Solid information that recruits should consider
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HousHorn09
2,500+ Posts
coolhorn
2,500+ Posts
Things must be slow these days up north of the muddy Red Drake, for you to get in a spit fight over something said on this board.
The paper clips have all of those Big XII titles to keep them warm this winter while the coach formerly known as Big Game Bob not only tries to figure out how to win a BCS bowl game, but also how to beat his big rival south of the Red.
Yep, it might be nice for us to win a Big XII title one of these days. but I prefer the way the Horns are playing in all bowl games, including the BCS bowls. I like our chances for playing in the championship game next year, and no matter how you count 'em, UT is outproducing just about any school not named USC at sending players to the league. Now, back to that spit fight...bet I can send mine further than you can send yours, Drake.
The paper clips have all of those Big XII titles to keep them warm this winter while the coach formerly known as Big Game Bob not only tries to figure out how to win a BCS bowl game, but also how to beat his big rival south of the Red.
Yep, it might be nice for us to win a Big XII title one of these days. but I prefer the way the Horns are playing in all bowl games, including the BCS bowls. I like our chances for playing in the championship game next year, and no matter how you count 'em, UT is outproducing just about any school not named USC at sending players to the league. Now, back to that spit fight...bet I can send mine further than you can send yours, Drake.
It's really surprising to me how much NFL talent Mack has and yet it has translated into so few championships. Maybe you all are wrong about Stoops, with him having so little to work with and all.Here's some more solid information: history indicates that playing in the more competitive SEC will best prepare someone to be an NFL starter, and it's not even close.In reply to:
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
As far as the recruiting and translating to on the field success please read earlier posts on this thread.
NFL roster spots show you where the talent came from. Teams like Miami had a stockpile of talent 5-10 years ago. Now that talent has thinned out a bit. They put a bunch of guys into the NFL around 2002. The Big 12 hasn't been a power conference for very long. Give it time and I think they will put more and more talent in the NFL and it will then compare more favorably to other conferences. No doubt the SEC will probably remain #1 in that category for awhile. Look at the coaches you have in that conference.
NFL roster spots show you where the talent came from. Teams like Miami had a stockpile of talent 5-10 years ago. Now that talent has thinned out a bit. They put a bunch of guys into the NFL around 2002. The Big 12 hasn't been a power conference for very long. Give it time and I think they will put more and more talent in the NFL and it will then compare more favorably to other conferences. No doubt the SEC will probably remain #1 in that category for awhile. Look at the coaches you have in that conference.
The NFL info regarding UT vs. OU is impressive, but it is only part of what a recruit considers. As a UT graduate, I hate to admit this, but to say that Stoops is a failure at OU is laughable. When you compare OU's six Big-12 championships to UT's one (since 2000), one could argue that Stoops is making better use of his recruits within the conference. And winning conference championships is ALSO something that a recruit notices.
Astrovol,
The SEC has a presence in states with a population of roughly 57 million people, the Big 12 has a presense in states with roughly 47 million people.
If we dig deeper, let's compare two states with roughly the same population from the two conferences ,Colorado and Alabama. Colorado has roughly 4.9 million people and Alabama has 4.7 million people. From rivals list of state rankings, Colorado has a total of 3 -4* players, Alabama has 3 -5*'s and 9 -4* palyers, the difference is that Alabama has an African American population of 1.1 million and Colorada has an African American population of 161,000.
The SEC states have a total African American population of over 11 million, while the Big 12 has an African American population of under 3.5 million. The SEC has seven states at or above 1 million in African American population. Without the state of Texas, the entire population of African Americans in Big 12 states is less than a million.
The Link
The SEC has a presence in states with a population of roughly 57 million people, the Big 12 has a presense in states with roughly 47 million people.
If we dig deeper, let's compare two states with roughly the same population from the two conferences ,Colorado and Alabama. Colorado has roughly 4.9 million people and Alabama has 4.7 million people. From rivals list of state rankings, Colorado has a total of 3 -4* players, Alabama has 3 -5*'s and 9 -4* palyers, the difference is that Alabama has an African American population of 1.1 million and Colorada has an African American population of 161,000.
The SEC states have a total African American population of over 11 million, while the Big 12 has an African American population of under 3.5 million. The SEC has seven states at or above 1 million in African American population. Without the state of Texas, the entire population of African Americans in Big 12 states is less than a million.
