What needs to be done to make Big-12 desirable?

[Horn_in_Toronto]

I wonder what can be done to make the Big-12 the most desirable conference in college athletics?

Well several ideas came to mind, not all of them are realistic, but I would like to hear from others, Longhorn fans and others too (in fact I hope many 'others' have something to say)

1) Set up a CTC like academic funding system - only richer

2) Do a complete TV revenue sharing (not just tiers 1 and 2)

3) Ensure all schools get equal Tier 1 and 2 TV time

4) Follows from 2, set up a conference network with equal revenue sharing. This network once it goes national, should be able to carry tier 2 programming as well

5) 'Have' programs to give a certain % of their annual athletic revenues to a conference pot, for the conference to distribute to 'have not' programs which have to apply for funding from this pot for clearly stated reasons.

6) To make 5 fair for the 'haves', the 'have nots' have to offer something in return, the conference sets rules on what the 'have nots' have to offer. This will not only make it fair for all, but make the 'have nots' think hard about applying for money, instead of just treating it as a cash cow.

7) All schools assign tier 1, 2, and 3 media rights to the conference for a certain period of time, which is automatically extended, unless a school explicity wants to opt out.

Like I said not all these are practical or realistic, and some are patently unfair to the so-called "haves" but they would make the conference attractive to many schools.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

The exit of aggy can do nothing but help over time. That was a GREAT first step.

 

[mcbrett]

Let's review the facts- We lost:

Colorado,
Nebraska
Texas atm


We are considering: TCU, BYU, SMU, UH. We might lose Missouri.


Who here would make a trade for the teams we lost in exchange for the teams we might get?? This conference, in my opionion, if it continues down this path will be at Big East levels in football- maybe 3 good teams (OSU/TCU/TT, Texas &, OU) and our little cousins.

The Big 12 will be a joke, and that is why it is dying. I don't want to rescue it- it's too late now. We lost the upper echelon of Big 12 North, we lost the 3rd most prestigious school in the South, and the replacements are a tier or two below what we had. It's over already.

 

[El Sapo]

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[cygnus]

To me, there is very little the Big12 can and could have done to make it more desirable.

The conference is going through this transition/implosion not because of its revenue model, Texas' greed and arrogance, or the LHN. It is happening because of one simple thing: money.

The Big12 cannot compete financially with the Pac12, Big10, or the SEC because it does not have the population base that those conferences have, even before the defections of CU and NU. This means that the other three conferences can command more TV dollars than the big12, even if they all used the same media and revenue models.

It is this fact above anything else that is causing the defections from the conference. These schools can get significantly more money elsewhere. All this other stuff about Texas' greed and arrogance and the LHN are just convenient excuses to cover up their true reasons for leaving. And in the end, I can't blame them.

My two cents.

 

[TexasTower]

No offense, but a population argument has no legs. The B1G is losing population by the second. Texas' population alone can carry a conference.

 

[Horn_in_Toronto]

yeah, I agree, the Big-12 is toast!

 

[cygnus]

Demographics may be changing, but that doesn't change the fact that the Big10 right now can command more TV dollars than the Big12. The Texas market is huge, but is still smaller than the combined markets of the Big10.

 

[majorwhiteapples]

Share the Weatlh!!

Why have we built our brand to one of the top in the nation if we are just going to give it away!!!

Sounds very similar to President Obama!

In the 1990's the unequal revenue sharing didn't benefit Texas like it did some other schools. We turned it around and they did nothing. We agree to share Tier I and II like the rest of the nation but keep our Tier III, like the rest of the nation, what else do they want?

They are just big ******* and can't play with the big boys.

As long as you have OU and Texas, you have a Tier 1 conference.

 

[mcbrett]

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[El Sapo]

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[utempire]

The population argument is too general and could shift back in the future. Not joining the big because of that is not a good reason. The sec is probably out, the pac 12 probably still a possibility, just join the big and be done with it. Keep the ou game if they go somewhere else. There you have one of the toughest schedules in the country every year. People will want to see UT play Michigan, PSU, osu, Wisconsin, nu, and MSU. I want to see those games. I think our fans at DKR want to see more big matchups. Good matchups equal excited and loud fans. Why keep the big 12 together short term when it is probably going away. A long term big 12 would include teams nobody cares about and might leave anyway later on.

 

[ViperHorn]

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[PecosBill]

The Big 12 is already desirable in terms of competition, geography, time zone and media rights.

