Turkey - Libya

Perhaps such matters should trump (pun fully intended) each nation's own selfish economic desires.
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That is the same rhetorical device Nazis and Fascists used against individuals to pursue their national goals. Now the US should use that logic to get other nations to do what we want?

I get it. It isn't good for Germany to be beholden to Russia. That is their choice though. Left to their own, they will work to maintain a cost competitive natural gas supply.
 
Monahorns said:
The purpose of NATO is to direct buying patterns of German companies and people? That is some totalitarian stuff right there. .....
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Monahorns said:
That is the same rhetorical device Nazis and Fascists used against individuals to pursue their national goals. ...
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You used to be so much better than this
What happened to you?

images
 
Mona
" It isn't good for Germany to be beholden to Russia. That is their choice though."

It is their choice except for NATO and them using our money and military to keep them safe.
Do you not think they have any responsibility to NATO and or us?
 
As a nation, we have to weigh our own economic interests vs our broad interest in having a (sort-of) peaceful Europe and world.
 
Chop said:
As a nation, we have to weigh our own economic interests vs our broad interest in having a (sort-of) peaceful Europe and world.
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Agree. But I would argue that a peaceful, stable Western Europe is in our own (selfish) economic interest
 
Joe Fan said:
This latest news of the capitulation by CNN in the Sandman defamation suit is on point. You and your pals piled on the Covington kids, following the lead of CNN, the WAPO and the NYT. All of you were wrong. You were told you were wrong in here, at the time, with facts, but wouldn't listen. You wouldnt consider it. Why? Because you only wanted to listen to and believe what CNN was saying. You refused to consider the alternative set of facts which turned out, once again, to be the correct set of facts. This happens all the time with you guys. CNN was shoveling bullshyte down your piehole, weren't they?

One good aspect is that this settlement is going to encourage more suits like this. Which I think is great. Not only do attorneys need the work but we can hope that these future actions will eventually drive 'fake news' back into the hole from which it came. You probably dont think this is "the ticket" either. But try asking Gawker about it. Good luck finding hem.
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I thought quiet settlements were done as a cost saving measure and did not convey "guilt" or "innocence". I'm sure there is a NDA so no one will know. I still can watch that and think it's just an unfortunate situation that no one handled well. Maybe if we could just get rid of the red hats as a symbol we could all get along better. They've become an aggressive symbol in my mind's eye.
 
OUBubba said:
I thought quiet settlements were done as a cost saving measure and did not convey "guilt" or "innocence". I'm sure there is a NDA so no one will know. I still can watch that and think it's just an unfortunate situation that no one handled well. Maybe if we could just get rid of the red hats as a symbol we could all get along better. They've become an aggressive symbol in my mind's eye.
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With this case, you have to remember that the judge let discovery go forward (I think that was back in Feb). So CNN's chance to have it dismissed by motion already came and went and they have been in discovery for 10-11 months. CNN's offer to settle probably reflects their own assessment of their own position at this point based on that discovery. Keep in mind there are many forms of discovery besides depositions, in this case, probably electronic communications (texts, email and so on) and perhaps meeting notes, etc. Plus, there may have been some admissions (interrogatories). Add to this the task of defending to a jury against a sympathetic plaintiff who was unmercifully railroaded by a gigantic, faceless multinational corporation. Also, it is possible something(s) came out in discovery that, even though it might not directly reflect upon liability, might be nonetheless be embarrassing to CNN that they do not want to risk being published. There can be all sorts of reasons to settle. But to me, given the timing, it came at this time because of CNN's own assessment of its position after some discovery was completed.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
They are just hats. If leftist ******* are triggered by them, that's the problem and fault of the *******, not the people who wear MAGA hats.
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I think it goes both ways. Many on the left simply look and raise an eyebrow. My next door neighbor is a prince of a man. Godly, wealthy because of his grit/grind, would give the shirt of his back, serves at his church, etc. If we die my youngest will go live there. He had on Trump 2020 hat and it made me sad. I think no less of him. He's just better than that. He's SO much of a better person than the man that the hat purports to support. Some look at the red hat as a white hood and I don't concur with that assessment. On the flip side, many wear the silly hat to support their POTUS (despite his philandering/lying/cheating/etc.). A small portion put it on like they're putting on a battering ram.
 
