Joyner has a tendency to rush her layups/shots and IMO is why she misses a lot of layups and baskets close in.great effort by Brooke, a personal high of 32 pts on 12-18 FGs including 7-9 3s.
Two things that the announcers said resonated: Brown and Cox were setting up in the paint where they wanted to-our players were not challenging them until they had set up, kinda late to stop them; Baylor uses that square better than anyone except maybe UConn. Tons of banked shots.
Joyner and the rest of our posts really need to understand the importance of how to use that square to shots, especially layups. Too many were hitting the rim or spinning out because they were shot too low on the square.
Rellah has to learn the same lesson that Joyner did. While she may want to shoot threes, at this point, she is better suited to play inside.
We have got to box out better, especially on defense.
Wallace is just flat out amazing. I thought with Brown going out early in the third that Texas could make a run and build a lead. Wallace just took over that quarter and helped expand the lead. Horns scored 11 pts after Brown went to the bench. Wallace scored 14 by herself, including four shots in the paint (3 were layups) as Baylor went from five up to nine up during that period.
We can beat Baylor but we can't shoot 59% from the FT line. 10-17 from the FT line did not help. Nor can we allow them to outrebound us by 15, including 14-6 on the offensive boards. Joyner is rapidly getting to be the player that gets to the FT line for the team. She needs to be able to hit better than 60% of her FTs.
We matched their energy last night, just did not box out well nor did we finish layups consistently. Horns have to take care of business this last two games and get to the Big 12 tournament to get another shot at Baylor. By that time, both Joyner and Rellah will have continued to improve and we will have an even better shot at winning.
Let's go, Horns. Build on this loss and get another winning streak going.
Texas vs Baylor, Game Two
- Thread starter BabHorn
- Start date
The only thing I disagree with is when you say that the freshmen playing time they deserve. Unless you’re at practice everyday you don’t no what they have or haven’t earned or if they’ve been mentored.
Disagreements are fine. I don't think Kim's threatened at all. I think Kim likes to get in Karen's head (and players, and fans, and anyone else who'll pay attn) so she says things to keep the threads buzzing - lol - much like the POTUS. Gap has not closed - Kim has won 90% of the games vs Coach A. That's not closing the gap. Getting players is good - you can't win without players so recruiting is impt. But getting players and developing players so that they perform when it's time to perform - is where the conversation stops -- as of today -- between these two programs. Do I think Kim notices us (UT), yes. But I don't think noticing is the same as threatened by. So yes, we can agree to disagree here.
That was such a thoughtful and insightful post. We don't have to bash to be honest. We don't have to throw shade on other teams or coaches to amplify the team(s) we love. But what you just said is IT. It's why Texas can't seem to truly become an elite program. Nobody wants to hear it. I hate wthen coaches blame pplayers for losses. Yes, players play the game but so much of what happens on the floor besides effort - goes back to the coach. Period. Coach A. does her share of blaming the players (and on natl TV for Chrissakes) -- and yet she doesn't appear to be upping her game at all as a coach. It's frustrating to say the least. Our coaching staff has to get better. Period. They have to "perform under the lights" just as players do. And sometimes they don't freakin' get it done. It's disappointing. Mulkey gets it done. Geno gets it done. Schafer gets it done. I'm looking forward to adding Texas to that list.
utfannforlife
1,000+ Posts
1. *We have the 16th best offense in the nation. Separated by only 8 ppg from the #1 team (Uconn)
2. *They have earned? How often do you watch practices? Hard to believe the coaches are willfully not playing the best players that put us in positions to win for no reason at all
3. *Hard to say that when we've won multiple games being down at half. They may not make the adjustments WE want them to make but they definitely make changes that work more often than not.
4. *Yes and No. We certainly matched Uconns intensity, they just executed better down the stretch. But agree re: the first matchup with BU
5. Again, not sure I agree with the phrasing because I can typically predict the substitution patterns. I don't always agree, but if they can't be erratic and predictable at the same time
utfannforlife
1,000+ Posts
Again, you act as if programs were built overnight. We literally used to have the exact same conversations when other programs were closing in on Texas. Had the exact same conversations with BU was closing in on KSU and OU. We went 1-1 against them last season, we could still go 1-2 against them this season. If you don't think UT vs BU is better today than it was 6 seasons ago, I would have to wonder how much you're really paying attention.
