Why hate Walmart?
- Thread starter BrothaHorn
- Start date
Why the romanticizing of the "mom and pop" stores? I'm old enough to remember them. They were generally more expensive and had ****** customer service. They also paid for **** and had no health plans.
I'm indifferent about WMT but sometimes the good old days weren't always that good.
I'm indifferent about WMT but sometimes the good old days weren't always that good.
G
gardere_owns_OU
Guest
great example today..
i went to the bicycle shop on 183/braker for a bike rack to go into my car hitch. it was between $175-200 for the 2 bike holder and 4 bike holder.
i went to buck's bikes and found a 2 bike holder for as low as $139. their 4 bike holder (same model from other shop) was $170..
i go to academy and find a nice 3 bike holder for $99.
guess which one i bought. i'll always try the local places first and if the difference aint much, i'll buy from them. but when i can be saving $40-$100 and more... i'll go corporate.
i went to the bicycle shop on 183/braker for a bike rack to go into my car hitch. it was between $175-200 for the 2 bike holder and 4 bike holder.
i went to buck's bikes and found a 2 bike holder for as low as $139. their 4 bike holder (same model from other shop) was $170..
i go to academy and find a nice 3 bike holder for $99.
guess which one i bought. i'll always try the local places first and if the difference aint much, i'll buy from them. but when i can be saving $40-$100 and more... i'll go corporate.
falloutboy
25+ Posts
breakfast_taco
100+ Posts
Looking at the thread, hardly anyone has stated a hatred for Walmart. There are things they do that deserve criticism and they've received it.
I find it odd that people, generally right wingers, feel the need to step up and sing the virtues of Walmart as part of their criticism of whatever they imagine "libs" to be. Similarly with Haliburton, many on the right leapt up to defend that company evidently for political reasons, partisan reasons.
My disdain and avoidance of Walmart has little to do directly with my political voting. I favor Target and Costco because I prefer what I've read about how they operate. If either operation is found to be operating as I've read Walmart does, I'll abandon them, too.
Hoosier Horn seeming celebrates his support of a $.60 per hour wage and also seeming longs for the day when the lazy American worker will settle for the same. I suppose this means Hoosier is a proponent of illegal alien labor in this country to keep his grocery bill low as well.
We do impact the world with how we purchase. I'm uncomfortable supporting Chinese wage-slave labor. It's exploitation, but I guess that word is quaint and old fashioned to some.
I find it odd that people, generally right wingers, feel the need to step up and sing the virtues of Walmart as part of their criticism of whatever they imagine "libs" to be. Similarly with Haliburton, many on the right leapt up to defend that company evidently for political reasons, partisan reasons.
My disdain and avoidance of Walmart has little to do directly with my political voting. I favor Target and Costco because I prefer what I've read about how they operate. If either operation is found to be operating as I've read Walmart does, I'll abandon them, too.
Hoosier Horn seeming celebrates his support of a $.60 per hour wage and also seeming longs for the day when the lazy American worker will settle for the same. I suppose this means Hoosier is a proponent of illegal alien labor in this country to keep his grocery bill low as well.
We do impact the world with how we purchase. I'm uncomfortable supporting Chinese wage-slave labor. It's exploitation, but I guess that word is quaint and old fashioned to some.
Ag with kids
2,500+ Posts
bozo_casanova
2,500+ Posts
Ag with kids
2,500+ Posts
Ag with kids
2,500+ Posts
I can remember going to the Sears store. I can also remember buying toys at Western Auto.
I appreciate alot of what Walmart brings to the table. I'm also pleased that competitors have wised up to the fact that many shoppers want something other than the lowest possible price. Clean stores, pleasing displays, more selection, better and more friendly customer service, whatever.
For example, my Dad still buys his lawn mower from Western Auto because they'll repair it if it breaks.
I do think the company lost its identity some after Sam Walton died. His vision was about lower prices than his competitors, but also taking care of his employees.
I appreciate alot of what Walmart brings to the table. I'm also pleased that competitors have wised up to the fact that many shoppers want something other than the lowest possible price. Clean stores, pleasing displays, more selection, better and more friendly customer service, whatever.
For example, my Dad still buys his lawn mower from Western Auto because they'll repair it if it breaks.
I do think the company lost its identity some after Sam Walton died. His vision was about lower prices than his competitors, but also taking care of his employees.
Tandoori Horn
25+ Posts
The arguement about "wage-slave labor" in China is flawed. Someone referenced how Chinese workers live in the dorms in rooms with 5 other people. If you ever visit Shenzhen or Dongguan City, you'll see that this is common practice across all industries.
