Trump and Sessions

iatrogenic said:
I can see your point, but let's put a finer edge on it. Sessions had public, verifiable, and documented contacts with Russians before the election as a member of the Armed Services Committee. Al Franken and everyone else knew this while questioning Sessions. It seems obvious that Sessions answered Franken's question in terms of campaign contact with the Russians, not any contact with the Russians.

The false, partisan narrative being pushed by the losers is that "collusion" between the Trump campaign and Russian hackers existed. It is fairly obvious that the Russians hacked Podesta's emails. Since the losers haven't defined a crime committed by the Trump campaign and the only crime I can see is the hacking itself, the losers must be saying that the Trump campaign was responsible for the hacking to some degree (funding or technical support). Just benefitting from the release of the hacked emails is no crime despite the losers wanting to make it a crime. However, just being a loser and accusing somebody of a crime without a shred of evidence, and after a year there is zero evidence, is not sufficient grounds to base a recusal on.

The bigger picture is that the expressly stated goal, and activity to date, of the Democrats is to use investigations and the legal system to disrupt the Trump administration at every turn. Sessions did try to do the honorable thing with recusal despite the dishonorable intentions behind the "collusion" narrative of the Democrats and media. Trump is taking the false accusations personally for good reason, and, as you stated, Trump wanted that partisan loyalty from Sessions to fight the dishonorable intentions of the Democrats and MSM.

With more knowledge about DOJ rules, Trump wouldn't have picked Sessions to begin with, so that mistake is on Trump, and he has to correct the problem. Unfortunately, Sessions is going to suffer the consequences.
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The reason that Sessions rightly stepped out is that he was part of the Trump campaign. The Trump campaign is under investigation. It would be like there being an investigation into college recruiting scandals and letting Craig James or Barry Switzer provide oversight.
 
OUBubba said:
The reason that Sessions rightly stepped out is that he was part of the Trump campaign. The Trump campaign is under investigation. It would be like there being an investigation into college recruiting scandals and letting Craig James or Barry Switzer provide oversight.
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I believe I stated that point already.
 
iatrogenic said:
I believe I stated that point already.
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You stated that Sessions hung Trump out to dry. That would only be the case IF there was something that Trump needed to hide from investigators. That's the interesting thing to me. If there's nothing to see here and this is all made up, why is the fact that the AG has recused himself an issue at all? The investigation will turn up nothing and we'll all move on. Unless more emails from Donald Jr. containing the words "Russia", "clinton", etc. show up.

My prediction is that the orange jump suits will come out once the evidence of the funds from Ru$$ia show up in the DJT (and others) campaign coffers via the Alfa bank located in Trump Tower. Foriegn campaign contributions are a no-no. Also, the data circling from the Trump campaign to Cambridge Analytica to Spectrum to the Alfa bank will be noteworthy. Unless someone turns state's evidence, none of this will happen fast. Glass half full: it will be just in time for the mid-terms. Given that Trump has done nothing but criticize the US intelligence community, they'll be more than happy to take whatever steps they need to take to respond. Our allies will be happy to oblige investigators as well. Hell, now even Sessions will be part of the party!
 
Joe Fan said:
It's almost like someone lit a match under Sessions today (or something)

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This was expected and even threatened months ago, wasn't it? Tying this activity to Trump's recent berating is coincidental, at best, unless there has been reporting of Sessions pushing back on the White House since he initially announced the plans.
 
That is not the only statement I made. Read the whole post Bubba, because you missed the entire meaning. While reading, consider the point that Sessions could have put an end to the majority of this ever expanding collusion B.S., although Congress could still move forward.

Concerning the funds from Russia comment, youre like a Musberger in training when it comes to barfing up conspiracy theories. You both totally lack credibility and facts, but he has more panache than you, and that counts for something.
 
I read your writings. You're as poor at reasoning as Kellyanne C. It's dishonest to claim that their collusion yet your side said that there was no contact...until there was an email referencing the Crown Prosecutor of Russia with the subject title "FW: Russia - Clinton" and then you have to say "there may have been contact but there was no collusion!" That's like a 18 year old boy trying to say "just the tip". I'd ask you to approach this Ru$$ia trump thing like a good patriot and say, "gee, we need to get to the bottom of this...let's see where Mr. Mueller can find out over the course of the next year or so, or at least as long as we investigated Benghazi". Otherwise, you're no patriot to the American democracy.
 