SAtown Hook 'EM
First Time Poster
Longtime HF viewer, first post. While I have to agree that the gap has closed. It has only closed slightly. More of the games are competitive with us actually believing that we can win later into the games. There were times just a few years ago where I was just hoping not to get blown out in the first half. Usually the games were not in doubt after halftime. We are definitely better, but like almost everyone has said, the offense needs to be retooled. Most importantly, BB IQ needs to improve significantly. Basics and fundamentals are lacking in a lot of areas with this team and that is where Baylor excels. With the freshmen only getting spot minutes throughout the year, they come in as sophomores only slightly improved from freshmen year. So where Mulkey gets 3 solid star years out of her star players, we are lucky to get 2. I hope things change in the near future, but I have been hoping that for a while. Confidence and experience can only come through playing. While I love all of our ladies, there are some that are progress stoppers, regardless of where they were rated in recruiting. I won't name any names, but you have to give players with star potential the playing time and experience they need to become the players you hope for them to become. Players whose upside is limited are players that get recruited over. Once we stop being so loyal to a player just because they are now upperclassmen, players will start developing at a faster pace. Here's hoping something dramatically changes between now and the tournament!!
Baylor girls were wearing Big 12 Championship hats at the press conference. Why would this be an issue since they won the Big 12?? They didn't hand the hats out on the court (which is what most teams would do when winning at home). They waited until they got in the locker room to celebrate.
I know this is a huge disappointment to once again lose to BU and the Big 12, but we can/should concentrate on some positive things. McCarty had the game of a life time and deserves tons of praise from her fans. This girl has given us years of her heart and great entertainment. And how I will miss Atkins! Atkins, to me, has progressed the most this year and was fun to watch. When she got the ball, there was a high probability that it would go in the basket. Girls like these 2 are what makes UT a great team and exciting to cheer for.
Just like the team, we need to move on. We are in a good position for the NCAA Tourney....
Although I certainly don’t think our staff should be void of criticism much of this I don’t agree with either.
1. Our offense is designed to showcase the talents of Ariel, Brooke and to a lesser extent LaShann. I’m don’t know of anyone else on the team that has the offensive skills to showcase other than Rellah, and she’s reduced her PT for other reasons. When we consistently have other players that miss 3 point blank shots in a row standing right under the basket that most 8th graders wouldn’t miss I don’t know what other options we have. I’ve criticized Karen myself for not recruiting players with more offensive skill, but I also don’t know if it’s not from a lack of trying and just not getting the results.
2. I haven’t seen much from anyone but Rellah and her lack of PT is her own fault. No facts to back this statement up.
3. I think this is completely wrong. The best indicator of adjustments is how a team performs after halftime and not only is the 3rd qtr our best qtr, but Texas is one of the top teams in the country in 3rd qtr performance over average. It’s the qtr we dominate. One of the greatest criticisms of Charlie Strong was how bad his 3 qrts were, showing not adjustment. Karen is exactly the opposite.
4. Has nothing to do with intensity and everything to do with talent.. How spoiled our fanbase is. Not everyone is going to get a Geno A. He’s the John Wooden of the women’s game. Karen may not be perfect, but consistently in the top 10 is pretty damn good. I would tend to even be more critical of Jerritt than Karen. He’s been at it a lot longer and recruited even better, yet has only 1 NC to show for it when there’s not a completely dominant team in VB like uconn in BB. His strategic deficiencies are often pointed out on the VB board. And don’t even get me started on CC, a brain dead dog could out coach her.
5. Without an example like I gave in #3 or more detail this is nothing but an opinion. Unless you are at the practices and also know the game plans you have no idea if this is true or not. And some of the substitutions are because of Ariel getting into foul trouble early causing Karen to make substitutions she doesn’t want to make. And quite honestly I’m just not sure we have that many players that have a high IQ. Again, we can talk about recruiting, but you can’t expect players that aren’t as smart to outsmart the competition.
One of the best posts I've seen here on quite some time. For the record, I am extremely pleased with the strides KA has made. My argument/complaint is what seems to be her unwillingness to incorporate some variety and creativity. I'm happy with the progress, but not satisfied. We're getting the talent... That's half the battle... but the talent needs to be better developed and our strategies broadened. I'm hard on KA because I WANT to see her succeed. I believe she's got what it takes if she'd just open up to change and innovation. So far that appears to be a big "if."