Dell's suppliers such as Foxconn, ASUS, Delta, LiteOn, Hipro, etc. all have factories down there where girls 16-22 are hand-placing thru-hole components on circuit boards and sending them through the wave soldering process. Most of these girls (and some boys) leave the countryside to come to South China to work for a few years, then return to the countryside to get married. Wal-Mart, Dell, and Macy's suppliers provide thousands of jobs for that Chinese demographic which would otherwise be unemployed. Ditto poorer countries like Bangladesh, Honduras, and El Salvador.
Dell's suppliers such as Foxconn, ASUS, Delta, LiteOn, Hipro, etc. all have factories down there where girls 16-22 are hand-placing thru-hole components on circuit boards and sending them through the wave soldering process. Most of these girls (and some boys) leave the countryside to come to South China to work for a few years, then return to the countryside to get married. Wal-Mart, Dell, and Macy's suppliers provide thousands of jobs for that Chinese demographic which would otherwise be unemployed. Ditto poorer countries like Bangladesh, Honduras, and El Salvador.
Yes, that's why corporations go to those countries- they have all of the leverage just like they did here before the unions cut workers in for a bigger piece of the pie.
The issue is too complex for your simplism and it is too complex for me to point only to athletic shoe manufacturing where the profit per pair of shoes is enormous. I believe labor practices overseas are often exploitive, but that is not always true.
Wasn't it Henry Ford who saw an advantage to paying employees enough that they could consume above subsistence? That view should apply to Asians as well as Americans.
The issue is too complex for your simplism and it is too complex for me to point only to athletic shoe manufacturing where the profit per pair of shoes is enormous. I believe labor practices overseas are often exploitive, but that is not always true.
Wasn't it Henry Ford who saw an advantage to paying employees enough that they could consume above subsistence? That view should apply to Asians as well as Americans.
If any of you think WMT is more or less virtuous than Target or Best Buy or any other big box retailer, then you're naive and bordering on being a moron.
They all get their products from the same manufacturers and they all pay about the same. I work in the supply chain area and TGT imports a higher percentage of it's shipping containers from China than WMT does.
They're all the same. If you believe any different, then you've just fallen prey to TGT's hip marketing or something else.
They all get their products from the same manufacturers and they all pay about the same. I work in the supply chain area and TGT imports a higher percentage of it's shipping containers from China than WMT does.
They're all the same. If you believe any different, then you've just fallen prey to TGT's hip marketing or something else.
Michael Knight
1,000+ Posts
accuratehorn
10,000+ Posts
You are really willing to overlook a lot to purchase anything at WalMart. Other big box stores do some of the same practices, but nothing on the scale of WalMart.
We are supporting terribly expliotative labor practices, exporting our pollution, and engaging in many practices that would be considered immoral and illegal in this country when we patronize WalMart.
If you read about how they negotiate the prices to buy products, you might not want to go there anymore. They go to a village in Chile, China, India, other places, and negotiate the contract down to where the people get practically nothing for their products. Their standard of living isn't raised. Pollution is left behind. Illegal clearing of forests, illegal fishing practices, the list is long.
We don't want to see any of this, we just want cheap consumer items.
I would like more local businesses to survive, so I try to shop in them, although my wife likes some things at Target, and I will go to Lowe's-but I will never set foot in a WalMart again. Because I'm a Communist. And I hate Wolverines.
We are supporting terribly expliotative labor practices, exporting our pollution, and engaging in many practices that would be considered immoral and illegal in this country when we patronize WalMart.
If you read about how they negotiate the prices to buy products, you might not want to go there anymore. They go to a village in Chile, China, India, other places, and negotiate the contract down to where the people get practically nothing for their products. Their standard of living isn't raised. Pollution is left behind. Illegal clearing of forests, illegal fishing practices, the list is long.
We don't want to see any of this, we just want cheap consumer items.
I would like more local businesses to survive, so I try to shop in them, although my wife likes some things at Target, and I will go to Lowe's-but I will never set foot in a WalMart again. Because I'm a Communist. And I hate Wolverines.
Tandoori Horn
25+ Posts
Read the Wal Mart Effect by Charles FishmanThe Link
A couple of things:
- Wal Mart's low prices aren't always comparable. They have required many suppliers to create cheaper lines for Wal Mart. The low price Levi's for example, are in no way, shape, or form the same as the department store Levis. That might be ok for some, but don't pretend it is the same thing. Wal Mart's relentless presure on suppliers to reduce costs leads to a cheapening of the product. The low prices aren't only due to wage differential.
