Who said jurisdiction didn't matter? I only said the Icelandic registration didn't matter.
Trump!!!
- Thread starter snek
- Start date
Who said jurisdiction didn't matter? I only said the Icelandic registration didn't matter.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
That's the missing perspective from Americans on trade deals.
The leverage we had but eschewed
To fully realize it, there had to be a recognition of it.
Which meant an understanding of those places.
Which was lacking, IMO.
Take China -- how is it run, who runs it? I mean in reality, not on paper.
I dont want to write 10 paragraphs on this but its fairly simple to see.
Then ask, what motivates them? What do they fear most?
For Chinese leaders and profiteers, their greatest fear i losing their place at the trough.
How could that happen?
it would happen through some type of uprising or unrest. There are really no outside threats to China (or only minor ones). The real threat is internal. Those leaders fear that real people of the People's Republic might rise up, take their country back and then throw the bums out (or worse).
OK, so, if you are one of these lucky Chinese party aristocrats or PLA officers, how do you prevent that from ever happening?
You keep the people working. And, it's alot of people. Literally billions.
Given the great transition in China from agrarian to city work, how do you keep all those billions of peasants leaving the country for the city housed, fed and compliant? You need to have jobs. Primarily factory jobs. And lots of them.
What happens if you do not? They get hungry, have no place to go and eventually will revolt.
So, how to you provide them with these jobs?
You need access to the largest consumer markets in the world. The US and the EU.
From our perspective, this reality (OK, perhaps I oversimplified it) gave us leverage.
What did we do with it?
We wasted it.
How? Our trade delegations and negotiators were too narrowly focused on what they wanted, what specific narrow group of US interests they were there to represent and did not see the big picture. They did not look at it from China's perspective. As a result, we wasted a huge opportunity to set the tone of all trade deals with Asia on more favorable terms to the US as a whole. OK, so maybe Boeing or MSFT got some or most of what they wanted, but what about everyone else? What about the US workers affected? What about the technology stolen? What about the US middle class? Was their being able to buy cheap plastic chatzkies at Walmart worth watching jobs disappear, then re-appear in China? As the US middle class shrank, whose middle class grew?
We screwed the pooch. Or, got screwed by the pooch. It predates Obama, of course, but he certainly has been of no help on this front.
And now back to the original question. What they fear out of trump is a trade war. No matter what they may say publicly, this is it. Everyone suffers in a trade war. There will be businesses lost, recessions, bankruptcies and other economic calamity. But, here is the thing -- the US will be able to navigate a trade war better than anyone else. Why? Because we have our own built in demand. We have the largest, most mature consumer market in the world (yet another point of negotiations we eschewed!). No one else can match it. The EU is huge too, but they are more strangled by their mix of their own government and the EU than we are. Which makes them more dependent on access to foreign markets than us. As much as China (and Brazil and India) have grown their domestic markets, they are still young and will suffer much more than the US. They do not have the same time-developed safety mechanisms in place. They will panic, bubbles will explode, it will be bad.
When that happens, who gets blamed? (Yet more wasted leverage on our part)
Anyway, this is my long answer (much longer than I wanted) to your simple question. Trump wants us to take our leverage back, then take advantage of our natural leverage. And, so, what they fear when the see and hear Trump are thinly veiled threats of the start of of trade wars. Obama doesnt do this, doesnt think this way, would never threaten this type of thing. Obama does not even take advantage of the provisions that exist in current trade deals (i.e., anti-dumping, anti-piracy and anti-IP-theft). He is generally afraid of enforcement action.
Sorry in advance for typos, I have to go and did not have time to proof ...............
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
You. You could easily have multiple suits going on at the same time in multiple jurisdictions.
Trump Quote: "Look at those hands, Trump said, holding up his hands for the audience. Are they small hands? "And he referred to my hands, if they're mall, something else must be small, I guarantee you there's s no problem," Trump said.
Politifact -- In the interest of decorum, I'd just as soon you NOT fact check this one.
Politifact -- In the interest of decorum, I'd just as soon you NOT fact check this one.
No, I never said jurisdiction didn't matter.
Potentially yes. However, it's not as loose as you might think. Establishing jurisdiction in Louisiana is pretty easy because the crash occured there.
