The coach we fired and treated like a dog is destroying #10 Miami

Mack lost his edge and couldnt recruit. He got blownout frequently—-ex17-55 vs OU. I remember when K-State beat our *** 39-14 and attempted only 4 passes.

Besides he hired Manny Diaz as a savior for our defense. - so he had some flaws to name a few.
 
Mack's lost 3 games this year. He lost to Florida State, for god's sake. How would that play at UT?
If the most recent game their teams have played is the barometer, both Mack and Herman look awesome. But look at the entire body of work before genuflecting.
 
Mack's lost 3 games this year. He lost to Florida State, for god's sake. How would that play at UT?
If the most recent game their teams have played is the barometer, both Mack and Herman look awesome. But look at the entire body of work before genuflecting.

This is Macks Second year? The Fla st loss I agree is a negative data point but I see a lot of upside since Mack got there. They dang near beat Clemson last year in his first season! He Just dominated the #10 team in country in every phase. Mack is going to have them perennially in the top 10 year after year going forward. I would bet on it and he very well could win a national championship there before hes done.
 
Really don't like the thread title because I don't see Mack Brown as the victim of anything. He brought the program to great heights and then as has been mentioned so many times before, he got completely lazy and ran things into the ground. He went out like a ***** and scuttled things before he left.

Miami isn't a top 10 team and I think Diaz will be exposed as a fraud on a long enough timeline. He's never stayed anywhere long enough to graduate even one recruiting class and I'm not sure he knows how build and maintain anything. He must have been having BYU PTSD yesterday afternoon though :lmao:. He's got to be the only coach in history to give up 550 rushing yards or more in a game working for and then against the same head coach.
 
There is no doubt that UT treated a man who brought UT to significance poorly.
Money has nothing to do with it.
 
There is no doubt that UT treated a man who brought UT to significance poorly.
Money has nothing to do with it.

Complacency had everything to do with it. He got lazy and it bit him in the ***. Past success doesn't secure your future. If I decided to just collect a paycheck it wouldn't be long before I would be looking for another job. Even Mack agreed he had gotten complacent and too comfortable.
 
Mack's lost 3 games this year. He lost to Florida State, for god's sake. How would that play at UT?
If the most recent game their teams have played is the barometer, both Mack and Herman look awesome. But look at the entire body of work before genuflecting.
Genuflecting? Come on man, not everyone here has a BS degree. No reason to be sesquipedalian.
 
This is Macks Second year? The Fla st loss I agree is a negative data point but I see a lot of upside since Mack got there. They dang near beat Clemson last year in his first season! He Just dominated the #10 team in country in every phase. Mack is going to have them perennially in the top 10 year after year going forward. I would bet on it and he very well could win a national championship there before hes done.
Get used to him losing big games by large margins and then losing to teams he had no business losing to. The basketball school won’t fire him.
 
Get used to him losing big games by large margins and then losing to teams he had no business losing to. The basketball school won’t fire him.

Yeah, kind of like his first four years at UT till he won the title? yeah, youre right, its a bad trajectory, glad we dont have a coach like that.
 
Yeah, kind of like his first four years at UT till he won the title? yeah, youre right, its a bad trajectory, glad we dont have a coach like that.
He’s getting up there. At some point the recruits will wondering who that old man is muttering on the sideline. It’s a mirage and it’s a basketball conference with one school dominating.
 
This is Macks Second year? The Fla st loss I agree is a negative data point but I see a lot of upside since Mack got there. They dang near beat Clemson last year in his first season! He Just dominated the #10 team in country in every phase. Mack is going to have them perennially in the top 10 year after year going forward. I would bet on it and he very well could win a national championship there before hes done.

I'll take that bet. I agree Mack is doing a great job now. The time away did him good. But I don't think we can ignore his downside at UT either.
 
Mack was a good coach until the Colt injury and subsequent loss to Bama. Notice I didn't say great coach. A great coach would not have risked his franchise player by running him into the best D-line in college football at the time. Especially with our O-line at the time.
After that loss, Mack QUIT. He didn't coach for the next four years. As far as I'm concerned, he fired himself.
 