BBV_Horn
1,000+ Posts
I am sure they were speaking about the possibility of both being inducted into Naismith HOF...NOT about Jordan..
I missed the game last night much to my dismay so I’m just watching the recorded version. I thought maybe I recorded the wrong game because nowhere did I see a lack of competitiveness, fight or fear in the Longhorns posted on this site. Not. Even. Close.
They came back from a concerning halftime deficit to take the lead. They were down 15 in the 4th and lost by (with mostly BU starters in the game)
Baylor is not #3 in the country because Texas is bad. They didn’t win the Big 12 because Texas is bad or has a bad coach. They’re a damn good team. So is Texas. I’ll take our chances in 3rd matchup.
All these first time posters are full of it. (I lurked at first but didn’t wait to join for my first post like these did but maybe I’m an aberration). I suspect to say the least and found very little to agree with quite honestly.
Baylor hit some big shots and out rebounded the Longhorns. Not a game we could afford playing without Audrey-Ann because we all know BU’s strength
Comments on freshmen playing time clearly demonstrates a lack of reality. Not sure you’ve been following the team all season.
To denigrate a Top Ten team the way some of you have is beyond fandom in my opinion
They came back from a concerning halftime deficit to take the lead. They were down 15 in the 4th and lost by (with mostly BU starters in the game)
Baylor is not #3 in the country because Texas is bad. They didn’t win the Big 12 because Texas is bad or has a bad coach. They’re a damn good team. So is Texas. I’ll take our chances in 3rd matchup.
All these first time posters are full of it. (I lurked at first but didn’t wait to join for my first post like these did but maybe I’m an aberration). I suspect to say the least and found very little to agree with quite honestly.
Baylor hit some big shots and out rebounded the Longhorns. Not a game we could afford playing without Audrey-Ann because we all know BU’s strength
Comments on freshmen playing time clearly demonstrates a lack of reality. Not sure you’ve been following the team all season.
To denigrate a Top Ten team the way some of you have is beyond fandom in my opinion
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Good Lord. Some of you people are just silly. The fact that Kim Mulkey is a good coach does not mean that Karen is not. The fact that Baylor has a good team does not mean that Texas doesn’t.
Karen’s first year as HC was god awful and I was one of the first to criticize and demand that she be fired. The leap from year one to two was so dramatically good that I posted an apology on here and admitted I was wrong.
I just have to laugh at those of you suggesting she isn’t a good coach. She is the current Big 12 COY and her recent teams have made it to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8. She is currently coaching a team that is ranked #6 in the nation. She has managed to fairly consistently beat every coach in the conference except one. We no longer even have to worry about getting in the big dance, now we have the luxury of wondering how good a seed we will get - currently projected to be a 2 seed.
If winning national championships or even conference championships every year is your only gage, then there is really only one, maybe two coaches that would be considered good. How unrealistic is that?
I recently read a story about our former dynamo of a point guard, Nina Norma. Many of you might remember her as the giant slayer who helped Texas defeat Pat Summit’s Volunteers. If you want to know why Texas and coaches like Karen and, yes, Jody are head and shoulders better than Baylor and that Waco hag, I suggest you read this article and pay close attention to what Nina says in the last two paragraphs : http://texassports.com/news/2016/7/...mens-basketballs-nina-norman.aspx?path=wbball
Now go read Brittney Griner’s book. Kim Mulkey might currently win more games than Karen, but I promise you she doesn’t hold a candle to Karen (or Jody) and Baylor might as well be a feeder school to THE University of Texas.
Karen’s first year as HC was god awful and I was one of the first to criticize and demand that she be fired. The leap from year one to two was so dramatically good that I posted an apology on here and admitted I was wrong.
I just have to laugh at those of you suggesting she isn’t a good coach. She is the current Big 12 COY and her recent teams have made it to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8. She is currently coaching a team that is ranked #6 in the nation. She has managed to fairly consistently beat every coach in the conference except one. We no longer even have to worry about getting in the big dance, now we have the luxury of wondering how good a seed we will get - currently projected to be a 2 seed.
If winning national championships or even conference championships every year is your only gage, then there is really only one, maybe two coaches that would be considered good. How unrealistic is that?
