Then and Now

[Monahorns]

Drugs and prostitution have been around forever but they were typically hidden from polite society. Now we parade them on TV and music in the daylight hours in front of our kids as well. We have taken what used to be a small portion of our lives that most of us struggled against the temptation, and we have made them mainstream businesses that are very public and even prominent in some cultures. I blame Kevin Bacon and that dang dancing.

Not totally true. Drugs and prostitution were a big part of pagan culture throughout the world. So was infanticide, slavery, homosexuality, etc. Those cultures were that way because the kings and priests taught them that was right and true. Christianity more or less wiped those things out wherever it became prominent. Most of Europe was proselytized by the leaders. Constantine, Otto, Charlemagne, etc. The governmental and then church leaders taught the people the truth.

Once the intellectual leaders changed sides essentially, the process to undo it has been in operation just over 200 years.

 

[OUBubba]

American games and pop culture are ubiquitous across the globe. So, if they were causing harm on youths across the globe wouldn't the gun problem be "global"?

The US has more "religion" in day to day life than most other countries around the globe. So, if it were "less religion" that is causing this wouldn't less religious countries have more problems?

What's the major difference between us and the developed world on this issue?

 

[guy4321]

Many nations have government enforced ratings on entertainment. Would be interesting to see how many youth in those countries get their hands on the entertainment anyway.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

American games and pop culture are ubiquitous across the globe. So, if they were causing harm on youths across the globe wouldn't the gun problem be "global"?

The US has more "religion" in day to day life than most other countries around the globe. So, if it were "less religion" that is causing this wouldn't less religious countries have more problems?

What's the major difference between us and the developed world on this issue?

I don't dispute that having far fewer guns (as other nations do) would lead to fewer gun deaths. but as a gun violence solution, this also has negative consequences for the non-criminal among us. We've yet to find a strong way to target gun restriction at the actual bad guys to the extent necessary for bad guys to give up their guns. So in the sweep to have fewer guns as a society you unnecessarily and detrimentally impact non-criminals. If new laws started with HEAVY penalties for criminals possessing guns then we could have a dialogue but as long as the Dem's and DA's of America are letting criminals off easy for possession, then gun control is a non-starter. No one on the GOP side is going to sign on to a bill that focuses enforcement and/or restriction equally on criminals and non-criminals alike. Or worse yet, focuses gun control on non-criminals in hopes that the reduction in supply will somehow trickle down to a reduction in gun supply for bad guys.

 

[huisache]

I don't dispute that having far fewer guns (as other nations do) would lead to fewer gun deaths. but as a gun violence solution, this also has negative consequences for the non-criminal among us. We've yet to find a strong way to target gun restriction at the actual bad guys to the extent necessary for bad guys to give up their guns. So in the sweep to have fewer guns as a society you unnecessarily and detrimentally impact non-criminals. If new laws started with HEAVY penalties for criminals possessing guns then we could have a dialogue but as long as the Dem's and DA's of America are letting criminals off easy for possession, then gun control is a non-starter. No one on the GOP side is going to sign on to a bill that focuses enforcement and/or restriction equally on criminals and non-criminals alike. Or worse yet, focuses gun control on non-criminals in hopes that the reduction in supply will somehow trickle down to a reduction in gun supply for bad guys.

good post; I am doing a lot of criminal defense work in my semi retirement and the lackadaisical attitude in this respect is noticeable. I recall one federal judge chewing out an assistant USA because they were revoking a felon for possessing a firearm instead of prosecuting him for the new offense. The assistant said policy was made in Houston. I have noticed that in drug cases where the perp is caught with a firearm they automatically tag them with the gun on top of the drug offense-------it is a minimum of five years extra and automatically gets stacked.

Now if some of our progressive DAs would start smashing people for gun offenses we might see some progress. For example, if you get convicted of misdemeanor family violence you are forbidden from ever possessing a firearm. Next time the guy slaps around his GF she can call the cops, tell them about the gun he owns and off he goes. Word gets around about such things.

Of course the problem with this flight of fancy is that none of the perps of these high profile murders fits into these categories.