You clearly cannot comprehend english Bubba. Obviously, there was contact with many foreign countries, including Russia, by the Trump campaign and those in the transition process. It's documented, witnessed, and verified. The question has to do with what was discussed during the meetings, and the Intent of the losers to blame their poor results on someone other than themselves. The Russians stole emails and released them. The emails contained information damaging to the Democrats because the Democrats memorialized their stupidity in email form. That is not a sign of collusion by the Trump campaign, but it is direct evidence of stupidity and collusion by the DNC and the MSM.

Comparing the length of time that should be spent on the current fools' errand known as "Russian Collusion" with the time spent on Benghazi is weak. One has nothing to do with the other. Why should that be a relative comparison? Were the facts the same? Did Trump ignore 200 requests for more security at an embassy and calls for reinforcements during the middle of a battle which resulted in the deaths of a US Ambassador, a foreign service officer, and two CIA contractors? Subsequently, did Trump lie to the families of the dead, and concoct a story to blame his incompetence on a film that had no connection to an attack on U S territory? If he did all of that, and in order to be a Patriotic American, I agree that Trump should be investigated for the same length of time as Benghazi. However, if this is just the losers lashing out because of their previous incompetence, embarrassment, and shame for their role in the deaths of American Patriots, the loss of hundreds of state and federal elections, and a failed socialist agenda- and doing so without any evidence!- I just can't agree that being Patriotic means being idiotic. Obviously, you feel differently.
 
iatrogenic said:
You clearly cannot comprehend english Bubba. Obviously, there was contact with many foreign countries, including Russia, by the Trump campaign and those in the transition process. It's documented, witnessed, and verified. The question has to do with what was discussed during the meetings, and the Intent of the losers to blame their poor results on someone other than themselves. The Russians stole emails and released them. The emails contained information damaging to the Democrats because the Democrats memorialized their stupidity in email form. That is not a sign of collusion by the Trump campaign, but it is direct evidence of stupidity and collusion by the DNC and the MSM.

Comparing the length of time that should be spent on the current fools' errand known as "Russian Collusion" with the time spent on Benghazi is weak. One has nothing to do with the other. Why should that be a relative comparison? Were the facts the same? Did Trump ignore 200 requests for more security at an embassy and calls for reinforcements during the middle of a battle which resulted in the deaths of a US Ambassador, a foreign service officer, and two CIA contractors? Subsequently, did Trump lie to the families of the dead, and concoct a story to blame his incompetence on a film that had no connection to an attack on U S territory? If he did all of that, and in order to be a Patriotic American, I agree that Trump should be investigated for the same length of time as Benghazi. However, if this is just the losers lashing out because of their previous incompetence, embarrassment, and shame for their role in the deaths of American Patriots, the loss of hundreds of state and federal elections, and a failed socialist agenda- and doing so without any evidence!- I just can't agree that being Patriotic means being idiotic. Obviously, you feel differently.
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The "collusion" relates to the meetings that are referenced in the FW: Russia - Clinton meeting that we know about and the ones that we don't know about. Had they told the truth about it I could not use air quote OR the word "collusion".
 
Well Bubba, go ahead and explain the collusion crime you want to spend so much time on, and provide just one example of hard evidence backing your claim. Did you not hear the press conference by Kushner the other day?
 
iatrogenic said:
Well Bubba, go ahead and explain the collusion crime you want to spend so much time on, and provide just one example of hard evidence backing your claim. Did you not hear the press conference by Kushner the other day?
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A. We should trust the guy who added 111 names to his SF-86? Gotcha.

B. I will sit back and let mueller do his job. We will see if trump will.
 
OUBubba said:
A. We should trust the guy who added 111 names to his SF-86? Gotcha.

B. I will sit back and let mueller do his job. We will see if trump will.
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Like Putin, Kushner said "I didn't collude" so we should simply accept it.

I don't believe that Don Jr. colluded but was rather an idiot when he accepted that meeting. Kushner is another story altogether. With the report of him asking Kislayak to setup "backchannel communications" for the Trump campaign to speak with Russia outside of the ears of our intelligence community and he owned the data operation that literally had a vendor expose all of it's voter analytics to the world...if you knew where to look. How would this data be useful? It would if you targeted a misinformation campaign in critical districts. There is plenty of smoke around Kushner to continue to investigate.