I recently read a story about our former dynamo of a point guard, Nina Norma. Many of you might remember her as the giant slayer who helped Texas defeat Pat Summit’s Volunteers. If you want to know why Texas and coaches like Karen and, yes, Jody are head and shoulders better than Baylor and that Waco hag, I suggest you read this article and pay close attention to what Nina says in the last two paragraphs : http://texassports.com/news/2016/7/...mens-basketballs-nina-norman.aspx?path=wbball
Now go read Brittney Griner’s book. Kim Mulkey might currently win more games than Karen, but I promise you she doesn’t hold a candle to Karen (or Jody) and Baylor might as well be a feeder school to THE University of Texas.
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Last night's game was not lost because KA is a lesser coach than KM. It was lost because Baylor has the biggest posts in the country who are hard to match up with and hard to equal in rebounding. There are hundreds of nuances we like to discuss, but that is the main reason for last night. Period. They are beatable, however, and we might just pull it off in a couple of weeks.
Meanwhile, I am enjoying my memories of Brooke's amazing game.
Meanwhile, I am enjoying my memories of Brooke's amazing game.
TempestHorn
500+ Posts
I don't think the tight conversation had anything to do with Jordan or with the Hall of Fame. Prior to shaking hands with Tina, Kim got into yet another back and forth with one of our fans sitting on the first row at mid-court. The fan had turned to go up the steps, Kim was still looking up after her when she pulled Tina into the tight conversation. I'm sure she was complaining to Tina about how poor little ole innocent Kim was accosted by a Texas fan.
On the post-game radio show with Craig Way, Coach A mentioned those very early, unforced turnovers in the first quarter as momentum-killing. And, of course, the poor rebounding.
As others noted, I would throw in poor free shooting.
And, Joyner and Jordan in particular, would miss a relatively easy shot near the basket, then would either fail to get back on defense or commit a foul, and Baylor would convert -- each at least a four-point swing.
I think better 3-point shooting (earlier than late in the fourth quarter) could have helped us significantly as Baylor was only making 2's. It's the great equalizer in hoops, and we just aren't consistent with that as we need to be to counteract Baylor's inside game.
Letting Cohen goes off was the real different, IMO. She brought it on both ends. Brooke could not defend Wallace in the first game, and Lashann couldn't do it either.
Ariel and Jatarie getting into foul trouble definitely didn't help our gameplan.
So, those are the primary reasons why we lost.
Coach A mentioned on her TV show that Sutton had fighting off a bug since before the OSU game; hopes the next few days will get her back to 100%.
As others noted, I would throw in poor free shooting.
And, Joyner and Jordan in particular, would miss a relatively easy shot near the basket, then would either fail to get back on defense or commit a foul, and Baylor would convert -- each at least a four-point swing.
I think better 3-point shooting (earlier than late in the fourth quarter) could have helped us significantly as Baylor was only making 2's. It's the great equalizer in hoops, and we just aren't consistent with that as we need to be to counteract Baylor's inside game.
Letting Cohen goes off was the real different, IMO. She brought it on both ends. Brooke could not defend Wallace in the first game, and Lashann couldn't do it either.
Ariel and Jatarie getting into foul trouble definitely didn't help our gameplan.
So, those are the primary reasons why we lost.
Coach A mentioned on her TV show that Sutton had fighting off a bug since before the OSU game; hopes the next few days will get her back to 100%.
This is a great great point. Things take time yes - but great coaching is great coaching no matter when it happens - early in a coach's career or later. And we don't have a great game coach. There's no getting around that -- that has already hurt us and it will continue to haunt us. 7-8 years is plenty of time to become a better xs and os coach. Some coaches never become great in-game minds, but those coaches also rarely win titles. This isn't just about Coach A. this is a larger conversation. If you aren't going to be good at making in-game decisions, it becomes increasingly difficult to win a title (conference or national). Same thing goes for players - if you aren't great under pressure, hard to close a game. The poster that said that criticizing our team/coach isn't "true fandom" is perhaps being a little naive or sensitive. You can love a team and respect what a coach brings without being totally blind to the areas that they need to improve on. I just think we need to manage our expectations -- if winning a title is the goal here. Won't likely happen unless all the factors come together at the right time -- inclluding better xos and os -- and less random substitution patterns.
Kim's an agitator and a gnat. She uses every media opportunity to be nasty or passive aggressive yes. But...concerned about a team that has beaten you ONCE in almost a decade? Concerned about a team that looks like they don't believe they can beat you? Nipping at your heels? Really? That's funny. Ya'll are funny.
