It's true among Republicans too - except for the men. Frankly, I'm skeptical of these kinds of polls. It's a little like Medicare for All. Everybody loves it until they know what it is.
2020 Senate & House
- Thread starter Joe Fan
- Start date
It's true among Republicans too - except for the men. Frankly, I'm skeptical of these kinds of polls. It's a little like Medicare for All. Everybody loves it until they know what it is.
I got it from clicking on the Tweet. I couldn't open the Times article unless I subscribe, and there's no way in hell I'd subscribe to them or give them money. Here's a screenshot of it.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I got it from clicking on the Tweet. I couldn't open the Times article unless I subscribe, and there's no way in hell I'd subscribe to them or give them money. Here's a screenshot of it.
FWIW, white males without a degree had a relatively low turnout in 2016 of only 56 or 58% (going off memory for that) -- so there is a lot of room for this group increase turnout in 2020
Bigger picture, I think the total vote in 2016 was somewhere close to 139 Million voters while total eligible voters are around 240 Million. So, to be honest, there is a lot of room for a lot of things to happen. My guess is that we will set a record in 2020 with maybe 150 Million voting. I think the impeachment nonsense is enough to motivate even more to get out. But, as with all things, we will see.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
The new Gov of Florida, Ron DeSantis, is doing well. He barely won the race, but now is wildly popular (68% approval rating). One of his solid attributes is attention to detail. He has got a lot of the little things fixed that bugged citizens. They say there's been nothing too small for his attention. I often wished Abbott would also drill down to the granular level like this to get things done too. Anyway, DeSantis is a possible 2024 candidate
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Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Agree
"Approaching immigration from a labor perspective used to be a talking point of prominent Democrats such as Cesar Chavez & former Rep. Barbara Jordan. By taking this stand, DeSantis is clearly establishing that the GOP in Florida is the party of the working class."
E-Verify is the lowest hanging fruit and might also be the most effective way to stop illegal immigration. Why Trump isn't pushing it nationally is baffling.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Because it's shifting the federal govt's job onto business owners (who are already overburdened with regulations and red tape - ever try to run your own business in the US?). How about the federal govt just do its own job itself instead? I would argue that there is no more core job of any national govt than to protect its borders. It's basically job #1.
I think that's a crock of ****, but if that's the case, then why commend Governor DeSantis for imposing such a mandate?
An employer signs up with e verify and then uses that gov't site to "verify" the employee's legality to work in USA comparing the info provided on the employee's I-9 to the info with the Social Security Administration and DHS.
It takes a few minutes and you get answers with seconds.
Not a big deal for the importance of assuring legal people are the ones working.
It takes a few minutes and you get answers with seconds.
Not a big deal for the importance of assuring legal people are the ones working.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I was pimping him to eventually replace Trump in general, I dont really agree with EV, but I concede many on my side love it. He is doing quite a bit of good in Florida, this is just one item.
And you didnt answer the question
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Ultimately I am for the cheapest means. Computer systems and checking boxes on a web page seems more cost effective than walls, border agents, government agency bureaucracy.
It shifts some work onto employers which isn't great, but I think taxes are much more of a problem.
It shifts some work onto employers which isn't great, but I think taxes are much more of a problem.
Yep. There is damned near a 100% correlation on that.
Easy question to answer. You go after employers for the same reason you go after cocaine dealers. If the federal government "did its job," there wouldn't be any cocaine for coke dealers to sell. However, we know that cocaine gets smuggled into the country anyway, and the fact that the federal government can't stop all cocaine from entering isn't an excuse for someone to make money and profit off of coke dealing.
Ditto for illegal immigration. The federal government hasn't stopped all illegal immigration, but that doesn't make it OK to hire illegal immigrants. It's still against the law, and people shouldn't be able to make money or artificially deflate wages through an illegal enterprise.
The "undue burden on employers" argument is a red herring and a bad faith argument. The people who raise that issue generally do so because they ultimately want to be able or want employers to be able to hire illegal immigrants. They don't want the problem stopped. We're not going to keep every illegal immigrant out even if we let Trump completely have his border security agenda, and even if we did, there are over 10 million already in the country, 98 percent of whom will never be deported. The only practical way to deal with the problem is employer enforcement. It is the only thing that would actually work in a substantial way.
Consider the mandates imposed on business - payroll management, OSHA, EPA, labor laws, etc. There are literally hundreds of thousands of regulations that are imposed on businesses, and most of them are far more burdensome than e-Verify and do far less good. It would do 100 times more than building a wall would. Most businesses that don't actually want to hire illegal immigrants would not care at all.
I35
5,000+ Posts
.
I say it doesn’t have to be one of the other. I say we do both wall and border security and laws for hiring illegals. I’m disappointed that we allowed it over the years to get to this point in the first place.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
The question was whether you personally had every tried to run a small business in the US from the ground up?
It's a big task. And, in my experience, the vast majority of people willing to pile yet more requirements and regulations on US small business owners have never actually tried to run a US small business. But let's see if that applies to you.
This might be a good requirement for all presidential candidates too
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Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
My idea --
(1) End anchor baby citizenship (all it takes is a piece of paper and a pen)
(2) Put a small fee/tax on remittances to fund the wall and everything else related to immigration enforcement. There is a huge untapped cash flow to the fed govt just sitting there waiting
(3) Wall (would only take 2 years to build it in all the places it can easily be built)
(4) Everyone not here legally out
(5) Labor may then re-enter to work using a biometric id card (DNA, fingerprints, photos, whatever works best) - purchased just like a Disney pass, for a certain specific time ($25 for a day, $50 for a week, $100 for 3 months and so on). I dont really love Disney but their park entry system is fairly efficient - why not just steal their idea?. When time is up, they must return. And if they do it right, may return again and again. Put this burden on them, not the small business owner/farmer
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I35
5,000+ Posts
I like the idea of having a deadline (6 month or a year at most) that they return to their home country voluntarily and if so they are eligible to come back the right and legal way. If we have to escort them out of the country then they lost their eligibility to ever return again.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
That actually wasn't your question, but I'll answer it anyway, even though it's a little like the idiots who say you don't have a right to an opinion on going to war unless you've served in the military.
I've never owned a small business, but I've been closely involved with the running of three of them. None of the owners would have cared about using E-Verify. We complied with more onerous regulations everyday and voluntarily did far more extensive employee screening. We would have incorporated it into our normal employee screening, and it would have taken more time and trouble to talk about it than to do it. For the most part, the companies who have an issue about it are those that rely on illegal immigrant labor. It's homebuilders, construction companies, landscapers, hotels, fast food restaurants, some retailers, etc. They don't want to lose the "I'm stupid" defense that they currently have, and that's what this is about. It has nothing at all to do with the regulatory burden.
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The problem is that it would be easier to colonize Jupiter than it would be to do (1) and (4), and those are the real meat in your proposal. We could make that the all-or-nothing agenda, or we could do mandatory E-Verify and accomplish almost the same thing for a microscopic fraction of the cost and effort.
It's sorta like building a house and getting electricity. You could wait until your family can afford to build your own personal power plant in the backyard and in the meantime have no electricity. Or you could just tap into your local power grid and pay an electric bill every month.
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