USA runner waves Mexican flag

2003TG: the Olympics are about countries? To statist nativists like yourself perhaps, but I watch to see who can jump the furthest, run the fastest, vault the highest and throw heavy objects the furthest. And I don't care where they come from.

Have to admit I rooted for the Spanish flag carriers against the loathesome Kobe and James but that had nothing to do with nationalities. I just like to see those two aholes lose. Too bad.

IF I were a participant I like to think I would wave a black flag or maybe my underwear. Look up Ambrose Bierce's definition of a flag in the Devil's Dictionary.

Flags got their origin in battle standards so the poor peasants would know which banner to get killed under for their masters.

By the next Olympics I expect the whole show will be so commercialized that the US flag will bear a white stripe with the Nike logo and a star line spelling out the name of one of the banks which own the country.
 
Huis, thanks for the history lesson, but yes, the Olympics are all about the countries. There is a medal count for... Countries. Each athlete wears a uniform sporting different colors and logos that represent... Countries. At each medal cerimony, flags are raised for the medal winners representing.... Countries....

We could probably go on, but the Olympics over and over and over again about: COUNTRIES. NATIONAL PRIDE. Again, it comes down to representing your country.

Now, is there more to it than that? Of course silly billy!

But this discussion is about an American athlete who represented the USA, HIS country, who also felt the need to try and bring attention to some other country, a country that he is not a citizen of.

Its a simple discussion. Its not the end all or the end of the world, but in this discussion, I dont feel it was appropriate, given the spirit of the Olympics, which we have established repeatedly, is about countries, for an American athlete to be pimping a country he doesnt represent.

Fair to disagree, obviously.
 
And to be clear, had Leo run for Mexico, I would have been thrilled still with his performance because he is a Texas alum, and that final 100 meters was bad ***. I dont hate the guy.

There was that Dominican that went to USC who won Gold. He chose to represent the Domincan Republic. No sweat. I get that. Just dont trot out an American flag while youre at it. Pick a country and stick with it.
 
So if you want to watch it to see how different countries are doing, like Hitler did, go ahead. But 300 million americans are not trying to be the best hammer thrower in the contest or vault the highest. I wouldn't bother to watch if they were. I am modestly interested in which individual does what. The sprinters are usually more interesting to me and back when american boxers won medals and we got to watch them I liked that. Now americans are just practice for other boxers from other countries and they did not seem to be interested in showing a lot of it, if any. It may be that the quality of the fighters has gone down but I suspect that a lot of the audience that would watch americans winning medals would not be there for two great fighters from the Ukraine and Argentina.

For you people who need to see every event in the world wrapped in flags of the various nations so you can do your chants and feel some solidarity with the best best synchronized water tub thumping team, have at it.

By the way, did anybody besides me find NBC's coverage of world quality bad? Aside from trying to fit all the athletes into the same three narratives, they acted like there was some drama to what they were showing; six or eight hours after they knew what the results were. Pathetic.
 
The reference to Hitler was not just a throwaway. Hitler is the guy who really amped it up as a national thing. Before that they had some flags and national teams, etc, but the Fuhrer is the one who turned up the volume big time re nationalism and the Olympics. Read a book, any book, about the Olympics or Hitler, or any of several which have been written specifically about Hitler and the Olympics.

Hitler was really into nationalistic pageantry and the Olympics and the party congress at Nuremberg were the two prime examples. Interestingly enough he got his ideas for mass rallies from a book written by an American about-----college football. He loved the whole thing, especially halftime.

One wonders what he would have thought of the "Superbowl" halftime orgies of bad taste.
 
Huis, Im so glad we can thank Hitler for the rise of Nationalism and Patriotism... that seems to be your implication, and obviously there are books that prove that is the case... Wow.

And I just saw Russia defeat Brazil in men's volleyball. Shockingly I didnt see any Russian players go grab a Khazak or Ukrainian flag and start waving it around because its part of their heritage. Prolly would be in poor taste to do so, you reckon?

But then again, there are some here that dont think national pride should have anything to do with the Olympics, because it would somehow give Hitler some credibility. Or something like that....
 
Exactly. The Olympics arent about culture or heritage. National flags represent, again, political entities. Cultures transcend made up national borders, but that is what these athletes represent, made up national borders.