Question: what was the source of funds for the kid in Uvalde? Those weapons and that ammo and jacket were not cheap. My guess is he was moonlighting from his job at Wendy's by smuggling aliens, but if so, why would he keep working at Wendy's ?

 

[Horn6721]

Huis
I think you give the killer too much credit to organize and follow through on smuggling.
He seems pretty single minded and didn't spend money. His grandmother even paid his phone bill until 2 weeks ago
As mb pointed out he could have easily saved enough to buy it all

 

[OUBubba]

good post; I am doing a lot of criminal defense work in my semi retirement and the lackadaisical attitude in this respect is noticeable. I recall one federal judge chewing out an assistant USA because they were revoking a felon for possessing a firearm instead of prosecuting him for the new offense. The assistant said policy was made in Houston. I have noticed that in drug cases where the perp is caught with a firearm they automatically tag them with the gun on top of the drug offense-------it is a minimum of five years extra and automatically gets stacked.

Now if some of our progressive DAs would start smashing people for gun offenses we might see some progress. For example, if you get convicted of misdemeanor family violence you are forbidden from ever possessing a firearm. Next time the guy slaps around his GF she can call the cops, tell them about the gun he owns and off he goes. Word gets around about such things.

Of course the problem with this flight of fancy is that none of the perps of these high profile murders fits into these categories.

Question: what was the source of funds for the kid in Uvalde? Those weapons and that ammo and jacket were not cheap. My guess is he was moonlighting from his job at Wendy's by smuggling aliens, but if so, why would he keep working at Wendy's ?

Agree. On this section of the internet I've proposed domestic violence offenders being red-flagged and have been shot down. We'd save a lot of lives if this was enacted.

I think we get hung up on the "it wouldn't have stopped this one". If we can stop 10% of gun deaths we stop 4,500/year. More than died on 9/11.

 

[SabreHorn]

Bubba,

Just curious, do you have any idea how many of those deaths were caused by guns purchased legally and how many were by stolen guns?

On the domestic violence issue, we have a judge in Harris County (swept in on the straight ticket voting of illegals and dead people) who released a convicted felon (several felonies) on minimal bond. Guy drove straight to girlfriend's residence (hurray for protective orders) and killed her. Judge made it seem that beating the crap out of her multiple times was no big deal, but murder was a little less tolerant.

 

[OUBubba]

Bubba,

Just curious, do you have any idea how many of those deaths were caused by guns purchased legally and how many were by stolen guns?

On the domestic violence issue, we have a judge in Harris County (swept in on the straight ticket voting of illegals and dead people) who released a convicted felon (several felonies) on minimal bond. Guy drove straight to girlfriend's residence (hurray for protective orders) and killed her. Judge made it seem that beating the crap out of her multiple times was no big deal, but murder was a little less tolerant.

I'm just using national statistics. I don't know. There are old studies. One from 8 years ago says 10-15%. If you told me it was 25%-40% I wouldn't argue.

 

[OUBubba]

I think the criminal market runs off of illegal sales and private sales. I am of the opinion that private sellers need to be regulated much more stringently. You're not selling a coffee pot, it's a weapon.

 

[SabreHorn]

Bubba,

At least in Texas, private sales are closely monitored and require proper paperwork signed by both parties and filed with the county/state. Now, regarding the issue of stolen guns and/or guns with the numbers filed off, I can only speculate but believe that 99+% do no paperwork.

Back to the old thought (proven overwhelmingly true by Mexico), "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".

 

[iatrogenic]

Agree. On this section of the internet I've proposed domestic violence offenders being red-flagged and have been shot down. We'd save a lot of lives if this was enacted.

I think we get hung up on the "it wouldn't have stopped this one". If we can stop 10% of gun deaths we stop 4,500/year. More than died on 9/11.

The vast majority of gun deaths are from suicide. My understanding is that other countries do not count them in their statistics. Some of gun deaths are accidental and some are self defense. Of the actual 10,000 or so criminal on criminal, or criminal on innocent gun deaths, 90% are from handguns, and committed by gangs. It would be great to eliminate all of them, and especially the last 1,000, but not at the expense of everyone else’s rights and freedoms.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

Agree. On this section of the internet I've proposed domestic violence offenders being red-flagged and have been shot down. We'd save a lot of lives if this was enacted.

