Whomever are you referring to?
The Innocence Project
- Thread starter NJlonghorn
- Start date
Do you have an article that explains why so many people now believe the ex killed her?
As do you, glass houses, etc
This has good information on the case. Obviously it's not impossible for him to be guilty, but there's a hell of a lot of reasonable doubt and some pretty bad prosecutorial misconduct. It's not just liberals calling for his case to be reviewed. A bipartisan group of lawmakers has called for it, and many of them are conservatives.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
I like to use the rosanne quote about glass ***** houses. But, yes.
I will endeavor to rise above this sea of bitter humanity.
I will also try to quit being an *******.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
If there is ANY doubt and there is the possibility for DNA evidence to provide more facts it’s silly to fight against its use
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Reasonable doubt is the standard, and I can live with that.
Although, ironically...Rodney Reed may not be able to do so.
I have qualms about denial of testing simply because of AEDPA time expiry, but where it is literally a life or death question, it makes little sense to deny the testing UNLESS it can be shown the item(s) were known to exist in the very beginning of the defense or at the time of the initial round of appellate activity.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
I just looked at that image. Andy Williams was straight up dreamy!
Thanks. I read it. Now I am curious - is there anyone on death row that the Innocence Project refuses to support? Not a 'we don't have enough people to help you', but straight up 'nah, you're guilty.' And sadly it looks like the Innocence Project doesn't have a perfect record either with Steven Avery getting out of jail only to murder someone two years later.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
That's a red herring. Avery was wrongfully convicted. I could just as well argue that 18 years in the slammer turned him into a murderer. Whatever he did after his release is not the fault of those who actually proved he was wrongfully convicted.
Is that wrongful incarceration means its okay to become a murder? And look at that, Avery maintained his innocence in the 2005 murder for which he was convicted. Point being - is the Innocence Project so angry at incarceration that they believe any inmate who claims to be innocent?
I don't recall them being a big fan of James Demouchette...who actually killed more than one person WHILE ON DEATH ROW. Seems the jury got the question correct about future dangerousness on that one...
Remember also that someone NOT being shown conclusively to actually have committed the offense for which they were sentenced to death does not preclude them from having a propensity for future violence...
wtf
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
The Innocence Project's admissions criteria are different in each state, but a chance of proving actual innocence is always required. For example, the criteria in Texas state that the convict's application must "describes a reasonable possibility of actual innocence." Submit a Case — Innocence Project of Texas (innocencetexas.org)
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
Your UNLESS clause is where we will have to agree to disagree. If actual innocence can be proven, I don't care why the defendant didn't raise the issue earlier. If the defendant's innocence can be proven, his conviction should be overturned.
As I have gotten older, I’ve softened my attitude towards the death penalty. I’m for it in limited no doubt cases, but feel it should occur the same afternoon of a verdict. For other cases, make them miserable in prison.
I agree with Deez on the innocence project though for the cases where it’s not blatantly obvious.
I agree with Deez on the innocence project though for the cases where it’s not blatantly obvious.
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
I hope you aren't suggesting that Avery's conviction -- for a rape he definitively did not commit -- should have been upheld because he might someday commit a different crime.
In the wake of the Michael Morton Act, prosecutors are VERY specific about each and every item, whether a video, audio, or piece of physical evidence or report.
Yep should have died in 1966.
He is one example...Demouchette was arguably the poster child. McDuff just got more press because his victims where white teen girls.
What I could tell you about the behind-the-scenes stuff on McDuff's release, revocation and subsequent reinstatement to parole supervision could fill a few chapters. Interestingly enough, the staff attorney who set aside the revocation was terminated and ALSO later reinstated...and was someone who oversaw my Section when I was in the Central Office in the late 90's...
Suffice it to say...not unlike my time working at Ellis, Ferguson, and Eastham in the 80's...I know where the Parole Division and Board bodies were buried (figuratively speaking).
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
As I understand it, the Michael Morton Act only addresses one of the many causes for wrongful convictions -- prosecutors wrongfully withholding exculpatory evidence. There are many other reasons convictions can be wrong.
The criminal justice system would collapse if we tried to fix every wrongful conviction. But in the extreme case of the death penalty, we should do everything we can to avoid wrongful executions.
Your approach to this issue essentially turns death-penalty prosecutions into a game that one side wins and the other side loses. Where a defendant loses the game but can later show his probable innocence, I really don't care why he lost the game. He shouldn't be executed for a crime we don't know for sure (or at least for "nearly sure") he committed.
It created a whole host of requirements on new prosecutions. One of those is documenting the compliance with Brady and its progeny.
What you propose allows the convicted felon to constantly throw crap against the wall into perpetuity, and THAT is not a way to handle appeals. The simple reality is that a substantial majority of cases with appellate/writ efforts that SHOULD be time-barred are, in effect, a delaying tactic, not one designed to actually get the conviction set aside.
Spend some time reading the weekly hand-downs from the TxCCA and you would easily see what I mean...
Demouchette was executed the same year the Innocence Project was founded. Did they even have time to comment on Demouchette?
No, I am wondering if the Innocence Project got it wrong. Straight from them is: Hair consistent with the victim's hair was on Avery's shirt (bad sign for Avery), DNA tests were unable to eliminate Avery (not good sign but at least it meant the perp could be someone else), and Avery went on to murder in 2005 (real bad sign. Hmm, if he was willing to murder in the 2000s, he probably was willing to rape in the 1980s). The state crime laboratory linked hair to Gregory Allen, who was incarcerated for a different sex crime. (Could use more explanation on how this is the piece of data to believe not the others.)
I'm willing to stop talking about Avery and say the Innocence Project got this one right because here's where I am going. If we can confidently say convictions have a failure rate, then we can say statically that the Innocence Project should also have a failure rate.
PAROLED with a murder conviction! What a joke.
Let's institute the following approach:
-Ten year limit for appeals of convictions involving the death sentence
-Lawyers and Judges not able to comply with limit serve one year in jail
-Any prosecutor found to have hidden, ignored, or destroyed exculpatory evidence, or fabricated evidence against a person, will receive the same sentence for their prosecutorial misconduct as the victim of their crime. Sentences for prosecutorial misconduct are non-appealable.
That should take care of this issue.
In the end, we all benefit from lawyers in jail, or fewer walking the earth.
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