Also note that if there was a federal tort claims law th that preempted Louisiana law, you could still have multiple suits in multiple states.
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
I'll take the tangent and run with it....
Jurisdiction in air-disaster cases is one of those things that will never be simple. I was tangentially involved in this case many years ago. An Russian-piloted aircraft bound from Russia to Spain collided mid-air with a British-piloted aircraft bound from Italy to Belgium. The collision occurred in German airspace due to the alleged negligence of both pilots and a Swiss air traffic controller, plus the alleged failure of an American-made collision-avoidance system. Lawsuits were filed everywhere.
Jurisdiction in air-disaster cases is one of those things that will never be simple. I was tangentially involved in this case many years ago. An Russian-piloted aircraft bound from Russia to Spain collided mid-air with a British-piloted aircraft bound from Italy to Belgium. The collision occurred in German airspace due to the alleged negligence of both pilots and a Swiss air traffic controller, plus the alleged failure of an American-made collision-avoidance system. Lawsuits were filed everywhere.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Did anyone else think "those are freakishly small hands" when Donald held them up?
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Trump has now reversed his stance on torture: http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/04/politics/donald-trump-reverses-on-torture/index.html
So yes, it could be MUCH worse than BO.
So yes, it could be MUCH worse than BO.
That sounds like a nasty case. Hope you made some decent coin on that.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
It's funny because it bothers Trump so much. Some magazine mentioned it years ago (15-20yrs). To this day the editor annually gets written notes from Trump (with pictures of his hands) depicting how they are proportionally accurate. As much **** as Trump throws he deserves it getting thrown back at him, playground style.
If you think about it, there's a lot of Aggieness to Donald Trump's rap.
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
Now that you mention it, Trump is the ultimate Aggie. Trump supporters who graduated from UT should have their diplomas confiscated and replaced with a more appropriate one from College Station.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
The same folks who had convulsions over questions of whether Obama was a (1) socialist, (2) Muslim, and/or (3) American are the same ones who are now running with this idea that Trump is Hitler and his people are Nazis.
There must be a satiation point for Nazi claims at some point, right?
z
Nazi comparisons are like calling people racists. They're wrong far more often than not. Personally, I rarely make Nazi comparisons, but asking supporters to publicly pledge loyalty (especially while raising one's hand) at a rally actually does look Nazi-like. No, it doesn't mean anybody at the rallies is an actual Nazi, but the optics of it aren't good.
Nazi comparisons are like calling people racists. They're wrong far more often than not. Personally, I rarely make Nazi comparisons, but asking supporters to publicly pledge loyalty (especially while raising one's hand) at a rally actually does look Nazi-like. No, it doesn't mean anybody at the rallies is an actual Nazi, but the optics of it aren't good.
Because he loves the poorly educated.
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
I see your point, but it only goes so far.
In the 2008 and 2012 election cycles, people weren't saying that the things Obama says and does are reminiscent of socialist or Muslim ideas. They were saying that Obama is a closet socialist and/or Muslim who is concealing his identity so that he could infiltrate our government at the highest level.
In the 2016 election cycle, I haven't heard anyone say that Trump is a closet Nazi. What I have heard people say is that some of the things Trump says and does are reminiscent of Nazi ideas.
the reason people resort to nazi analogies is because it is something everyone understands to be an insult. If you call somebody a latter day Trotskyite nobody would know who you were talking about. Or say someone was a latter day Huey Long or a new Peron. Few people understand the background. Because Nazis have been the devils of choice since they got beaten 71 years ago everybody understands. Although white southern men seem to be catching a lot of grief these days. And old white men seem to be the cause of all our discontents.
Trump does not have the ideological base the Nazis had so the analogies only hold up insofar as saying "I don't like him."
Trump does not have the ideological base the Nazis had so the analogies only hold up insofar as saying "I don't like him."
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Carl Bernstein has been trying to get "neo-fascist" to stick. He has repeated it multiple times, I guess hoping for credit.
Savannah Guthrie, Poltico, Matt Lauer, the Hufff Po, Vicente Fox, Louis CK have all invoked the Nazi imagery. How many more examples do you need?
Last week, it was the KKK.