The Link
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
The Drake, here are the facts and we'll just let them speak for themselves:
Texas:
- wins over UT 3 out of last 4 years
- Puts more players in NFL and they have stayed in the NFL longer
- Big wins in recent years over OSU, OU, USC, OU, OU, OSU
- National title
- Conference Championship
- 5 straight Bowl victories
- Won 3 out of last 3 BCS bowl games
- 10 wins in last 8 seasons
OU:
- 3 conference championships in last 4 years (6 overall under Stoops)
- last national title 9 years ago (5 more years than Texas)
- Puts less players in the NFL and more of them wash out
- Lost to Texas (main rival) 3 out of last 4 years
- Out recruited by Texas 3 out of last 4 years
- 10 or 11+ wins in only last 3 seasons
- Lost 5 straight bowl games
- Lost 5 straight BCS bowl games
- Lost big games including Florida, Texas, West Virginia, Boise St., Texas, Oregon, Texas, UCLA, TCU, USC, LSU, K-state in recent years
- on probation
There is no slide in Texas football or lack of development no leading to on the field success. That is the tired argument that I am talking about regarding your comments. Those arguments were valid from 2000-2004 but not in the last 4 years. Mack has proven that he can win the big game, beat OU, develop his players, get his players in the NFL, and win championships. He has done with much more frequently and better than Stoops has during the last 4 years.
Also feel free to read many of the other posters comments on this thread that agree with my point of view and disagree with yours.
Texas:
- wins over UT 3 out of last 4 years
- Puts more players in NFL and they have stayed in the NFL longer
- Big wins in recent years over OSU, OU, USC, OU, OU, OSU
- National title
- Conference Championship
- 5 straight Bowl victories
- Won 3 out of last 3 BCS bowl games
- 10 wins in last 8 seasons
OU:
- 3 conference championships in last 4 years (6 overall under Stoops)
- last national title 9 years ago (5 more years than Texas)
- Puts less players in the NFL and more of them wash out
- Lost to Texas (main rival) 3 out of last 4 years
- Out recruited by Texas 3 out of last 4 years
- 10 or 11+ wins in only last 3 seasons
- Lost 5 straight bowl games
- Lost 5 straight BCS bowl games
- Lost big games including Florida, Texas, West Virginia, Boise St., Texas, Oregon, Texas, UCLA, TCU, USC, LSU, K-state in recent years
- on probation
There is no slide in Texas football or lack of development no leading to on the field success. That is the tired argument that I am talking about regarding your comments. Those arguments were valid from 2000-2004 but not in the last 4 years. Mack has proven that he can win the big game, beat OU, develop his players, get his players in the NFL, and win championships. He has done with much more frequently and better than Stoops has during the last 4 years.
Also feel free to read many of the other posters comments on this thread that agree with my point of view and disagree with yours.
H
Hu_Fan
Guest
Excellent!
Hornpharm
I like how use 05 as the starting point for all your points. Well, for UT anyway. Of course, 3 of those "big wins" came courtesy of VY and the "let Vince be Vince" freelance offense. You mention our big game losses, but not much about your mulitple little game losses to likes of K State & Texas A&M. Some home losses at that. I am sure it all goes back to Colt missing 3 qtrs of football as a freshman.
More points:
6 conf championship in 9 years - no other school with more than 1. We own this conference. That is a fact. Why do you say 3 of 4? Saying 4 of 5 that much harder to swallow?
Out recruited by UT? How you figure that? OU has more guys invited to combine this year than UT. 4 potential 1st round picks that are Jrs in next years class. Is there a 1st round round pick in your upper classes? Who?
We have lost 3 straight bowl games. We beat 10-1 Oregon in 05. Not a great stat. But, again we havent been playing the 2nd thru 4th teams (I am not sure what a 6-6 Iowa team that gave you everyting you wanted was) from the Pac 10 or Big 10. When we did, we won. I think hornfans were the only one that came away impressed by your win over tOSU this year. Everybody else just stopped talking about UT being a possible #1. Shot your wad against OU and were in dogfights the rest of the year with every other 10-20 (OSU,Tech, tOSU) ranked team you played.
It is quite comical how you go back to 03 with losses for OU. But nothing about UT before 05. Of course, that would bring in 2 more losses to OU. so you don't want to do that.
I am also shocked that all the UT fans agree with you. Never would have guessed that. UT has the scoreboard over OU right now. But that is about it.
I like how use 05 as the starting point for all your points. Well, for UT anyway. Of course, 3 of those "big wins" came courtesy of VY and the "let Vince be Vince" freelance offense. You mention our big game losses, but not much about your mulitple little game losses to likes of K State & Texas A&M. Some home losses at that. I am sure it all goes back to Colt missing 3 qtrs of football as a freshman.
