Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
"Fake News".
The First 100 days
- Thread starter theiioftx
- Start date
"Fake News".
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
We allow non-citizens to join our military. It used to be an incentive for undocumented illegals to gain citizenship. It was a win-win for our military who struggled to fill grunt level roles. In previous generations it helped to add thousands of Filipinos and other nationalities to our ranks.
Keep in mind, these undocumented illegals are not filling roles with top secret access but rather are cannon fodder on the front lines of Afghanistan and Iraq for the past 20 years. This rule now means that if one of these soldiers gains citizenship after the birth of the child, the child doesn't get citizenship retroactively. Honestly, I can't imagine a more honorable way to earning citizenship than putting one's life on the line for the country. This Administration continues to look for any way possible, including those that clearly benefit the USA, to bend over immigrants.
I also wonder how this effects natual born soldier/citizen that marries overseas and has a child with said partner.
Keep in mind, these individuals are still being forced to pay US taxes.
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Husker
You once again seem confused. Green card holders who joined our military were not used as "cannon fodder" in Iraq or Afghanistan anymore than black troops died at higher rates relative to civilian population percentages in Viet Nam.
There may be illegals in the military who entered under MAVNI but the number is very small and they would not likely be cannon fodder.
Have any green card holders or illegals who joined with fake docs died in combat? Yes but it is not common.
If a green card holder subsequently gets citizenship( which they absolutely deserve) then any child they had prior to becoming a citizen will be granted citizenship but not with the wave of a wand. There is a procedure to be followed.
To answer your other question if a member of the military marries a foreign born person and they have a child while still overseas the child is a natural born citizen.
You once again seem confused. Green card holders who joined our military were not used as "cannon fodder" in Iraq or Afghanistan anymore than black troops died at higher rates relative to civilian population percentages in Viet Nam.
There may be illegals in the military who entered under MAVNI but the number is very small and they would not likely be cannon fodder.
Have any green card holders or illegals who joined with fake docs died in combat? Yes but it is not common.
If a green card holder subsequently gets citizenship( which they absolutely deserve) then any child they had prior to becoming a citizen will be granted citizenship but not with the wave of a wand. There is a procedure to be followed.
To answer your other question if a member of the military marries a foreign born person and they have a child while still overseas the child is a natural born citizen.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
That's what this change applies to. It just became harder for those children of non-citizens fighting in our military to become citizens. Evidently you think that's a good thing given your defense of the rule change. We'll have to agree to disagree.
And this wouldn't just apply to illegal immigrants in the military. It would apply to green card holders who came to the US legally.
The green card holder still had to apply for citizenship, but his children born overseas were deemed born in the United States. They were statutory birthright citizens.
It won't affect many, but those it will affect will be significantly impacted. And DoD civilians will be greatly impacted if they have to physically return to the United States. And I know. Who gives a **** about civilian federal employees? **** 'em. Well, they support the military. If they have to needlessly go on leave for something like this, it impacts military personnel.
Of course it isn't from Trump himself. However, it probably isn't from a career person either. If it was, why wouldn't it have happened sooner? It is probably from a Trump-appointed senior official within the agency.
First of all the military will accept illegals only if they came here before age 16 and only if they have certain needed skills . And can pass a background check Which means there are not many illegals in the military. It was not until Bush that illegals could join at all, well unless they used fake docs.
So no illegals are not cannon fodder. That is a silly statement.
Mr D I do not think you are right about about green card holders serving in military overseas and having a child born overseas being an automatic citizen.. Is there a written reg on that? As I understand it a child of a non citizen Not born in the US does not have birthright citizenship but can get citizenship once the green card holder parent gets citizenship.
Btw the DOD estimates the melding of policies will affect 20 to 25 children a year based on previous inquiries from APO and FPO addresses.
So no illegals are not cannon fodder. That is a silly statement.
Mr D I do not think you are right about about green card holders serving in military overseas and having a child born overseas being an automatic citizen.. Is there a written reg on that? As I understand it a child of a non citizen Not born in the US does not have birthright citizenship but can get citizenship once the green card holder parent gets citizenship.
Btw the DOD estimates the melding of policies will affect 20 to 25 children a year based on previous inquiries from APO and FPO addresses.
The policy alert linked in the article explains the change. The relevant information is Part E.
I have every confidence that it will not affect many people. Most people serving overseas are already US citizens and don't adopt. But if you're one of the few who are impacted, it sucks to be you. And if you're also a DoD civilian and affected by it, it really sucks to be you.
You are a smart guy and lawyer. There must be a deeper reason for doing this besides just screwing over some folks. Maybe there is a good reason?
Here is the part in your link that explains it
"For example, if a service member or government employee who is not yet a citizen is deployed overseas and has a child with another non-U.S. citizen while deployed, their child is not a citizen under the existing law. And were that service member to become a citizen while in the service and still living abroad, that child will no longer receive automatic citizenship by living with them; originally, that child was considered as "residing in the United States" if they were a permanent resident and were living with a U.S. citizen parent abroad. That is no longer the case, because it has differed with policy from the State Department, and according to USCIS, didn't adhere to the statutory text.
