What will it take for Shaka to survive this year?

FWHORN said:
The economics suggest that regardless of what happens he gets one more year and maybe even two. He may recruit as well as Barnes (open question) but he coaches like Penders and it shows in how his teams perform.
Click to expand...
Please give Penders a little respect. He did the exact opposite of Smart. He took an unwatchable team and made them one of the most entertaining in college basketball. His teams made the NCAA tournament 8/10 years that he was here. Sure Shaka tries... but he fails miserably to implement a similar style. What do I mean? I see nobody comparing Barnes to Kaiser Bob. Yes Barnes is the best coach UT has ever had in basketball and I hope Kaiser Bob is the worst.
 
beijinghorn1 said:
Please give Penders a little respect. He did the exact opposite of Smart. He took an unwatchable team and made them one of the most entertaining in college basketball. His teams made the NCAA tournament 8/10 years that he was here. Sure Shaka tries... but he fails miserably to implement a similar style. What do I mean? I see nobody comparing Barnes to Kaiser Bob. Yes Barnes is the best coach UT has ever had in basketball and I hope Kaiser Bob is the worst.
Click to expand...
Even Weltlich managed to win a conference championship in ‘86.
 
Well we are currently in ninth place in the conference (technically tied with osu but we lost to them) so its not like we are in last. Good thing Billie boy is not in charge, he probably would give Shaka a raise and an extension, hell maybe a guaranteed contract for life.
 
Our losses this year have been by 10, 3, 1, 6, 3, 6 & 2. On the surface that doesn't seem too bad and we are very competitive. However look at some of those losses that are unacceptable and should have been blowout wins. I recall how excited they were to have beaten a very tough WVU team who as it turns out is pretty crappy (8-9, 0-5).

My apathy continues to grow. I actually watched all of the KU game and they played well but lose almost all like those with an occasional win. However, they have this mentality or chip on their shoulders that they can just show up and the lower tier teams they play will just lay down for an easy victory. That's when we get the "we just have to come ready to play" or "we had great practices" excuses always come out. They have ZERO killer instinct almost like they don't really have the desire to play every game hard to win every game they play. That is entirely on Shaka Smart to have them ready.
 
If we could play against everyone else the way we played against Tech and Kansas, we'd finish the conference schedule something like 13-5. :(
 
The whole give Penders respect thing is a little funny. He basically threw the ball out and said to his talented players shoot like crazy. His coaching was junior high level but he had recruited the talent to get away with it most years. The game that stands out most in my mind was in 1991-1992 when I watched Don Haskins take a lesser talented UTEP and coach circles around Penders and beat him. There were a ton of coaches who beat Penders’ teams because Penders was just not a good coach. The fact that Penders made all those tourneys is testament to fact that Texas can and should get basketball talent, it’s why I look at Shaka and see him as another version (admittedly worse) of Penders.

And of course that leaves undiscussed the massive ethical issues Penders has.
 
why I look at Shaka and see him as another version (admittedly worse) of Penders.
Click to expand...

Shaka is basically poor-man’s Penders. I think Smart is getting more talent now than Penders had and is having worse results. The two best coaches we have had in the modern era are Barnes and Lemons. Both had flaws, but they did bring high level basketball coaching. Penders and Smart do not and did not bring that. Their run and shoot is a lower level form of basketball coaching. That said, run and shoot teams can get hot and go on win streaks. UNLV did it in 1990 and won a national title. Arkansas did under Nolan Richardson as well. Shaka even did it with VCU to get to the final four. The problem with that system is they rely a bit on luck and being “hot”. They simply are inconsistent and the vast majority of the time, teams cannot maintain hot streaks 6 games in a row. That said, the UNLV and Arkansas teams still had better fundamentals/plays. The Penders teams had better fundamentals/plays.

What makes Smart’s teams a worse version of Penders is the lack of fundamentals/decent plays aka coaching. I think we have the talent that with even a Penders level of coaching, we could make Elite 8 appearances. I genuinely thought Smart had that ability when we hired him and recruiting would be the problem. I thought we would be in Penders land of making elite 8s now and then, but never really having a true contender team unless we managed a 6 game hot streak. Instead we recruit well, but play a nearly unwatchable, fundamental-less street ball version of the run and shoot. We are like the anti-San Antonio Spurs. Pure fundamentals like the Spurs or with Barnes may not be as exciting as a good run and shoot offense. However, a run and shoot without decent plays or fundamentals has proven far more unwatchable.

The video below on another boards sums up our complete lack of coaching:



Anyway, I think everyone agrees that despite the success, Penders was not a high level coach like Barnes or Lemons. However, he was a far better coach than Shaka and coached Shaka’s game on a far higher level than Shaka... which is a major indictment of Smart more than anything else.