Leo Manzano was not representing Mexico, the flag he was waving alongside the American flag. He was representing the USA. His culture is irrelevent as far as the Olympics goes.

And by waving the Mexican flag he was not shining light on his heritage, but rather a political entity that his parents shunned and left when he was a child.

I know why he did what he did, but it wasnt appropriate because he wasnt representing Mexico. He gave credit to a country that didnt do anything for him. Nothing.

Its not like Nike sponsoring an athlete. Mexico didnt sponsor him or give him training or any other incentive. His cultural heritage transcends whatever borders the nation of Mexico lays claim to.

Im watching the closing cerimony pre-show right now, and it is ALL about USA! USA! USA!

The whole things is about national pride.

I would love for Leo to run for Mexico in four years. No problem at all with it. But if he does, he shouldnt bust out a US flag in my opinion. I think that would be silly.
 
I agree with you. However, some athletes see the Olympics as an individual accomplishment. They compete as individuals to become the best athletes in the world. They don't put the representation of their country very high on their list of priorities.
 
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So was Leo representing the nation of Mexico? By waving the flag of Mexico, yes he was, which doesnt make sense.

Nothing wrong with his heritage, but he has a clear conflict of interest in what nation he is representing, or at least he doesnt realize that is what he is doing.
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2003 -- It seems a little arrogant to me to say that a symbolic expression is not communicating what the communicator intended.

Respect and affection for Mexico seems entirely appropriate and defensible to me. It's not an either or. I'm a naturalized Texan, but I still prefer the enchiladas of my native New Mexico to TexMex.
 
I believe that he has the right and freedom to wave any flag that he wants, representing any country that he is qualified to represent.

The people that don't like it have the right or freedom to say they don't like it, that is what the United State of America is based on and what allows it to be one of the greatest nations in the world.

I personnally think it was bad taste, but hey I wear makeup, floppy shoes and big red nose nose to work with a flower that squirts water!!!!

20 days 9 hours and 30 minutes until kickoff!!!!
 
The reason you didn't see a Ukrainian flag waved by a Russian is because the Ukraine is an independent country and they are not real fond of Russia as a whole. Ukrainians live in the Ukraine.

Hitler did not invent nationalism or patriotism, he was just one of the prime abusers.

If you want to worship a nation, have at it. Nobody is trying to stop you. I like this country and am very happy to have been born in Texas in the US. As a white male you can't hardly do any better, except for the incessant wars.

But any good thing can be overdone. Flag waving is one that is out of control. I get to salute the flag at baseball games, boxing matches (?) and every time some politician shows up.

One group whose meetings I attend actually does a pledge of allegiance to the flag of Texas. I am not sure what that is about; the genocide against the Indians maybe, or the centuries long racial discrimination against blacks or ethnic hatred for Mexicans?

Beats me. Maybe it is our prowess in getting teenage girls pregnant or our league leading rate of unwed mothers. Or the pathetic education system.


If some Boston Irishman won a medal and waved the US and Irish flags, would it bother you? How about a Jewish American waiving the US and Israeli flag?

Maybe it is because the guy waved a Mexican flag and Texans have a history of disliking Mexico and Mexicans?

Probably just my "liberal" coming out in suggesting such a thing. Playing the "race card" in a country and state infamous for racism is such bad form.
 
"Maybe it is because the guy waved a Mexican flag and Texans have a history of disliking Mexico and Mexicans? "

This is so lame and silly. The poster should be ashamed of trying to inflame with that tripe

go back to OP
Most of the entire post is a writer quoted ( except for 2 sentences of my own, one at opening and one at closing) and who is NOT from Texas.
not even a very good try
 
Mexico didn't persecute and burn Irish American farms and kill innocent Irish Americans that were settling the land? You may need to do some history research before you proclaim the one way street in persecution.
 
Wow, huis, you crammed a whole lot of hate into that post.

It must suck for you that you have to be a citizen of such a rotten counrty and a rotten state, when you could have been born into one of those squeaky clean countries that has never oppressed anyone, never committed acts of violence or attrocity and never taken land that belonged to someone else.

The good thing is that you'll have a REALLY short list to choose from if you ever decided to move to one!
 
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