Sadly Herman has proven to be a liability, potentially damaging the program for years to come and in ways no one would have imagined.
I'm going to use a political analogy, without using politics directly--watch how I do this!
Lots of people will channel anger specifically at, e.g., Barack Obama or Donald Trump, as if that leader who is doing/saying things they disagree with is their problem, and if only he would be gone, all that unpleasant disagreeable opinion and action would be gone. I'll say, "your real problem is with the 180,000,000 who agree with him, who won't be gone when he's gone."

The problem here is the players and the generation. (Look at the band, too.) Herman is 45, so he graduated from HS in about 1993. He's the same age as Angelina Jolie or Charlize Theron. He's trying to lead an organization of young people who all just cast their first vote for president a few weeks ago, and who have been told via media this year, that the most important problem of our time is race relations. They have been taught that Pilgrims are bad, the Alamo is bad, Columbus was bad, Thomas Jefferson was bad, bombing Japan was bad, etc. They mostly have no idea that half the nation or more thinks that's all nuts.

So, when you simply want to say, the Eyes of Texas is bad, that seems like an easy add-on to the enormous pile of past American or Texas culture that is already on the bonfire of cancel. They probably had no idea in the world anyone would even notice that a school song would be important to anyone, since they have seen huge iconic cultural item after item tossed on the fire.

Even when Herman is gone, this will remain the mindset of our players.

On this board, we are dominated by people who like tradition, want the comfort of knowing that some things don't change, that things we valued will be valued by the next generation. UT traditions are part of that for us. It ties not only into sports, but is grafted onto our shared education, our college experience, and our pride in the state of Texas and what it stands for.

We should be realistic that we are not getting that back, even when TH is gone.

Other schools won't notice it that much, because TCU or Tech, or even OU, don't have deep culture and tradition tied to their football. (A&M will take this pretty hard when it hits them next.)

So, while I--as you--won't likely forgive TH for pushing us over the edge on this, he really only was one small last straw, and the problem (for me--they wouldn't see it this way) is the players and how they have been raised.
 
We should be realistic that we are not getting that back, even when TH is gone.
Good post, but I disagree with your premise above.

Leaders stand for something. And those positions throughout history are usually not popular.

Herman represents an absence of leadership and I am starting to wonder about CDC as well. Herman acquiesced. Apparently CDC watched.

If you don’t stand for something, than by default you stand for nothing.
 
Mack was a good coach until the Colt injury and subsequent loss to Bama. Notice I didn't say great coach. A great coach would not have risked his franchise player by running him into the best D-line in college football at the time. Especially with our O-line at the time.
After that loss, Mack QUIT. He didn't coach for the next four years. As far as I'm concerned, he fired himself.
Rick- when Colt ran that sweep, I YELLED at the tv( I have a habit of doing that) before he was hit.
No Colt = no win. Everyone knew that and at that point in the game really poor judgement.
 
I'm all for loving my fellow man...and I do....but dont get it twisted...
What the world sells as love (and peace) is anything but

Good post, but I disagree with your premise above.

Leaders stand for something. And those positions throughout history are usually not popular.

Herman represents an absence of leadership and I am starting to wonder about CDC as well. Herman acquiesced. Apparently CDC watched.

If you don’t stand for something, than by default you stand for nothing.

All good points! TH is 45 and we have to remember he is only 3.5 to 4 years older than millennials! This is the fourth turning we are all living through. Look it up. History is not being taught like it was. Education went liberal first. Probably starting in the mid 80’s. At the public grade school level. The cancel culture was coming for our traditions no matter who coaches UT! Look what they are doing and will do to Trump for standing up to them. He is a leader, TH not so much, but you do have to consider his age.
 
Rick- when Colt ran that sweep, I YELLED at the tv( I have a habit of doing that) before he was hit.
No Colt = no win. Everyone knew that and at that point in the game really poor judgement.
Yep, I was yelling WTF before he was even hit, just like I yelled WTF before I saw the fumble in 1984.
 