I could still watch Charlie Strong football, even with Shawn Watson and Shawn Watson may be the most unwatchable football coach on the planet. However, Shaka Smart basketball is somehow even more unwatchable than a Shawn Watson offense, even when we win.



Also, another video from that same place that sums up where we are at.

What Smart does have going for him is he is better than Kaiser Bob. So there’s that I suppose. The moral of Texas basketball is: we fire our best coaches (Barnes and Lemons) and replace them with really terrible hires (Kaiser Bob and Smart).
 
Going back to Barnes last several years till now; how hard is it to make a mid to long range jumper and free throws? Barnes missed on all his chances to make this program break through and be great, primarily the final 4 loss. Even though we've recruited really good players, most of them aren't good shooters. The bottom line is the ball needs to go through the net. Barnes teams were great at defense until Durant and they never got back to it. I think this year needs to play out and Shaka should get another year.
 
utempire said:
Going back to Barnes last several years till now; how hard is it to make a mid to long range jumper and free throws? Barnes missed on all his chances to make this program break through and be great, primarily the final 4 loss. Even though we've recruited really good players, most of them aren't good shooters. The bottom line is the ball needs to go through the net. Barnes teams were great at defense until Durant and they never got back to it. I think this year needs to play out and Shaka should get another year.
Click to expand...
Probably does deserve another year but if we show up and still can’t shoot consistently that’s gonna look really really bad
 
Possibility/probability:

Horns either don't make the big dance, or barely get in. Then, one and done. Unless somehow this team does some miracle improvement.

Barnes' DayGlo UT makes the Final Four or better.

The media will have a field day.
 
blonthang said:
Possibility/probability:

Horns either don't make the big dance, or barely get in. Then, one and done. Unless somehow this team does some miracle improvement.

Barnes' DayGlo UT makes the Final Four or better.

The media will have a field day.
Click to expand...

Current way too early bracketology has us as an 11 seed playing Louisville. Not sure we have enough wins remaining to maintain an 11 seed. Regardless, if we do make it in there's not enough gumption in this team to do anything with a bid.
 
In case anyone was wondering what Barnes was up to these days - will be interesting to see how this season ends up for him

 
In the recent poll which Barnes' Vols rose to No. 1, with the losses by Dookies, Meatchicken, and UVA, Texas knocked OU out of the rankings, but note those also getting votes....

...Texas State 2, Murray State 2, Wofford 1

The Bobcats, the freaking BOBCATS, and WORSE, THOSE SCRUFFY MONGREL TERRIERS of Wofford are getting votes and, Texas? NONE.

Maybe that's the answer to this post's opening question: What will it take for Shaka to survive? Uh, maybe getting more "also receiving votes" than the WoofWoofs of Wofford.

Damn!
 
Right now, I would agree that Smart has under performed; his teams have failed in unacceptable situations.
However, and I know its a long shot, he could still turn this around with a string of wins that gets his team into the NCAA, and then wins a game there.

1. The defense is good enough.
2. The effort and heart is good enough.
3. The offensive discipline and plan, and execution is not good enough.
4. The free throw shooting has improved to an acceptable level.
5. The recruiting is good enough.

Four out of five is not bad. But the one of the five that's lagging is, unfortunately, probably the most important of the bunch. Shaka has to coach like his job depended on it.
 
Joe Fan said:
In case anyone was wondering what Barnes was up to these days - will be interesting to see how this season ends up for him
Click to expand...
Not having to play a Big 12 schedule has helped him. SEC is really down this year, with UK not in the top ten, etc. Rick is a good coach, I wish him the very best.
 
caryhorn said:
Right now, I would agree that Smart has under performed; his teams have failed in unacceptable situations.
However, and I know its a long shot, he could still turn this around with a string of wins that gets his team into the NCAA, and then wins a game there.

1. The defense is good enough.
2. The effort and heart is good enough.
3. The offensive discipline and plan, and execution is not good enough.
4. The free throw shooting has improved to an acceptable level.
5. The recruiting is good enough.

Four out of five is not bad. But the one of the five that's lagging is, unfortunately, probably the most important of the bunch. Shaka has to coach like his job depended on it.
Click to expand...
Dare I say, that this offense may only go as Febres goes. If he is hitting the three ball I think they can basically hang with anyone. I feel he will be key for the rest of the year and whether the Horns have a winning conference record or not. JMHO!
 
caryhorn said:
Not having to play a Big 12 schedule has helped him. SEC is really down this year, with UK not in the top ten, etc. Rick is a good coach, I wish him the very best.
Click to expand...

Good time for a historical reminder on Barnes' results while here?

