The real problem with our tax system

W

Wulaw Horn

1,000+ Posts
Is that poor people (and middle class) do not pay enough taxes.

Now, I'm not making an argument here to lower my taxes (though that would be cool), I'm making an argument to raise my brothers taxes instead. I think it's ridiculous that a family of four can make like 60 or 70 thousand dollars and not pay a dime in Federal taxes.

I think that this country would be a hell of a lot better off if more people (like everyone with a job) had to pay income tax.

Maybe then we'd have people stop and think before voting in a socialist agenda. They think- oh- free healthcare, lets go with that. Well, it ain't free, even if it's free to them. If they all had to pay then they'd have some ownership in the system. We really need to raise taxes on the poor and middle class.
 
I don't know where these fallacies about socialized healthcare come from. It will not be free, nor will it be paid for by FIT. It will be paid for by FICA or something similar. Everyone with an income, whether wealthy, middle class, or poor pays FICA.

I also don't care to hear wealthy people *****. You want to pay less taxes, get a job at McDonald's and see how you like the lifestyle. I bet you could even keep your cell phone and cable. Perhaps you could even move into a gang's territory and worry for your family's safety. Man, poor people have it great.

I say this as someone who is an upper middle class single white male. I pay a ton of taxes, and as my income (hopefully) continues to rise, I will pay even more. You will never hear me complain that I'm getting the short end of the stick when compared to poor people.
 
It's pretty discouraging to look at your tax bill from the prior year and realize all of the money the gov't stole from you. Well, at least I got "maintained roads" out of the deal.
rolleyes.gif


Liberals suck. Tax and spend. WTF? Maybe if any of the politicians actually worked a day in their life, they wouldn't be so quick to tax us all into the ground. But then again, if they didn't give away all of OUR money to the minorities, they wouldn't get near as many votes.
 
well, the biggest jumps in our national debt have been under republicans, so it's kind of tough to fault the left.

taxing and spending frivolously sucks, no doubt. but not taxing and still spending frivolously is much worse.
 
You're missing the point, FR........people who make $250K and have families aren't "wealthy", except in the eyes of the policy makers.

Wait until you sit down one day, and find out that the exemptions for children, mortgage interest, charitable donations, etc., are phased down or even out, because you "make too much".

And oh yeah, just in case you might actually be paying too little tax, we're gonna slap an "alternative minimum tax" on you, even though we've already taxed every dime you earned. Just because.

Then.....you wake up one day, and hear that Congress, after ******* you in the ***, is about to give a "tax rebate" to stimulate the economy. But wait! You don't get a rebate! Even though you've paid nearly $100K in taxes over the past two years (that's right, a hundred ******* thousand dollars).

If none of that chaps your *** in the slightest, then I guess you're a "better person" than I.
 
Our tax system is like a pack of wolves and a goat voting on what is for dinner. The rich got the tax cut, blah blah blah. A family of four, with kids, making $ 70,000 pays a around $4000. An entrepeneur, employing people with jobs, making $200,000 wil pay around $45,000 in taxes.
 
That idea cracks me up that "rich" people don't work.

I leave home every day around 7:30 and get back home every day at 7:00, except on those frequent days when I'm doing closings at some dude's house at 7:00 and then I get home at like 8:30.

My brother (who's probably smarter than all of us) made like 30k last year and worked probably about 300 hours total for the year. Hard working middle class my ***.

He's an extreme example but I know TONS of people that work a steady 8:30 to 5:00 job, with an hour for lunch and 15 days off a year that they max out, that don't bring work home with them for 1 second. That ain't working hard. That's just life. And if that's the only amount that you are willing to work you are not going to make a ton. Which is fine, different strokes for different folks. But don't tell me that I don't work hard (other than posting on Horn Fans when it's dead- but I'm still here putting in the time in case someone needs me for something).

I understand what the above poster is saying about getting blood from a turnip, but I disagree wholeheartedly. The federal governement gets first crack at my money, they can get first crack at the middle class and poor people's money as well. They will have to adjust their lifestyle to take into account the bite that the federal government takes out of their pay check, they same why I have to take that into account. By doing so they will be less likely to vote themselves the bread and circuses that we get from our current politicians.

Or, at least, if they choose to vote for the giveaways it is coming out of their pocket too, and they are invested in the process. That's all I really want or ask for.
 
MirrOLure,

I'm not missing anything. A family of 4 with 250k a year is in a much better position than a family of four with 60k. If you make 250k, you should pay more taxes than someone with 60k. And yes, a family that makes 250k a year is wealthy by any definition. Take a look at the at the average US income. Its not even close.