On the SF-86 forms. Either Kushner was hiding something or he was incompetent. Either reason should be enough to remove his security clearance.
 
He intentionally left of those names?

You can't produce one hard fact. Just one. Nether can anyone else. That's after a year of investigations, media frenzy, wiretaps,and leaks. Nothing, nada, zilch, zip. Fake news from hollow people with nothing positive to offer in any area. Great job. You should be proud.
 
iatrogenic said:
He intentionally left of those names?

You can't produce one hard fact. Just one. Nether can anyone else. That's after a year of investigations, media frenzy, wiretaps,and leaks. Nothing, nada, zilch, zip. Fake news from hollow people with nothing positive to offer in any area. Great job. You should be proud.
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I'd give him the first mistake. I'll accept that his assistant mistakenly sent the draft version, especially since he followed up with the amended version within days. Clearly there wasn't an attempt to hide all that information. Of course, the Don Jr. meeting was not included in that list. Months later while Kushner was being investigated he added this meeting. Months after Session's hearings he addended this meeting. If he didn't conclude then Trump should can him for incompetence. With the email title, the content saying it's coming from "Russian Government Support" the it was nothing excuse rings pretty hollow.
 
Nothing wrong with Russian support if they're just giving information. If they hacked the RNC and released Trump's pictures to Bubba, the Rs would be crying just like the Dems.

It looks like the Don Jr meeting was a complete waste of time, however. Kushner thought it was so bad he pulled the "blind date-fake call" move to get the hell out.
 
iatrogenic said:
Nothing wrong with Russian support if they're just giving information. If they hacked the RNC and released Trump's pictures to Bubba, the Rs would be crying just like the Dems.

It looks like the Don Jr meeting was a complete waste of time, however. Kushner thought it was so bad he pulled the "blind date-fake call" move to get the hell out.
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It looks like it was a complete waste of time because they said it was. What did Trump say that night just a few hours after the meeting? "There's going to be a big story coming out, maybe as early as next week." Also, the campaign manager at the time, Lewendowski (OF COURSE) lied about whether Trump Sr. was there or not. At first they said he was in Tampa. Turns out he attended a lunch meeting in NY and then spent the rest of the day in Trump Tower. You can't trust one thing that comes out of any of them. Some people are saying that he listened into the meeting on a cell phone and the intelligence community has that call. The NY AG is the one that is running silent and deep here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...emocratic-us-president-election-a7836826.html
 
So they got stiffed by the DNC's Russian. That's not illegal. Conversely, if she gave Don Jr.pictures of Hillary and Web Hubble making Chelsea, that is not illegal either. If she told baby Don she was going to give them stolen emails from the DNC, that's not illegal.

Usually an investigation follows a crime (murder, theft, Watergate break in, etc), but the investigators go after the likely perp based on facts.In the current case, we have a crime committed by Russians and an investigation of Trump because Trump won (and the stupid emails sent by the DNC and the media helped him win!). but no facts pointing at Trump being involved in the hacking. Trump was the beneficiary, but not a single fact shows Trump had anything to do with the hacking. It reminds me of the story about the NCAA being so mad at Texas that they put TCU on probation. If Trump knew about the hacked emails as a co-conspirator, do you think he would make an announcement about an upcoming bombshell that never materialized?
 
iatrogenic said:
So they got stiffed by the DNC's Russian. That's not illegal. Conversely, if she gave Don Jr.pictures of Hillary and Web Hubble making Chelsea, that is not illegal either. If she told baby Don she was going to give them stolen emails from the DNC, that's not illegal.