- Low prices every day doesn't mean that savvy shoppers don't do well at other outlets. Wal Mart is king of loss leaders and eye popping good deals, but many shoppers do quite well at other stores with only modestly higher prices. Most grocery and general merchandise stores have sale items and loyalty programs that lowers costs for savvy shoppers. Also, many shoppers view a modestly higher price as worthwhile for a more pleasant shopping environment with relatively happy workers.
- An independent study empirically proves that Wal Mart's net, long-term job creation is modest (less than 50 jobs). The Link
- Wal Mart has been sued many times for its hiring and labor practices. Just because many people are desperate for low-wage jobs, doesn't mean that they should be exploited.
Remember Wal Mart's super-patriotic campaigns a few years ago while they were one of the leaders in moving production off shore? It is one thing to go to off shore production, it is another to tout patriotism and a buy American campaign while they are doing it.
Wal Mart does a lot of things right from a business perspective. It wouldn't take much for them to be a better company in a civic and ethical sense.
A couple of things:
- Wal Mart's low prices aren't always comparable. They have required many suppliers to create cheaper lines for Wal Mart. The low price Levi's for example, are in no way, shape, or form the same as the department store Levis. That might be ok for some, but don't pretend it is the same thing. Wal Mart's relentless presure on suppliers to reduce costs leads to a cheapening of the product. The low prices aren't only due to wage differential.
- Low prices every day doesn't mean that savvy shoppers don't do well at other outlets. Wal Mart is king of loss leaders and eye popping good deals, but many shoppers do quite well at other stores with only modestly higher prices. Most grocery and general merchandise stores have sale items and loyalty programs that lowers costs for savvy shoppers. Also, many shoppers view a modestly higher price as worthwhile for a more pleasant shopping environment with relatively happy workers.
- An independent study empirically proves that Wal Mart's net, long-term job creation is modest (less than 50 jobs). The Link
- Wal Mart has been sued many times for its hiring and labor practices. Just because many people are desperate for low-wage jobs, doesn't mean that they should be exploited.
Remember Wal Mart's super-patriotic campaigns a few years ago while they were one of the leaders in moving production off shore? It is one thing to go to off shore production, it is another to tout patriotism and a buy American campaign while they are doing it.
Wal Mart does a lot of things right from a business perspective. It wouldn't take much for them to be a better company in a civic and ethical sense.
Tandoori,
I don't buy that we can convert all of our manufacturing jobs to tech research. Your Lebron James example actually works against you. How many workers can leave the assembly line and play professional basketball? How many can work in the research lab?
We can't save every manufacturing job, but we can encourage the kinds of practices that pay fair wages and increase the chances that Americans will have jobs or that workers overseas will get wages that make them more than wage slaves.
For the record, I'm not pure. I erratically try to do what I preach. I sometimes take the best price, sometimes don't pay attention to where something comes from. I do avoid Walmart because they seem to be the worst toward both their own workers and workers world wide.
OMG! I've spoken for workers! I must be a red.
I don't buy that we can convert all of our manufacturing jobs to tech research. Your Lebron James example actually works against you. How many workers can leave the assembly line and play professional basketball? How many can work in the research lab?
We can't save every manufacturing job, but we can encourage the kinds of practices that pay fair wages and increase the chances that Americans will have jobs or that workers overseas will get wages that make them more than wage slaves.
For the record, I'm not pure. I erratically try to do what I preach. I sometimes take the best price, sometimes don't pay attention to where something comes from. I do avoid Walmart because they seem to be the worst toward both their own workers and workers world wide.
OMG! I've spoken for workers! I must be a red.
one thing that has not been mentioned is one of the main reasons for lower prices at walmart. they have special contracts. walmart is so large and they order so much from manufacturers that they get the cheapest rates so they can sell the items cheaper. it is also the only company in america where by working hard, you can rise up from a cashier to a store manager making a 6 figure salary. there is a lot of crime in walmart parking lots but how about placing a little blame on society. it is funny to me that people blame walmart for the crime. sure, if it is a high crime area, walmart should provide additional security, but i would like to see a study on crime in the surrounding area compared with the crime at the walmart. if a mugging occurred at a walmart parking lot on a certain date, how many other muggings occured in the general area over the same time period. walmart does not bring the crime to the area...the local governments lack of control does.
AggieFactFinder
250+ Posts
guys I really appreciate this informative, level-headed thread. Keep up the good work.
accuratehorn
10,000+ Posts
Ahab has harpooned the great white whale!
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