The State Department doesn't see it that way," the official said. "If that same child, or the parent for that child applies for a passport for the child, the State Department will reject it and say no, you're not residing in the U.S. and you are not a U.S. citizen. We said you are residing in the U.S., even though you're not in the U.S. So what we did is change that policy to stick to what the statute says and align with the State Department, which is residing inside the United States."
So the changes were made to align with existing State policy and correct conflicts in existing regs.
"For example, if a service member or government employee who is not yet a citizen is deployed overseas and has a child with another non-U.S. citizen while deployed, their child is not a citizen under the existing law. And were that service member to become a citizen while in the service and still living abroad, that child will no longer receive automatic citizenship by living with them; originally, that child was considered as "residing in the United States" if they were a permanent resident and were living with a U.S. citizen parent abroad. That is no longer the case, because it has differed with policy from the State Department, and according to USCIS, didn't adhere to the statutory text.
The State Department doesn't see it that way," the official said. "If that same child, or the parent for that child applies for a passport for the child, the State Department will reject it and say no, you're not residing in the U.S. and you are not a U.S. citizen. We said you are residing in the U.S., even though you're not in the U.S. So what we did is change that policy to stick to what the statute says and align with the State Department, which is residing inside the United States."
So the changes were made to align with existing State policy and correct conflicts in existing regs.
You should know the military isn't under the State Department, right? It's a separate and equal agency. We used to be hostile to bureaucrats and ******* at the State Department being held out as authorities on what the military should be doing.
But if Trump did it, it must be ok.
Maybe there is, and if you'll PayPal me a $2,000 retainer, I'll get right on it at $250 per hour. I'd normally charge $350, but I'll give you the Hornfans Special.
Sorry, I maxed out my PayPal on Hornfans sponsorship. Pro bono would be fine.Maybe there is, and if you'll PayPal me a $2,000 retainer, I'll get right on it at $250 per hour. I'd normally charge $350, but I'll give you the Hornfans Special.
Mr D
Was this necessary? "You should know the military isn't under the State Department, right? It's a separate and equal agency."
Can you think of a reason someone overseas in the military would need the services of the State Dept? Do you know what a DS2029 is?
These changes as explained in your link were not to hassle green card people in the military overseas. nor will it affect large numbers of people> Every law policy or reg will inconvenience someone.
And you said "Of course it isn't from Trump himself."
Was this necessary? "You should know the military isn't under the State Department, right? It's a separate and equal agency."
Can you think of a reason someone overseas in the military would need the services of the State Dept? Do you know what a DS2029 is?
These changes as explained in your link were not to hassle green card people in the military overseas. nor will it affect large numbers of people> Every law policy or reg will inconvenience someone.
And you said "Of course it isn't from Trump himself."
It shouldn't be necessary, but it became necessary when we started deciding that what's good for the State Department is good for the Defense Department. We're talking about two distinct agencies with very different missions. There's no reason why military personnel should get kicked in the nuts because the State Department has a different view on something. They aren't the ultimate authority.
Yes, I can, but what's your point? What bearing does that have on the issue at hand?
Yes, I do. Deez, Jr was born in Germany.
Whether they are made to hassle green card holders in the military or not, why do it? What problem are we solving by putting and DoD civilian personnel (albeit not many) through the wringer?
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
It's the man serving one up to the brown people.
Mr D
Surely you understand what part the State Dept plays with citizenship issues of military DOD people and civilians serving or living overseas? Who do you think should have authority on US citizenship issues of people living overseas?
..In the article you linked it explained the conflicts there were with the USCIS and State.
It also sounds like in resolving the conflicts they tried to minimize as much as possible the procedures for everyone including green card holders and people who want to adopt..
As with any law etc there will be some people inconvenienced more than others.
Surely you understand what part the State Dept plays with citizenship issues of military DOD people and civilians serving or living overseas? Who do you think should have authority on US citizenship issues of people living overseas?
..In the article you linked it explained the conflicts there were with the USCIS and State.
It also sounds like in resolving the conflicts they tried to minimize as much as possible the procedures for everyone including green card holders and people who want to adopt..
As with any law etc there will be some people inconvenienced more than others.
Well, that's my very white hand picking up a very golden beer, and if we adopted, it would surely impact me.
Would those rules put you in, like your beer, a Spezial Hell?
You could say that. Lol. "Hell" is simply what Germans call a traditional, pale, Bavarian lager, though the term is often used to describe other light-colored beers.
Here the term used is Helles. I knew the style of beer it was; it's just funny to see that term on the label.
I see "helles" used here too, but my German isn't quite good enough to know which term is appropriate in a given situation. As much as I love beer, I should know. Kinda pathetic.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Interesting thread here about the sharing of keyhole imagery. Imagine if the brown suited president did this?
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Tariffs don't increase jobs. More jobs in the US use tariffed commodities to make products than to make tariffed products.
Economies are complex, so slower contraction of manufacturing jobs is benefiting from other factors. I would point to lower corporate taxes and regulations, which are a hidden tax.
If there were no tariffs you could expect even better market for manufacturing.
Economies are complex, so slower contraction of manufacturing jobs is benefiting from other factors. I would point to lower corporate taxes and regulations, which are a hidden tax.
If there were no tariffs you could expect even better market for manufacturing.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
There is no reason to try and imagine when we already know exactly how Obama would deal with Iran (assuming this is whom you meant)
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