OUBubba said:
I think it goes both ways. Many on the left simply look and raise an eyebrow. My next door neighbor is a prince of a man. Godly, wealthy because of his grit/grind, would give the shirt of his back, serves at his church, etc. If we die my youngest will go live there. He had on Trump 2020 hat and it made me sad. I think no less of him. He's just better than that. He's SO much of a better person than the man that the hat purports to support. Some look at the red hat as a white hood and I don't concur with that assessment. On the flip side, many wear the silly hat to support their POTUS (despite his philandering/lying/cheating/etc.). A small portion put it on like they're putting on a battering ram.
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Bubba,

Like the blues brothers, Trump is on a mission from God. Your neighbor likely sees it that way.
 
mchammer said:
Bubba,

Like the blues brothers, Trump is on a mission from God. Your neighbor likely sees it that way.
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In the Bible God worked through a lot of men who were far from perfect. If Bubba is a believer he should take that into consideration.
 
Garmel said:
In the Bible God worked through a lot of men who were far from perfect. If Bubba is a believer he should take that into consideration.
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Those men changed. I see no evidence of any "Godly" mission by this guy. His daily interactions with people are not Godly. Heck, just his twitter feed is disgusting.
 
OUBubba said:
Those men changed
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those men repeatedly failed.

Stop looking to Trump to be your example of behavior and theology. He's the POTUS. Nothing less ... nothing more. He's the guy we need right now ... for all his baggage. At least he didn't attend school on a foreign visa however that happened with the last guy.

Trump is right where it matters as POTUS. As priest? meh.
 
OUBubba said:
Those men changed. I see no evidence of any "Godly" mission by this guy. His daily interactions with people are not Godly. Heck, just his twitter feed is disgusting.
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And you're perfect too? Like how you tell others to **** off? I've done it too. None of us here are perfect and are flawed.

Read John 8:7
 
OUBubba said:
I think it goes both ways. Many on the left simply look and raise an eyebrow. My next door neighbor is a prince of a man. Godly, wealthy because of his grit/grind, would give the shirt of his back, serves at his church, etc. If we die my youngest will go live there. He had on Trump 2020 hat and it made me sad. I think no less of him. He's just better than that. He's SO much of a better person than the man that the hat purports to support. Some look at the red hat as a white hood and I don't concur with that assessment. On the flip side, many wear the silly hat to support their POTUS (despite his philandering/lying/cheating/etc.). A small portion put it on like they're putting on a battering ram.
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I will stipulate that there are some rednecks who wear the hat hoping to offend, as long as you stipulate there are people going out of their way, just itching to be offended by something and a MAGA hat is a prime target for them.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
I will stipulate that there are some rednecks who wear the hat hoping to offend, as long as you stipulate there are people going out of their way, just itching to be offended by something and a MAGA hat is a prime target for them.
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Oh God yes, I agree. I stipulate. Hook'em!
 
You used to be so much better than this
What happened to you?
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My views have been the same, but Trump hasn't really pursued war before.

Economic freedom, political freedom, national sovereignty, decentralization, free trade, against foreign interventions.

Granted the situation is starting to settle down.
 
It is their choice except for NATO and them using our money and military to keep them safe.
Do you not think they have any responsibility to NATO and or us?
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The US gets to tell Germany what to do because we have military bases there? You are more informed of things like this. What does the NATO treaty say? If NATO treaty says the US gets to influence Germany's buying habits, then I agree they need to listen to us. If not, then I don't think we have any right.

I think Germany has the responsibility to act within any treaties, legal agreements, or trade deals with the US. Other than that, not sure what authority the US has over them.
 
We don't have the authority to bar Germany from buying or otherwise doing business with Russia. If they want to buy Russian gas, they can do that. That doesn't make it a good friggin' idea, and we can certainly lean on them not to do it. However, if they really want to, we can't stop them. Also, the military base thing is entirely voluntary. We can leave anytime we want, and they can make us leave anytime they want.
 
Yeah. I agree Deez. It's just that Deez said, " If Germany cant see its way through this then NATO must do it for them." Then somebody else said, "Perhaps such matters should trump (pun fully intended) each nation's own selfish economic desire" in response.

That doesn't mean I want Germany to become controlled by Russia. But the kind of language used is scary to me. It started easy enough and turned into using force against another nation.

The US or NATO should warn Germany, show them better alternatives, and even change foreign policy based on it. But that is as far as it should go. Otherwise we become the evil empire.
 
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