Look at the Jayhawk Network Tier 3 TV rights and say that KU is not a money maker, FB and BB. Florida, Texas, BYU all have 3rd tier networks in place and all the others will follow that business model shortly. see SoonerVision, KSU etc.

The LHN will give UT academics $30M min over the next 5 years and Powers is fully aware of what that is worth.

Add BYU and Boise State regardless of what Mizzo decides and then work on 3rd Tier networks for each remaining member.

The Tier 1 contract is up for renewal in 2015 and it will be a big increase just like the Pac 12 deal is for very inferior content. Look at what Fox was willing to pay for the 2nd Tier rights last year.

Big 12 will be fine and extremely profitable for the next 10 years once the adjustments are made for 2012.

Superconferences as a vehicle for transition to Playoff system will take 10 years to evolve and probably will not benefit the majority of the Div 1 schools. The fans will like the idea but the schools getting left behind will lose revenue for their programs.

BOR and Presidents will vote their pocketbooks.

 

[PecosBill]

Another factor that favors the Big 12 is the legislatures of the state schools. TX/TT, OU/OSU, KU/KS and ISU are all looking to cut taxes at all levels of education due to budget constraints in todays economy.

Adding taxpayer funds or tuition funds to make up for a loss of conference/TV funds is not going to sit well with the voters or the BOR regardless of what the fans want.

 

[mcbrett]

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[dthree36]

More Desirable? Uh... Playing Texas and OU is enough Desire. The Money part is the problem. The Big 12 will survive with sub par members. The real survival is about how many $$$ the conference can bring with new members. Its about the television sets and not the competition. If the 12 dies, its because the TV contract was not strong enough.

 

[Hook 'Em Danno]

Lingerie football?

 

[majorwhiteapples]

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[PecosBill]

mcbrett - If I was able I would have a 25 team super conference made up of the top 25 programs in the country such as AL, LSU. OU, TX, OSU, WIS, tOSU, MI, USC. OR, FSU, FL, AU, VT, BSU etc with a play in from the non 25 to add new teams when a school is on probation or on hard times.

Only the top 2-3 schools from the current conferences would qualify for the BIG 25.

This is not realistic because only about 7 schools would survive long term. UT, OU, USC, AL, LSU, FL, OSU, OR etc because it would be a meat grinder and survival would be dificult playing a top 25 school each week. Even the SEC needs Vandy, KY, etc to play/survive a season.

What I was referring to in the desirability of the BIG 12 was that it works for the conference menbers not just TXOU.

Make it work for 10 -12 members of which 1-3 have a real chance at the MNC on a regular basis. The other members need a way to fund their programs thru TV contracts.

According to USA Today only 22 Div 1 schools are self funding in college athletics the other 100+ schools rely on student fees charged to all students (just like tuition) and the taxpayer.

I really only care that the stadium is full on Sat and that the away games are on TV in primetime to be happy as a hornfan. Playing AZ, ASU, WA, WSU, OSU, CAL, CU, UCLA and Utah on the west coast has no appeal to me.

Schedule USC and OR for a quality ooc game and a quality BCS game along with the Big 12 and I will be a happy season ticket holder.

The attraction of away conference games on the west coast is very limited for me. We go to Dallas each Oct and sometimes to LA in Jan but add'l conference travel is not a plus.

 

[general35]

if it continues down this path will be at Big East levels in football- maybe 3 good teams (OSU/TCU/TT, Texas &, OU) and our little cousins.
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That's better than the big 10 which had ohio st and michigan as the only two good teams. now they only have one, wisconsin, with michigan starting to return.

 

[TheGallopinGoose]

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[TheGallopinGoose]

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[PecosBill]

In the current TV contract for the Big 12 ESPN pays $60M/yr for tier 1 and Fox pays $90M/yr for tier 2.

When the tier 1 contract expires in 2015 it will be rebid and most TV $ analysts say to will be in line with the Pac 12 new contract rights of $250M/yr combined so say ESPN pays $200M/yr+

The existing BIG 12 content is superior to the PAC 12 content and will be priced accordingly and it is in the central time zone so nationwide eyeballs are in play not regional.

The new tv contract will equalize the conference monies and the tier 3 LHN type deals will make each member stronger.

FYI Tier 3 rights in 2009 paid:
KU $7.3M
OSU $8.4M
Mizzo $4.0M
KSU $3.3M
ISU $2.6M
TX $337K (thousand) before LHN
Big 12 avg $2.5M

Tier 3 is the future of incremental revenue and conference staibility for Big 12.

