Statehood or not for Palestine?

majorwhiteapples

majorwhiteapples

5,000+ Posts
Now this is a corner that Obama can do no right in.

I actually have not real horse in this race other than I wish we could get out of the UN and every other country in the world, and concentrate on our own affairs.

I truly belive that Obama is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Israel is one of our two or three strongest allies but then again Obama is a Nobel Peace Prize Winner!

I forget why he won that award, anyway, I believe it is a lose lose situation, it will be interesting to watch how this plays out.
 
The palestinians already have a state, its Jordan. I'll tell you how happy everyone is, real estate is booming in israel on what would be the jewish side and guess who is buying it? the arabs. nobody wants to be a part of a so0called palestinian state and live under the oppressive laws they would enforce.
 
General, if there hadnt been 10 times as many Arabs living in Israel before 1948, I might agree with you. It would be nice if that was indeed the case. Unfortunately a good deal of them are still alive today, or their kids are, and can remember when they lived in Israel on their own land in their own houses. My father is older than Israel. There are a lot of people alive that are older than Israel. This is a very real and very present problem.

I wish that Jordan was the easy answer. I really wish it was.
 
Israel is one of our best allies? When did that start?

They are a hanger on and the classic example of the tail wagging the dog due to their influence here.

I admire Israel as much as any country in the world but they are a deficit as an ally.

But I agree with the op that he is in a bad spot.

If he vetoes Palestinian statehood we are further cooked in the middle east. If doesn't, he has no chance in 2012.

And that psychotic prick Netanyahu gets to laugh at him either way.
 
Israel should leave the West Bank just as we are leaving Iraq and Afghanistan. Building permanent Israeli settlements in the West Bank is total bull ****.

This is just another good example of the many problems caused by religious people.
 
Roger is correct- if you think the Jews should leave parts of Israel for Arabs who once lived there- be prepared to defend why you are not giving up your house to Native Americans, Mexicans, Spaniards etc.

Look- it's a messy situation, Israel has most of their land from the UN mandate, and other parts of it was won when Israel was attacked in multiple wars. In my book, when you attack a country, be prepared to either lose or gain land. Israel is a great ally of ours, they are a true democracy, and the more they prosper, the better off the world is for it. If we placate Arab dictators who foster hate against Israel as a distraction from their own problems, we help exacerbate the real issues in the middle east.
 
The religious nuts settling in the West Bank are a thorn in Israel's side. Those settlements deep inside Palestinian territory need to be dismantled.

Jerusalem, however, should absolutely stay in Israeli hands. The city has been majority-Jewish for nearly two centuries. The east side was captured by Israel in a war the Arab side started. The only reason it was ever in Jordan hands at all was due to a war the Arab side started. There is no rationale for why Jerusalem should be divided. None.
 
Not for me to decide. But given their behavior over the decades, I sure as hell wouldn't want them as nation neighbors.

Can you imagine if the illegal alien Mexicans were suicide bombing UT, townlake, Zilker Park etc? We'd be all over that crap twice a decade rebooting Mexico.
 
Borna and others,

There is no jealousy. And to equate your family not wanting to go back to Iraq to Arabs wanting to go back their families homes, or where they used to be, doesnt make any sense because one side wants to go back and the other doesnt.

The 1967 war happened, but to say that there was no cause to it defies logic or history. Arabs were driven from their homes (you can nitpick how many), which were destroyed, to make way for Jewish settlers. I dont agree with suicide bombings or attacks against civilians, or terrorism, but it isnt one sided that the Arabs just decided to attack Israel because they hate Jews and only for that reason. Its not a nice little package like that.

As far as Israel dismantling settlements, the Israeli government has ALWAYS been for expanding into the West Bank and carving it up as much as they can. To admit that they should dismantle those settlements to quite a big statement, one I agree with, but one that makes you at odds with any goverment or Prime Minister that Israel has ever had, save maybe Rabin. You'll have to refresh my memory on if he was for expanding the settlements or not.

Jerusalem is a holy city for all three religions, so to have it under control of only one entity I dont think is an option.
 