Kind of funny really - Nazi, Fascist and KKK
What bogeyman do you guys have left? Are you worried you shot your wad too quick? Use all the best ones within a week or two.
One thing we know, it will not be commie -- so no Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Fidel imagery. Why not use the biggest killers in history? Hits too close to home
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Every time you revolutionize a process you create a lot of haters. Trump has changed the Republican Party. Together the big money PACs that have elected officials beholden to them have spent hundreds of millions to derail Trump. Instead they have shown all the lies and 1/4 truths the politicos can create in political commercials are just so much bull crap, valueless despite all the cost.
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Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Looks like we agree on several things. But I I would extend it beyond the RNC, the K-Street people, the Beltway crowd, the BMDs, the donors and the chattering class.
I would extend it to the entire world. Trump is threatening to upset everyone's applecart. When have we seen at any time in history the official Governments of other countries comment on US primaries? It's pretty crazy. Those jokers frame it in terms of Trump's language, xenophobia and so on. But's that is just a front designed to manipulate the media (who make it all too easy). Their real concern is losing their control and power. It's a clear sign Trump has their attention and they are scared.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Headlines tomorrow --
HITLER WANTED TO UNIFY!!!!
Hitler promised bread on every German table.
Trump showed steak and wine to press.
It’s the Fourth Reich, right here in America
HITLER WAS A VEGETARIAN BUT TRUMP ISN'T FOOLING ANYONE WITH THOSE STEAKS!!!!!
Trump raised his hand!!!
NAZI SALUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HITLER GAVE PRESS CONFERENCES AFTER PRIMARY VICTORIES!!!!
Though they're doing it more with Trump (because he's giving them plenty of ammunition), the Left invokes Nazism against conservatives all the time. I remember Newt Gingrich being called a Nazi for wanting to slow the growth in Medicare spending. The goofy irony of that is that the Medicare program is something Nazis would resounding support. Like huisache said, they do it because it's commonly deemed an insult and a political death sentence if the label sticks. It's like calling someone a racist but perhaps worse.
At least in Europe, it's several issues, none of which center around losing power or control. They don't fear that Trump is going to invade Europe and kick the EU and national political leaders out of power.
First, there's a big cultural difference. Over here people don't talk like Trump in serious contexts. They aren't that loud. They don't blatantly boast and smack talk especially about having money. Somebody who behaved like that in public would be considered very rude and boorish. (Frank, it's rude and boorish in the states too. Trump supporters just give him a pass.) A politician who behaved like that would be considered a freak show and would never be taken seriously by a major political party. Imagine David Cameron blabbing about how rich he is or making references to his junk.
Second, Trump talks about shaking down other nations for money, particularly those that host US military installations. Obviously, that gets attention in NATO countries, all of which have at least some US military presence. (By the way, I agree with Trump here, but he's approaching the wrong issue. Our overseas bases don't exist primarily to protect the host nation, and he sounds stupid when he says that. What he should be doing is trying to get them to carry their load in NATO by spending 2 percent of GDP on defense. That's supposed to be the target military spending level for NATO countries, but only a handful actually meet that target.)
Third, he likes Vladimir Putin. Most of Europe doesn't. In fact, they fear him, even if they occasionally play ball with him. Even those who kinda like him are suspicious of him.
Fourth, Trump is all over the map when it comes to foreign policy. Sometimes he sounds like he can't wait to jump into a war. Other times he sounds like Ron Paul. If you're an American ally who's expected to support and sometimes participate in American military actions, how are you supposed to deal with that? If you're a follower (as American allies inherently are), you want a leader who's reasonably predictable. Trump is not. He sounds like he'd flip a coin to decide whether or not to go to war.
Finally, Trump is openly nationalistic, and that's the real root of why he sparks controversy, especially in Europe. Most of Western Europe is not like that. In fact, like American liberals, they think nationalism starts wars and is a product of ignorance. They're wrong, but that's what they think, and when they hear nationalistic rhetoric, it sparks fear in them. With the rise of Islamic terrorism in Europe, nationalists are making inroads in political circles, but they're still a minority and are generally regarded with suspicion. When they think of someone like that having the power of the American presidency, it scares them.
