know they fail the ethical part by the way Nicky plays around with his offers. However, with the probationary history of at least Tennessee and aggy, we know there are issues starting with recruiting and lasting throughout a player's career.
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Its funny...I think about this in regards to both Bama and the Patriots.. What are the odds of this kind of dominance in the modern era? Is there more to the story? How much "smoke" have we seen?
From New England, I'd say we've seen some. From Bama? Not sure.
There's plenty I don't like about both of these teams (primarily the fact that they aren't MY teams) but until I see proof otherwise of major violations, I'll give them their props for a sustained level of success few attain. I think there's more reasons at this point to be suspicious of NE.
Having said that, I should have chosen my words more carefully, as I overstated my "respect" for Bama.
I hate them.
 
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RainH2burntO said:
What are the odds of this kind of dominance in the modern era? Is there more to the story?
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One thing that has actually aided Bama's championship dominance has been the setup of college playoffs - especially in the current four-team playoff. Without the four-team format, they don't win their last championship, meaning they win one of the last four. And of course our poll system has basically created some self-fulfilling prophecies. It's just a lot easier to be a football dynasty now than it ever has been before. Think about how many Mack Brown teams would have made a four-team playoff and could potentially have won another title - for that matter Darrell Royal or Joe Paterno or any number of other coaches.

That's not to say they haven't deserved most if not all of those accolades. But Bama peaked at the right time in terms of the college landscape, and with the help of the ESPN hype train propping up the SEC, it's only recently that Bama couldn't basically get a rubber stamp into the title game by winning the SEC West.
 
ProdigalHorn said:
One thing that has actually aided Bama's championship dominance has been the setup of college playoffs - especially in the current four-team playoff. Without the four-team format, they don't win their last championship, meaning they win one of the last four. And of course our poll system has basically created some self-fulfilling prophecies. It's just a lot easier to be a football dynasty now than it ever has been before. Think about how many Mack Brown teams would have made a four-team playoff and could potentially have won another title - for that matter Darrell Royal or Joe Paterno or any number of other coaches.

That's not to say they haven't deserved most if not all of those accolades. But Bama peaked at the right time in terms of the college landscape, and with the help of the ESPN hype train propping up the SEC, it's only recently that Bama couldn't basically get a rubber stamp into the title game by winning the SEC West.
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All very good points, Prodigal. A+

By the way... In thinking about your name...have you returned home yet??
 
As far as 'luck', only really good teams get 'lucky'. I have always believed the 2008 and 2009 teams were our best ever. It was a gut wrenching way to end a decade of excellence. The winningest P5 team of 2000's.

".....ten thousand midnight's ago....."
Sunset Boulevard
:cowrose:
 
Dionysus said:
Where does the 2005 squad rank for you? :smile1:


2001 HF member here... where does the time go, Bevo Joe?
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The 2005 squad is the best ever, because they won a ring. But I believe that both the 2008 and 2009 teams would have been very competitive with them, for lack of a better term.

I would also point out that I want the Loch Ness monster to be real, and that if you take .99 cents and my opinion to a 7-11, you can get a Big Gulp. Providing, of course, that they haven't sold out of them due to U of H fans heading to the Cotton Bowl.

For you youngsters, Sabre or one of my fellow old fogey's can explain. "Hoss" Brock, may he RIP.

2001 HF Member. :cowrose:
 
zuckercanyon said:
I've been looking at posts for a few years, just started participating, won't always get the "oldies but goodies" questions....
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Nothing to be sorry about - we have some pretty deep-dive inside jokes on this board that no one would ever be expected to get unless you sat there banging your head against your desk during the arguments that started said inside jokes. :D

Let's see... what else was there... 10-yard minimum was my favorite. And who could forget Henry Sheldon? Good times...
 
zuckercanyon said:
Sorry, Prodigal.......I've been looking at posts for a few years, just started participating, won't always get the "oldies but goodies" questions....
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ProdigalHorn said:
Nothing to be sorry about - we have some pretty deep-dive inside jokes on this board that no one would ever be expected to get unless you sat there banging your head against your desk during the arguments that started said inside jokes. :D

Let's see... what else was there... 10-yard minimum was my favorite. And who could forget Henry Sheldon? Good times...
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This does not sit well with me. I am uphauled. :cool:
 
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