Usually an investigation follows a crime (murder, theft, Watergate break in, etc), but the investigators go after the likely perp based on facts.In the current case, we have a crime committed by Russians and an investigation of Trump because Trump won (and the stupid emails sent by the DNC and the media helped him win!). but no facts pointing at Trump being involved in the hacking. Trump was the beneficiary, but not a single fact shows Trump had anything to do with the hacking. It reminds me of the story about the NCAA being so mad at Texas that they put TCU on probation. If Trump knew about the hacked emails as a co-conspirator, do you think he would make an announcement about an upcoming bombshell that never materialized?
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I think the crime here is going to be foreign (read: Russian) dollars into a US campaign. That's been proven to be against the law. And, hiding this is called obstruction of justice.
https://transition.fec.gov/pages/brochures/foreign.shtml

The Prohibition
The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly. It is also unlawful to help foreign nationals violate that ban or to solicit, receive or accept contributions or donations from them. Persons who knowingly and willfully engage in these activities may be subject to fines and/or imprisonment.
 
iatrogenic said:
If Trump knew about the hacked emails as a co-conspirator, do you think he would make an announcement about an upcoming bombshell that never materialized?
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Don't try logic with this guy. He shouldn't poop on his AG like he's doing. He shouldn't say a lot of things but he does. I think the history of that thing is that the Orlando nightclub story happened a few days after that and dominated the news cycle. The fact that they got nothing is really not the point They were all over it. Manafort, Kushner and Jr. were at least there on a day's notice. Others may have been there. The Secret Service knew about it and only Sr. was under their protection at the time....
 
iatrogenic said:
I can see your point, but let's put a finer edge on it. Sessions had public, verifiable, and documented contacts with Russians before the election as a member of the Armed Services Committee. Al Franken and everyone else knew this while questioning Sessions. It seems obvious that Sessions answered Franken's question in terms of campaign contact with the Russians, not any contact with the Russians.

The false, partisan narrative being pushed by the losers is that "collusion" between the Trump campaign and Russian hackers existed. It is fairly obvious that the Russians hacked Podesta's emails. Since the losers haven't defined a crime committed by the Trump campaign and the only crime I can see is the hacking itself, the losers must be saying that the Trump campaign was responsible for the hacking to some degree (funding or technical support). Just benefitting from the release of the hacked emails is no crime despite the losers wanting to make it a crime. However, just being a loser and accusing somebody of a crime without a shred of evidence, and after a year there is zero evidence, is not sufficient grounds to base a recusal on.

The bigger picture is that the expressly stated goal, and activity to date, of the Democrats is to use investigations and the legal system to disrupt the Trump administration at every turn. Sessions did try to do the honorable thing with recusal despite the dishonorable intentions behind the "collusion" narrative of the Democrats and media. Trump is taking the false accusations personally for good reason, and, as you stated, Trump wanted that partisan loyalty from Sessions to fight the dishonorable intentions of the Democrats and MSM.

With more knowledge about DOJ rules, Trump wouldn't have picked Sessions to begin with, so that mistake is on Trump, and he has to correct the problem. Unfortunately, Sessions is going to suffer the consequences.
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The contact with the Russians as a Senator isn't what made the recusal appropriate. That whole incident is what focused attention on Sessions, but the conflict of interest and the fact that Sessions would be a fact witness in investigation is what made recusal appropriate.

You are correct that nobody has found any evidence of coordination between the Trump campaign and the hackers, and so far, nobody has found evidence that Trump and his people have received illegal contributions from the Russian government. And those are the only ways you reach criminality and/or likely impeachment. As you mentioned, simply benefiting from the hacked e-mails isn't anywhere near enough. (And as a side note, I think it's questionable that he even benefited much from them, since the contents of them virtually never got discussed in the mainstream political media.)

Having said that, the hacking alone is enough reason to look into the matter, including who in the United States may have known about it or helped coordinate or facilitate it. IF you're a serious investigator, you're going to look at the campaign that at least arguably benefited from it - not because of the presence of evidence but because of the presence of a motive. The evidence comes after the investigation. (That's why someone who inherits a mess of cash because of a murder is going to get scrutiny by the cops.)

As a senior campaign official, there's no question that Sessions was going to be a fact witness, was going to have a conflict, and therefore was going to have to recuse. If Trump didn't want that to happen, then he should have appointed someone who had no connection with the campaign.

And I won't argue with your point that the Democrats want to use the Russia story to derail the Trump presidency. There's no question about it, but that doesn't have any bearing on the appropriateness of Sessions' recusal. And if I was Trump and was totally clean, I'd push for Mueller to work quickly, get finished, and put the matter to bed.
 
fake news from hollow people........hmmm

aside from the question of whether there was criminal action by someone in the Trump circle, there is the real news and verifiable fact that Trump has, on any number of occasions, expressed his admiration for Putin. There have been more verified murders of Putin opponents than rumors about Clinton associates' suicides.