From 2002 through 2008 (except '05 and '07) we won multiple tourney games
However, all that pretty much stopped in 2009. And it was bad from there forward

C6hr9vkVsAAv2qY.jpg



C6hr-bXVoAAKhSX.jpg
 
He was not the coach in 2016. Have we been better off with or without Barnes? Has Tennessee been better off with or without Barnes?
 
I think we've pretty much established that making the field of 64 is about as good as the University of Texas can expect from its basketball program. Anything else beyond that is icing on the cake. Barnes had a good run of getting to the Sweet 16 with some pretty damn incredible guard play, but beyond those years, we had some pretty awful early-round losses in the tournament as well.

I'm fine with making the tournament year after year as long as we're competing for a "second weekend" spot under the lights occasionally. Programs like Kansas that don't accept anything less than a Sweet 16... that's just not where we're at. This is akin to Kansas getting to the Orange Bowl that one year. It's not where Kansas is supposed to be, much like the year we went to the Final Four. Hopefully we're not as bad at basketball as KU is at football, though.
 
I will answer the title: make the tourney. Barnes did it 16/17, Penders did it 8/10, Smart 2/3. Long term 2nd round of tourney or better at least this is the standard that Barnes and Penders more or less met.
 
beijinghorn1 said:
I will answer the title: make the tourney. Barnes did it 16/17, Penders did it 8/10, Smart 2/3. Long term 2nd round of tourney or better at least this is the standard that Barnes and Penders more or less met.
Click to expand...

To me, Penders' teams were the most fun as a fan. Abe Lemons' teams come in second. Abe in person was as funny as a professional comedian. But I also am willing to admit that both coaches had to go when their times came. People say Penders had become an alcoholic at the end and Abe had way too many academic flares going off.

Barnes raised the recruiting bar and took some of his squads further than any other coach we have ever had. But certain losses really stung (Syr, Memphis, Ariz, LSU and the one-and-done with KD in particular stand out to me). My sense is that underachieving was to Barnes as overachieving was to Penders. I know there are a couple of passionate Barnes defenders here who might explode with that. So be it.

As to the current team, the only equivalent I have for the way I feel now about these Shaka teams is the Bob Weltlich era, which was barely batter than having no team at all. Maybe not even that.
 
I have given Texas basketball some thought, the current team, Shaka Smart, Rick Barnes, Tom Penders, Kaiser Bob, Abe, KD, the new arena, recruiting, etc..... I have decided I am glad Texas baseball is less than a month away!
 
I'm baffled by some of y'all saying that Shaka "deserves" another year. Really? What has he done to deserve anything? IMO, he's done a horrible job over 4 years. He's recruited very well, but the end product is what counts: wins and at the very least putting a competitive team on the floor every night. He's failed miserably on those points. He hasn't shown that he can actually coach at the major college level. His Texas teams have been disorganized disasters on the court.... no clear sense of what to do, tons of turnovers, and poor shooting. He's had NBA-caliber players including lottery picks, and he still can't win consistently. That is a big red flag. And he's been paid millions. UT owes Shaka nothing. Shaka should be thanking Texas. I think Shaka will be here next year because of his contract. But in terms of job performance at Texas, Shaka should be fired.
 
Joe Fan said:
To me, Penders' teams were the most fun as a fan. Abe Lemons' teams come in second. Abe in person was as funny as a professional comedian. But I also am willing to admit that both coaches had to go when their times came. People say Penders had become an alcoholic at the end and Abe had way too many academic flares going off.

Barnes raised the recruiting bar and took some of his squads further than any other coach we have ever had. But certain losses really stung (Syr, Memphis, Ariz, LSU and the one-and-done with KD in particular stand out to me). My sense is that underachieving was to Barnes as overachieving was to Penders. I know there are a couple of passionate Barnes defenders here who might explode with that. So be it.

As to the current team, the only equivalent I have for the way I feel now about these Shaka teams is the Bob Weltlich era, which was barely batter than having no team at all. Maybe not even that.
Click to expand...
I agree with this post 100%. Most exciting basketball ever at Texas was the BMW years. Who can ever forget Panama Myers block against Purdue or Lance Blanks incredible athletic ability?
 
One of my favorite memories of the Penders' era came against Arkansas in the Drum in 91 or 92. I can't remember the name of the Hog player that looked more like a fat OL than a college basketball player. (Oliver Miller ?)

Penders got me quality seats to bring an Ohio State commit with me from Houston. The game was close and fat boy got fouled. As he goes to the line, Lance Gunn comes running down the aisle past us with a huge serving of ice cream to offer it to him as a distraction.

Gunn looked bigger and meaner in street clothes than he did on the field. For a moment I thought Miller was going to leave the game and take the ice cream.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Weekly Prediction Contest

* Predict HORNS-AGGIES *
Sat, Nov 30 • 6:30 PM on ABC

Recent Threads

Prediction Results Threads

2024 Schedules

Back
Top