 

[horn4jc]

I think we need to get back to reality. Big XII is the best conference for Texas and OU. Going elsewhere will not help either one. Personally, I would like it if Texas and OU joined the SEC and be in a division with LSU, Arky, A&M. But that's not happening.

I think the Big XII is taking positive steps to ensure stability. Sharing Tier 1 and 2 revenue is a positive step. It's in the best interest of every member that every feels they have a fair shake to compete if they do the right things.

Missouri leaving is not yet a foregone conclusion, but its probably going to happen. But for the sake of stabilty, I hope they come to their senses and come down from their over inflated sense of self-importance and commit to the Big XII.

 

[mcbrett]

Ok- look, our conference is dead as many agree. You don't trade Colorado, Nebraska and aTm for UH, SMU and TCU and think you still have the same product.

If I had a magic wand- and really wanted to save the Big 12- I would call back Nebraska, Colorado and aTm. I would swap Arkansas for Baylor, and tell Baylor to call up someone else at a more suitable conference. If I was really a bad-***, I would swap Iowa for Iowa State.

But you know what? I am no magician- and none of this will ever happen. So, with that in mind- let's ditch this trailer park for where the people, money and tv contracts are.

 

[XOVER]

I thought I would take my shot at each of Horn in Toronto's points.1) Set up a CTC like academic funding system - only richer.I absolutely agree with this point. Too bad the conference is already so deteriorated, but it's still a great idea, IMO.
2) Do a complete TV revenue sharing (not just tiers 1 and 2).

I don't agree with this point. I'm okay with sharing Tiers 1 & 2, but I do like Texas' (and the SEC's) idea of not sharing Tier 3. Otherwise, as Dodds points out, the affiliate will tend to "warehouse" Tier 3 programming, which is to say, not show it. Let each each individual school promote its Tier 3 sports if it can. I might be okay with sharing a part of Tier 3 income as a percentage, or past a certain income level, but right now, I like Texas' idea of developing Tier 3 income on its own.

3) Ensure all schools get equal Tier 1 and 2 TV time.

This is totally unrealistic. So a network has to show as many games for the club with no wins as it does for the undefeated club that's in the running for the NC? No way. Your TV contract will be worth very little money if you made the network show as many Iowa State games as it shows OU games.

4) Follows from 2, set up a conference network with equal revenue sharing. This network once it goes national, should be able to carry tier 2 programming as well.

I agree with a conference network, absolutely. Like the BTN. I'm okay sharing Tier 2 revenue equally.

5) 'Have' programs to give a certain % of their annual athletic revenues to a conference pot, for the conference to distribute to 'have not' programs which have to apply for funding from this pot for clearly stated reasons.

No. The "have" programs have bills to pay, too. Share Tier 1 & 2 equally, do not share Tier 3 (or at least not equally), and that's that. The poor will always be among you.

6) To make 5 fair for the 'haves', the 'have nots' have to offer something in return, the conference sets rules on what the 'have nots' have to offer. This will not only make it fair for all, but make the 'have nots' think hard about applying for money, instead of just treating it as a cash cow.

Like what do the "have nots" have to offer? I don't see any realistic way to make this altruistic rule work.

7) All schools assign tier 1, 2, and 3 media rights to the conference for a certain period of time, which is automatically extended, unless a school explicitly wants to opt out.

I've made my position known with respect to Tier 3. A lot of conference so assign all rights over, as you suggest. However, Texas whole point is that they don't want to be in a conference that requires the carte blanche sign-over. Would such a rule make a conference "stronger"? Maybe. But the SEC seems to be doing okay.

 

[Ramius]

Clearly define "tier III"

Don't tell me in August that a game to be played in October is tier III.

 

[Pentaconta]

OK, since TV dollars are where it's at, here is my modest proposal for saving the Big XII. Add the following teams:

Rutgers
San Diego State
Florida International
Northern Illinois
Temple
San Jose State
SMU
Rice

After the impending departure of Mizzou, this makes the Big XII the first 16 team superconference. We add the NYC, Southern California, South Florida, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Northern California TV markets to the Big XII footprint. Additionally, we shore up Houston and DFW from SEC interference.

Come on, Deloss. Do it.

 

[mcbrett]

I live/lived in both San Diego and NYC. I can assure you NO ONE watches Rutgers and SDSU on TV.

The Big 12 is dead. It's over. There are no suitable replacements- as they are all in a Super Conference.

It's not about what crappy team can we ask to join, with poor schools that don't fit us well, smallish fan bases and odd locations. It's about TV rights- the ones that you can negotiate better with big time programs like USC, UCLA, and Arizona. Or, similar for the Big 10 schools.