He is a very bad fellow and perhaps just what Russia needs right now but there is no getting around the fact that he is a true bad hombre. Is there? And that Trump has spoken more highly about him than any other world figure? Except himself, of course.
 
huisache said:
fake news from hollow people........hmmm

aside from the question of whether there was criminal action by someone in the Trump circle, there is the real news and verifiable fact that Trump has, on any number of occasions, expressed his admiration for Putin. There have been more verified murders of Putin opponents than rumors about Clinton associates' suicides.

He is a very bad fellow and perhaps just what Russia needs right now but there is no getting around the fact that he is a true bad hombre. Is there? And that Trump has spoken more highly about him than any other world figure? Except himself, of course.
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Trumps more "presidential" than every president since Lincoln. According to him.
 
iatrogenic said:
Nothing wrong with Russian support if they're just giving information. If they hacked the RNC and released Trump's pictures to Bubba, the Rs would be crying just like the Dems.

It looks like the Don Jr meeting was a complete waste of time, however. Kushner thought it was so bad he pulled the "blind date-fake call" move to get the hell out.
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That is BS. "Nothing wrong with Russian support" ......What???

The "I'm rubber your glue" defense doesn't work. If they did solicit and/or accept Russian assistance in the election....That is wrong. It doesn't excuse anything the dems do, but you trying to defend that crud by saying....but the dems do it....is just wrong.

We all railed against the Clintons for the Chinese connections they have/had. This is every bit as bad...if true. And the only way to know if it is true is to let the investigators do their job.
 
First, I didn't use the "Dems do it too" defense, so I guess I'm not wrong.

Second, Russians or Chinese or Namibians openly helping and supporting (legally or illegally) one party in the U.S. doesn't magically translate into a crime being committed by the party receiving support, which is what the Dems are saying. Clearly, the Russians want to destroy NATO, and they were motivated to jump on the Trump train because Trump was criticizing NATO. It's just not hard to figure this out folks.

Third, the investigators are doing their job. In addition to Trump, should they also investigate everyone that supported Trump because they thought they would benefit from Trump being President? After all, those voters had motive and some would benefit from a Trump presidency by millions of dollars. Maybe one if the people that voted for Trump hacked Podesta, or colluded with the Russians to hack Podesta. If motive is the argument in support of an investigation because candidate x won a Presidential election, this investigation could take a couple hundred years. We have 50 million + possible criminals to investigate. Billions of dollars were at stake in the election because Trump campaigned on lowering taxes while the Dems campaigned on... uh... hell, I guess they only campaigned on saying Trump sucked, but they damn sure don't want to lower taxes.

Putin is a murderer. I've never heard Trump say he was a good guy. I have heard Trump say he was a better leader than Obama, which is arguably true.
 
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iatrogenic said:
. Obviously, there was contact with many foreign countries, including Russia, by the Trump campaign and those in the transition process. It's documented, witnessed, and verified. The question has to do with what was discussed during the meetings, and the Intent of the losers to blame their poor results on someone other than themselves. The Russians stole emails and released them. The emails contained information damaging to the Democrats because the Democrats memorialized their stupidity in email form. That is not a sign of collusion by the Trump campaign, but it is direct evidence of stupidity and collusion by the DNC and the MSM.

Comparing the length of time that should be spent on the current fools' errand known as "Russian Collusion" with the time spent on Benghazi is weak. One has nothing to do with the other. Why should that be a relative comparison? Were the facts the same? Did Trump ignore 200 requests for more security at an embassy and calls for reinforcements during the middle of a battle which resulted in the deaths of a US Ambassador, a foreign service officer, and two CIA contractors? Subsequently, did Trump lie to the families of the dead, and concoct a story to blame his incompetence on a film that had no connection to an attack on U S territory? If he did all of that, and in order to be a Patriotic American, I agree that Trump should be investigated for the same length of time as Benghazi. However, if this is just the losers lashing out because of their previous incompetence, embarrassment, and shame for their role in the deaths of American Patriots, the loss of hundreds of state and federal elections, and a failed socialist agenda- and doing so without any evidence!- I just can't agree that being Patriotic means being idiotic. Obviously, you feel differently.
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