I think we get hung up on the "it wouldn't have stopped this one". If we can stop 10% of gun deaths we stop 4,500/year. More than died on 9/11.

I don't know that we get hung up on that but I do get hung up on this.
1. 50%'ish of gun deaths are suicide. While i would stipulate that if many of these people had not had a gun readily available, they may not be dead and as a result we could possibly have fewer deaths, perhaps even in the thousands. However, I'm not willing to give up my 2nd Amendment rights to protect someone from themselves. I don't give up alcohol to prevent other Drunk Drivers. I don't give up driving to prevent other car crashes.
2. The number of mass shootings in 2020 was about 693. Most of these aren't Uvalde type events but rather, two rival Urban males who show up at the same place, get in an argument and start shooting. That sounds like gang to me. That sounds like likely criminal background. We could implement laws that punish this sort of thing HEAVILY, but Dem's and DAs are the ones backing off on these because "it disproportionally effects black and brown"
3. The second largest segment is homicide (not of the mass shooting variety). Again, mostly the criminal element doing this.
4. The smallest number (by orders of magnitude) happens to also be the most tragic and thus garners most of the attention because it is useful rhetoric for gun control advocates. All of us want shootings at schools and grocery stores to stop but what the I get hung up on is that this represents less than 1% of the problem and Dem's want to address it by trickle-down gun theory.

And then there are the very practical issues of what happens after gun control is implemented. there are already 350MM+ guns. As soon as you announce gun control, most of those are going to be reported as sold/lost/stolen. And the fact that we live next to an almost failed narco state that we don't have the ability/willingness to stop drug/cartel/human trafficking so you can bet that you can just add guns to that (even more than already exists).

There are some interesting stats on "time-to-crime" which detail how soon a gun is used in a crime. and also some stats about how recently a suicide purchased their gun. These two stats might indicate some benefit to having a longer waiting time for a First Gun, but until Dem's get serious about criminals possessing guns FOR ANY REASON, AT ANY TIME then most GOP are not going to budge on the rest of it.

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

Agree. On this section of the internet I've proposed domestic violence offenders being red-flagged and have been shot down. We'd save a lot of lives if this was enacted.

There would need to be some sort of "domestic violence threshold". Otherwise it'll be like being classified as a sex offender. You have real rapists who are lumped in with someone who was seen peeing in a public parking lot. They're both registered sex offenders for the rest of their lives. One makes sense yet the other doesn't.

 

[huisache]

Can I get a source on the percent of gun deaths being suicides? Contrary to my experience and my best friend works as a medical examiner and was a homicide detective before. His thought: no way

 

[Horn6721]

I thimk he meant 52.3 %of suicides are by gun

 

[Chop]

good post; I am doing a lot of criminal defense work in my semi retirement and the lackadaisical attitude in this respect is noticeable. I recall one federal judge chewing out an assistant USA because they were revoking a felon for possessing a firearm instead of prosecuting him for the new offense. The assistant said policy was made in Houston. I have noticed that in drug cases where the perp is caught with a firearm they automatically tag them with the gun on top of the drug offense-------it is a minimum of five years extra and automatically gets stacked.

Now if some of our progressive DAs would start smashing people for gun offenses we might see some progress. For example, if you get convicted of misdemeanor family violence you are forbidden from ever possessing a firearm. Next time the guy slaps around his GF she can call the cops, tell them about the gun he owns and off he goes. Word gets around about such things.

Of course the problem with this flight of fancy is that none of the perps of these high profile murders fits into these categories.

Question: what was the source of funds for the kid in Uvalde? Those weapons and that ammo and jacket were not cheap. My guess is he was moonlighting from his job at Wendy's by smuggling aliens, but if so, why would he keep working at Wendy's ?

Maybe he stole the $ from his Grandmother. He stole her pickup truck.

 

[OUBubba]

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

 

[EDT]