Despite all this, I've heard several European leaders say that regardless of their concerns, if Trump wins, they'll work with him just like they would any other US president. They are pretty pragmatic.
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I spent the evening flipping channels watching the election night coverage and the contrast between Trump and the Democrats was instructive. Trump is the only one playing the game the new way. His "speech" rambling, conversational in every-man language was unpredictable and interesting, in a reality TV sort of way. He engaged in banter with reporters and the audience.
He said memorable stuff. "I'm a very good Christian. "
He dissed one opponent as "Little Marco" and another as "Lying Ted."
Hillary Clinton was doing polished politispeech -- delivering applause line with the appropriate inflection -- the crowd, who had heard them all before, responding with ritualistic whoops and applause at the appropriate times, like a congregation repeating a memorized liturgy. Terrible TV.
He said memorable stuff. "I'm a very good Christian. "
He dissed one opponent as "Little Marco" and another as "Lying Ted."
Hillary Clinton was doing polished politispeech -- delivering applause line with the appropriate inflection -- the crowd, who had heard them all before, responding with ritualistic whoops and applause at the appropriate times, like a congregation repeating a memorized liturgy. Terrible TV.
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Obviously, I think Trump blows and would be a horrific GOP nominee, but this article (which I saw on the Facebook page of a gay, liberal Jewish friend of mine) makes a lot of sense.
Over the last 25 years, the Democrats made a deal with the Devil. They decided to crap on working class voters from their coalition by embracing a globalist economic agenda of "free" trade (in quotes because most of what's described as free trade is not free at all) and unlimited immigration (which the article puts entirely too little emphasis on). There were some major benefits. First, educated, urban and inner suburban social liberals who used to vote Republican for economic reasons became Democrats. Second, with the influx of immigrants, they gained ethnic minorities who are usually reliable Democrats. Third, by embracing a globalist economic agenda, they opened themselves up to getting big campaign money from the business community that dwarfs what labor unions could ever give.
The race card fits very nicely into this equation as well, and of course Trump is doing everything he can to aggravate this. For one thing, dismissing white working class people as knuckle dragging racists makes the snobby wealthy urban voters feel morally superior and motivates them. However, it also serves as a nice diversion from an inherent and irreconcilable policy-driven conflict within the Democratic coalition. You can't be pro-free trade and pro-unlimited immigration and pro-working class or pro-union. It simply can't be done. However, if you can make middle class voters feel guilty as racists if they complain about immigration screwing them, then you can keep them in the fold longer and more effectively than you otherwise could. Trump is basically exploiting this conundrum.
Over the last 25 years, the Democrats made a deal with the Devil. They decided to crap on working class voters from their coalition by embracing a globalist economic agenda of "free" trade (in quotes because most of what's described as free trade is not free at all) and unlimited immigration (which the article puts entirely too little emphasis on). There were some major benefits. First, educated, urban and inner suburban social liberals who used to vote Republican for economic reasons became Democrats. Second, with the influx of immigrants, they gained ethnic minorities who are usually reliable Democrats. Third, by embracing a globalist economic agenda, they opened themselves up to getting big campaign money from the business community that dwarfs what labor unions could ever give.
The race card fits very nicely into this equation as well, and of course Trump is doing everything he can to aggravate this. For one thing, dismissing white working class people as knuckle dragging racists makes the snobby wealthy urban voters feel morally superior and motivates them. However, it also serves as a nice diversion from an inherent and irreconcilable policy-driven conflict within the Democratic coalition. You can't be pro-free trade and pro-unlimited immigration and pro-working class or pro-union. It simply can't be done. However, if you can make middle class voters feel guilty as racists if they complain about immigration screwing them, then you can keep them in the fold longer and more effectively than you otherwise could. Trump is basically exploiting this conundrum.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Heh, I love it.
Now Trump wants to seize part of the Czech Republic, invade Poland before marching into Moscow, steal everyone's art, destroy London and eliminate forever from the face of the earth certain ethic, cultural and religious groups. Yep, you pretty much nailed it, they are mirror images of one another.
Don't be a jackass. You don't have to say that to give the Left ammunition to call you a Nazi anymore than you'd have to call for the enslavement of blacks to give them ammunition to call you a racist.
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