The (impossibly intractable) problem, IMO, is that if Israel wants to deny statehood to the Palestinians, then shouldn't Israel assume responsibility for the welfare and prosperity of the Palestinian people? And on the flip side, if Israel does not want to be responsible for the teeming masses of Palestinians, then shouldn't they be entitled to have an official government representing them? It seems like Israel gets the best (least worst) of both worlds by denying the Palestinians a state.

Of course, Fatah and Hamas are like Dumb and Dumber (Deadly and Deadlier?) with AK-47s and RPGs as children's toys.
 
03 grad says it's not about jealousy. It damned well is about jealousy.

How much land do the Arabs have?
How much land do the Jews have?
Who wants to wipe the other out of existence?
 
Borna, your last post doesnt make much sense and is grossly misinformed.

We are talking about Palestinians, not "Arabs." You might as well say, "How much land do non-Jews have?"

Who wants to wipe who out of existence? Palestinians sold land to Jews who moved to Palestine legally. Palestinians were not in favor of a Jewish state in Palestine, but it was created against their will. Palestinians were driven from their homes.

We aren't talking about "Arabs" here. We are talking about the people who lived in Palestine who want to be able to move back to their families lands where their homes used to be.

It's not jealousy.
 
Israel as we know it today is not going anywhere.

Unfortunately for Jews, they dont have any other "religious" city. That sure isn't the Muslims fault... Islam embraces Judaism as a true religion of God, so Muslims therefore do not hate Jews.

Both parties, including Palestinian Christians (yes they have also bee displaced, but no one wants to talk about them) want to see Jerusalem not engulfed only by Israel.
 
The Jews built Jerusalem. Both the ancient city and the new one. They absolutely deserve to keep it as their capital.

The Palestinians were not driven from their homes. Most of them fled as a result of the war started by the Arabs in 1948. The ones who stayed became Israeli citizens.

In contrast, Jordan marched every last Jew out of the Old City in East Jerusalem and bulldozed the ancient synagogues.

I wish the Palestinian Arabs had not chosen war to settle things, but they did. And to this date they have still not promised to recognize Israel's right to exist. Too much time has passed to say that Palestinians who owned land in Israel over 60 years ago have a right to go back. I should know, since my dad's family left Iraq under very similar circumstances at the same time. Baghdad is an ancient memory to my family. The idea of going back to reclaim our old house is absurd. At this point, the issue of Palestinian "Right of Return" is being used only as a propoganda tool to try to destroy Israel from the inside. The Palestinians have land to call their own in the West Bank and Gaza, not to mention the fact that Jordan is 70% Palestinian.

2 homes for 2 peoples has been the guiding principle since 1947, and it is the right one.
 
2003?

you posted, " That sure isn't the Muslims fault... Islam embraces Judaism as a true religion of God, so Muslims therefore do not hate Jews. "

man for not hating jews muslims sure called for their death a lot, In fact isn't obliterating israel part of the Hamas Covenant?

or were you being sarcastic and I missed it
 
I was not being sarcastic Horn. There should be a differentiation between Muslims and fanatics. I was making a general statement.

That said, both sides are guilty of violence against eachother. Palestinians were driven from their homes, i.e. fled according to Borna. Their homes were destroyed. I think the fact that many are still alive today doesnt mean that too much time has passed for a right of return.

If the West Bank and Gaza were given complete control to Palestinians and they were allowed access to Jerusalem free from military checkpoints, I would accept that.

The argument that Jews dont want to go back to Iraq still doesnt hold water because they dont want to go back. If they did, I would be in favor of allowing them to.
 
2003
Well them there must be a whole heap of fanatics. In fact I can't think of any muslim leader or muslim organization that doesn't preach hatred and death to Jews.
I am pretty sure the Quran calls for death to non believers which include Jews.

If the ones calling for Israel to be obliterated and all Jews to die are only the fanatics where are the others?
 
I'll give the Palestinians one thing. At least they figured out, it seems, that diplomacy and peaceful lobbying are better than war. It took them over 60 years to figure that out, but better late than never.
 
Someone on this site said it best several years ago with regard to this subject:

If the Palestinians put down all their weapons, there would be no more war.

If the Israelis put down all their weapons, there would be no more Israel.
 
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