If a family that makes 250k lives beyond their means in a 2 or 3 million dollar home, that doesn't make them any less wealthy. It makes them poor money managers.

But either way. Like I said, McDonald's is still hiring. You are welcome to get a job there and get all the tax rebates that come with it. Do you not understand how much better off you are, even though you are paying more taxes?

And yeah, ousuxindallas, all you got was maintained roads. Right. You've also got a military and you've got police forces that keep these "minorities" who take your tax money out of your home. I could ***** that your state is taking all my taxes because NJ is only getting about 50 cents on the dollar in Fed tax money. But you guys need it because your education system is in the shitter, so you won't see me complain. And the Deep South needs it too. Otherwise Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama would be looking up at Mexico in quality of life.
 
The real problem is too many people get out of paying them through business lobby inspired loopholes. Maybe all wage earners should pay some small amount, even the poorest, but I don't think it adds up to much compared to what the wealthy get out of paying due to creative tax breaks for their sheltered lucrative ventures.
It should be fairer across the board. By fairer, more should pay a share.
 
Fondren-

you are completely misunderstanding my POV on this thread. I never asked for lower taxes. I asked for more freaking people to pay taxes, so that if we are going to vote for bread and circuses everyone gets to pay for some of it.

Bitching about my taxes is for another thread- this one (my intention anyway) is for a discussion on wether or not more people should be paying taxes. I contend yes- they should be. That way they are invested in the process and not simply voting to pick some other dude's pocket to provide services for themselves. They are then bearing the burden of paying for some of those services they voted for.

And I would love for only net tax payers to be able to vote- it would be glorious and we'd have a hell of a lot better government. But I'm an elitist ahole so whatever.

I'm living the example provided above obout the entrepreneur creating jobs and getting kicked in the teeth with taxes- but again- that's not my point on this thread- my point is that EVERYONE should be paying Fed taxes. It'd make our governemnt more accountable and better imo.
 
In addition to the facts I've ranted about above, I think it is the semantics that bug me almost just as much.

By technical definition, nobody who "earns" $250,000 (or any other amount) is "wealthy".

"Wealthy" implies abundance.....literally, money laying around all over the place. Think Uncle Scrooge from the Donald Duck comics.

Anyone who makes $250,000.00 per year has worked just as "hard" as those who make $60,000.00. Lumping in $250,000 earners with the Bill Gates of the world is ludicrous.
 
Fondren...........now I get it.

You're use of "better off", not to mention the idea that someone who earns $250K could possibly live in a "$3 million house, tells me all I need to know.

Have a nice day.
 
you guys are acting as if the higher tax brackets are based on an overriding feeling that the wealthy don't work hard. where did that come from? i've never once heard that used as an explanation for why people with more money should pay more taxes.

i don't mind paying more than the guy making $60k, but i want to see something for it. right now i don't feel like i'm getting my money's worth. the solution, IMO, isn't to just take the funding out, but rather to fix the spending.

i have a question for those of you upset at the amount of taxes you pay...if nothing were to change regarding how you're taxed, but the money was spent wisely and we really got a good bang for our buck, would you be as upset? is it about the money, or is it about what you're getting for it?
 
MirrO,

So because there is always someone wealthier, a person can never be wealthy. That's poor logic. You have to examine your wealth against the whole, not Bill Gates or Warren Buffett. If you are a top 5% wage earner, you are wealthy, wealthier than 95% of the population. With that amount and a family of 4, you should be able to set yourself up nicely for life in less than 10 years. If you are not able to, then you are a poor money manager.

I don't really care about who works harder, there are hard workers and lazy workers at every income level. That wasn't my argument.

What's the point of someone who is on food stamps paying taxes anyways? He will end up with the same net amount. There is absolutely no way that everyone can be a net giver. Some are gonna be net takers.

My main point is that you should be thankful you're a giver and not a taker. I wonder if anyone on this thread actually knows what its like to be dirt poor. I know anyone that comes out with the cell phone and cable argument has no clue whatsoever. When you've had months without electricity or gas in a Houston summer, and when you have nothing to eat for dinner except for potatoes and beans, and your kids are eating free breakfast and lunch at school, come back to me. Otherwise, you have no clue about the people you are talking about.
 
Its the rhetoric, JohnnyM.

The latest example is this "economic stimulus" discussion.

From the get-go, the usual suspects insisted that the relief "include the working middle class".

Well, lo and behold, now it turns out that including the "working middle class" is going to be to the exclusion of anyone who makes over $150,000 (as a couple).

So, by implication, those who are beyond $150,000 are either not considered "working" or, have so much, they don't "need" a rebate.
 
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