Texas had no running game in 2009. Colt was by far the leading rusher, with a series of human tackling dummies at the RB position. The QB sneak was the only running play available in goal line situations. Just bad luck that he was injured in more or less the same way as in the 2006 KSU game.
 
you do have to consider his age.

If Gundy was "a man" at 40, how long do I have to give Binder Boy? 50, 60, 80?

Of course then, Gundy can coach, develop players, improve their talents, and win. No, he can't seem to beat OU, but neither can Binder Boy.
 
A great coach would not have risked his franchise player by running him into the best D-line in college football at the time.

Colt running was a huge part of our success in both 2008 and 2009. The idea that Mack / Greg should have abandoned this (remember when he did that in our bowl game the previous year and we had 3 points at halftime and this board was pissed - then we scored our first TD in the second half when we finally called a QB draw?) because of a nondescript hit that had fluky results is ridiculous.

It wasn't even one of the 50 hardest hits Colt took in his 4 years here. It was the first time he'd ever missed time because of a hit in the open field (his others happened either in the pile after a QB sneak, or from hits in the pocket).
 
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........Herman is 45, so he graduated from HS in about 1993. He's the same age as Angelina Jolie or Charlize Theron....
Maybe we should hire AJ as head coach and have her parade around in a bikini during summer workouts. That would solve our recruiting problems.
 
Mack didn’t need a break or a hiatus. He didn’t get lazy. Maybe a little complacent with success. That happens to a lot of people and then they turn it around. We didn’t fire Darrell Royal after 3 four loss seasons in a row. 1965 a 6-4 record, 1966 a 7-4 record, 1967- a 6-4 record again
We all know what happened in 68-70. Mack could have done the same or not. We will never know. We do know what happened after we got rid of him.
 
Maybe Mack just needed a few years off to recharge his batteries (the results so far at UNC indicate this might be the case). I wonder what would have happened if we had begged him to come back after the Charlie Strong fiasco instead of, you know, hiring the guy who was one of his graduate assistant coaches.
being a HC has got be an exhausting experience these days. especially at a place like UT. It has the public relations requirements of being a politician coupled with the non-stop second guessing of all of us Monday morning quarterbacks. You either have to have the to "demand" production from assistants, (which i think Saban has at a higher level than most) or you have to have the super high energy yourself. If you are the engine yourself, then you are eventually going to run out of steam. That's why so few are able to sustain that magic over time. The "magic" is really just 80 hr work weeks and personally checking, monitoring and inspecting every little piece of the program. If you are not a great delelgator and/or not willing to hold subordinates accountable it will eventually wear you down.
 
NR, while I don’t agree, it’s a fair point. I believe that Mack had to go for all the reasons that have been written on this forum, ad nauseam.

However, some folks learn from their mistakes and I am of the belief that had MB been brought back instead of our hiring Herman, the program would be in better shape today. Of course, that was never considered, nor should it have been at the time.

Sadly Herman has proven to be a liability, potentially damaging the program for years to come and in ways no one would have imagined.
If I could double agree, I would.
 
Look at Darrell Royals record after his first national title. 6-4, 7-4, 6-4. Guess we should have fired him too.

Except we would not have two more titles from 69 and 70.

Had Mack stayed we would have been better off.
 
Did Royal look completely exhausted in 1966? I don't know, but I've never heard that opinion given. Don't know for sure if Mack was exhausted in 2013 but he sure seemed to be. I think he needed the time off. He actually looks younger now than he did 7 years ago, if anything.

We were probably headed downhill in 2014 anyway had we kept him. 2013's 8-5, already not a great record, was a little misleading since all five losses were blowouts and one of the wins was handed to us by the officials. We only outscored opponents by 3 points per game ,and that's including a 56-7 win over New Mexico State. Against BYU/P5 teams we were outscored on the season. And we were set to lose our best WR, best CB, best OG, best OT, best DT and best DE - and roll out with Swoops at quarterback.

Maybe Mack rebounds in 2015/2016 in a way that Strong doesn't, but I highly doubt his 2014 would have been any better.
 

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