LutherIsMyDog
1,000+ Posts
I just realized that Hornfans has an "Ignore" feature. It's likely to bring more peace and harmony to my life.
BabHorn
10,000+ Posts
Great game to watch, not the outcome I expected but still a great game. Wallace and Brooke were outstanding.
IMO, Mulkey may not feel threatened but she is certainly aware of the progress being made by Coach A and the Longhorns.
This is funny. Obvious you did not watch Jatarie's reaction to a foul called on her. The same reaction from both players, and realistically, from a lot of players. Although Cox did throw in that arm wave at the ref that got her a tech. I don't think it warranted a tech but, then, I am not a ref.
Different opinions here, Coach A doesn't look scared to me, she looks pissed.
Same thing as not using the square correctly, poor/lack of practice and/or poor coaching or lack of following proper coaching. I really don't think that Coach Thompson haven't shown the posts how to use the square.
Given the players the staff recruited last year and for next season, that has changed. They are recruiting outstanding offensively skilled players.
This is going to be the game to remember when I think of Brooke playing.
Good find, Luther. It certainly has for me.
Yes, I certainly realize most players react to fouls called. When a player becomes consistent with bad reactions is when it becomes more and more noticeable. That was my point.
It's too bad these first-time posters didn't make their first post on here about something positive, like when we upset Cal three seasons ago to reach the Sweet 16 for the first time in like 12 years despite having lost senior Nneka Enemkpali to a season-ending injury; reaching the Elite 8 two seasons ago; playing for a couple of Big 12 conference championships, etc. None of those things were accomplished by Coach Goestenkors her four seasons at Texas, and she had led due Duke to several ACC championships and NCAA Final Fours.
Coach A did not have a lot of talent when she took the reigns at Texas. Coach Mulkey inherited a very talented group from Sonja Hogg, including a couple of All-Americans, IIRC.
If you go to one of the Tennessee Lady Vols boards, they are talking about replacements for Holly Warlick. Coach Aston is one of the first names mentioned.
I just think some Texas fans only come out of the woodwork after losses, and not wins. SMH
Coach A did not have a lot of talent when she took the reigns at Texas. Coach Mulkey inherited a very talented group from Sonja Hogg, including a couple of All-Americans, IIRC.
If you go to one of the Tennessee Lady Vols boards, they are talking about replacements for Holly Warlick. Coach Aston is one of the first names mentioned.
I just think some Texas fans only come out of the woodwork after losses, and not wins. SMH
BabHorn
10,000+ Posts
My point is that Cox's reaction is typical nowadays of how players react when a foul is called on them.
No, what?
http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/kim_mulkey_247648.html
According to Mulkey's bio, she took over a program from Sonja Hogg that had finished 9-22 for the 1999-2000 season. That team had Danielle Crockrom; don't recall why that squad failed miserably. Sheila Lambert was a JUCO transfer being recruited by Mulkey for Louisiana Tech; she signed with Baylor in May after Mulkey was hired. Lambert was a Kodak All-American and Crockrom had Joyner Holmes like strength and athleticism.
In 2002, Sheila Lambert and Danielle Crockrom were selected in the first round of WNBA Draft.
Mulkey's results her first 4 seasons:
- 2000-01: 21-9, NCAA First Round
- 2001-02: 27-6, NCAA Second Round (upset at home by Drake)
- 2002-03: 24-11, WNIT Runner-up
- 2003-04: 26-9, NCAA Sweet 16
Even after the national title in her fifth year, her following seasons were maxed out at NCAA Sweet 16, NCAA Second Round, and NCAA Second Round.
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LutherIsMyDog
1,000+ Posts
IMO our media department has done a great job this year with all Texas sports.
Danielle Crockrum could barely walk and chew gum at the same time until Mulkey and Brock (whom she hired from Grayson County College where Sheila Lambert played) got a hold of her and DEVELOPED her into a two-time All Big 12 selection. I remember this for a couple of reasons, but mostly because I was shocked by the difference in Crockrum between her sophomore and junior seasons... she didn't even look like the same player. Sheila Lambert was going to sign with La Tech until Barmore retired and Mulkey went to Baylor because the idiots at La Tech wouldn't give her a five year contract. To say KM inherited two All-Americans from Sonja Hogg is a false statement.
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