the BIGGER picture on birth control debate

H

huisache

2,500+ Posts
The Catholic bishops don't want anybody using birth control, much less abortion. Jesus spoke out against the use of condoms many times, you know.

And one of the two pathetic political parties has put a harness on itself to get the bishops' backing.

So if you are a protestant and work for a catholic hospital, go buy your own contraceptives. They are cheaper than having a kid but keep in mind that the wise celibates (well, some of them anyway) are pretty sure you are going to hell for murdering all those potential fertilizations.
 
According to the Catholic Church, AIDS is bad but not nearly as bad as condoms.

You see, we are commanded to be fruitful and multiply because the poor families and all their kids will be provided for, except when they’re not.
 
If you want to ridicule religious beliefs on contraception that's fine, go to the Quack's board. But this post and yours have absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion on the current controversy and you predictably have added absolutely no substance or intelligent input into it, nor have you addressed the issues that have been raised. You and huisache think it's more productive to sit on the side and throw rocks rather than actually engage in dialogue.

Your response to the question of religious conscience is that the government gets to determine whether your conscience is valid and whether or not you will be allowed to honor it. Regardless of whether I agree with the Catholic position on birth control, that is unacceptable and illegal.
 
huis?
How have these women been getting birth contril pills now?
You do not they are pretty cheap and free to poor people
right? You do know that
so why now all of a sudden is this such a huge problem?
is there anyone who wanted birth control and who had a job that paid health inusranec that could not pay the $15 or so a month?
why did this become such a big issue with bo
 
So do they not have to cover a pregnancy, either, if the mother isn't married?

They are against premarital sex, as well, after all...

And for those who are so concerned about the rising cost of insurance premiums- bear in mind that costs an insurance company a great deal more to pay for maternity treatment than it does a contraceptive. Which gets calculated into the average costs of premiums by the bean counting actuaries.
 
TxSt

And you just summed up the entire problem nicely. When we let the government decide who pays for what, we get into these ridiculous arguments about whether it's cheaper to buy birth control now, or pay for some pregnant crack whores later, or whether condoms are better than pills, or, or, or...

Why doesn't anybody recognize that the root problem is letting the government into the decision making process at all?

If a citizen wants birth control, go get it. If a citizen wants health insurance, go get it. If a citizen wants health insurance that pays for birth control, go get it. The government should have nothing whatsoever to do with any of those decisions. Furthermore, the government should have nothing whatsoever to do with mandating that people who fail to use birth control or pump out babies they can't afford should be given any freebies by the rest of us.

It is not the legitimate business of the federal government to do any of those things. If you think it is, I would refer you to the Constitution of the United States, which is the highest law of the land, and I would challenge you to justify any such federal activities by its provisions.
 
BI, I think you totally missed his point. He is saying that it is no organizations duty to protect the "poor" from themselves. It is the duty of the "poor" to learn through consequences what is the wise choice that leads to good and the foolish choice that leads to bad.
 
So if you are a protestant and work for a catholic hospital, go buy your own contraceptives.
__________________________________________________

how about if you work for anyone, you go buy your own contraceptives and pay for your own abortions. you have completely missed the point of the catholics argument although i believe they went about this all wrong. its a freedom of religion issue, it is also a freedom issue.
 
No Horn89, if the government doesn't take care of the poor they will not starve. Friends, family, churches, nonprofits will all provide services, but ultimately someone else's bad choice doesn't obligate the rest of society to take care of them. Society should help short term and teach so that the same issues do not persist for a lifetime.
 
txST
I see you have been reading the lefty talking points:

"bear in mind that costs an insurance company a great deal more to pay for maternity treatment than it does a contraceptive."

So WHY do you think that insurance companies whose purpose is to make money have not offered that before?

WHY do you and all the lefties think insurance companies have not offered it before now?


BI
this is NOT about the poor. The Poor get birth control free now.

This is NOT about the poor and this is not about it being cheaper for insurance companies
 
actually, the point that triggered the original post was that this pathetic dispute illustrates the thinking of the celibate (some of them anyway) male hierarchy of my church. These guys, and all of them are guys for some reason, have decided that contraception is something that needs to be discouraged in every way.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and they have been pushing that one for as long as I can remember. Why? There is no biblical authority for it other than one old testament bit about god nailing a guy for jacking off. So half the catholic women in the US get brayed at by the male priests because they do it anyway because they don't want a bunch of kids they can't afford.

I came from one of those catholic families that had a kid or two more than it could afford. And my parents bore down and worked through it. And worked, and worked and worked. And stressed and stressed and stressed.

I guess if your needs are taken care of by a bunch of guilt ridden parishioners dropping money in the collection plate every week and you have a bunch of nuns tending to you when you are senile and in a home paid for by the church, little things like that don't bother you much.

In the real world, they do.

I have no problem with restrictions on what health insurance pays for; I don't like the fact that I am subsidizing women getting bigger tits, for example.

My gripe is with a church hierarchy that is inconveniencing people with their stupid, archaic readings of some bronze age mystics who were probably the aggies of their time.

And more particularly, it seems to me that they have intentionally picked an issue to pick a fight with a president they really don't like in an attempt to get rid of him. I don't like him either, and didn't vote for him before and wont this time.

But it really irritates me that this pack of theoretical celibates who operate tax free are trying to rig an election.

And if you don't think that is what they are doing, you need to read the Catholic press a little more closely. Our politicians generally play chess one move at a time, the church thinks in terms of centuries.
 
Couldn't disagree more, Huisache. I think the Catholic Church helped Obama get elected in the first place by conveniently ignoring this kind of stuff before the last election. They knew damn well what was coming with an Obama Administration and they did nothing.
 
huis??
How is the Catholic church ' inconveniencing" anyone especially women?

Who has not gotten BC if they want it? name anyone or name any group
 
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