More points:
6 conf championship in 9 years - no other school with more than 1. We own this conference. That is a fact. Why do you say 3 of 4? Saying 4 of 5 that much harder to swallow?
Out recruited by UT? How you figure that? OU has more guys invited to combine this year than UT. 4 potential 1st round picks that are Jrs in next years class. Is there a 1st round round pick in your upper classes? Who?
We have lost 3 straight bowl games. We beat 10-1 Oregon in 05. Not a great stat. But, again we havent been playing the 2nd thru 4th teams (I am not sure what a 6-6 Iowa team that gave you everyting you wanted was) from the Pac 10 or Big 10. When we did, we won. I think hornfans were the only one that came away impressed by your win over tOSU this year. Everybody else just stopped talking about UT being a possible #1. Shot your wad against OU and were in dogfights the rest of the year with every other 10-20 (OSU,Tech, tOSU) ranked team you played.
It is quite comical how you go back to 03 with losses for OU. But nothing about UT before 05. Of course, that would bring in 2 more losses to OU. so you don't want to do that.
I am also shocked that all the UT fans agree with you. Never would have guessed that. UT has the scoreboard over OU right now. But that is about it.
coolhorn
2,500+ Posts
Drake, zero-u is very good at winning conference championships, by whatever means...that's undeniable.
However, what comes after those conference title games counts too, and lately, your team has found new and interesting ways to lose bowl games. They've lost big (USC), close (LSU), and in bizarre manner (Boise). They've even lost when a heavy favorite (WVU).
It would be nice from our standpoint if UT occasionally wins the Big XII, but if we never win it again, and continue to win our bowl games, and continue our regular season wins over your favorite team, well...that's okay too.
Enjoy your latest Big XII title, let it keep you warm through the winter months, and keep hoping that your coach can find a way, any way, to win somebody's bowl game.
However, what comes after those conference title games counts too, and lately, your team has found new and interesting ways to lose bowl games. They've lost big (USC), close (LSU), and in bizarre manner (Boise). They've even lost when a heavy favorite (WVU).
It would be nice from our standpoint if UT occasionally wins the Big XII, but if we never win it again, and continue to win our bowl games, and continue our regular season wins over your favorite team, well...that's okay too.
Enjoy your latest Big XII title, let it keep you warm through the winter months, and keep hoping that your coach can find a way, any way, to win somebody's bowl game.
Hornius Emeritus
2,500+ Posts
Like all of this stuff that happened seven years ago, or even last year, is important to recruits.
They want to see the money, Drake.
SHOW THEM THE MONEY!
They want to see the money, Drake.
SHOW THEM THE MONEY!
coolhorn
2,500+ Posts
Drake, you of all people should know you can play for the big trophy without winning the little one. Remember a conference championship game your guys played against K-State, the same team you like to reference to us? I know this is stretching it, but do you remember that K-State beat okie like a borrowed mule? Oh, and remember your next game?...I think it was the BCS championship game or something....I also seem to remember the paper clips losing that one too.
Yep. How could I forget the only CC game we ever lost? Beat us bad. Of course, that was Darren Sproles & very good K-State team on a neutral field. Didn't help that with the way the BCS was set up then and nobody in the Big 12 had even challenged us all year long, it was known beforehand that it didn't matter what OU did in the game. Recipe for disater when you tell a team it doesn't matter if you win or not, eespecially when playing someone that was a talented as K-State used to be. Yep, then we lost to by 7 to LSU in New Orleans. Being at the game, I can assure it was a neutral field.
I don't believe anymore that you could play for BCS trophy without winning your confernce. Do you? Do you care?
I don't believe anymore that you could play for BCS trophy without winning your confernce. Do you? Do you care?
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
Drake that the winning big games for UT started 2nd half of 04 (not 05 as you thought I had said). That is why I started there. For OU losing the big game has been since 03 overall (but since 05 in regards to relevant dominance vs. UT). The facts are facts b/c that is exactly what they are. They point that your thinking that UT's recruiting does not translate to on the field success is just a BCS argument. Feel free to point out your own facts b/c I have laid out my argument that shows UT with on the field success and dominance over OU since last half of 04 and 05 relatively to OU. That is the last 4 full seasons my friend. Your argument is just weak, tired, and not current. It is like you woke up from a 4 year sleep and just started posting again.
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
Sorry let me address some of your other specific questions:
Drake's effort to take the focus off the past few years -- OU's latest "body of work" argument -- is the equivalent of aggy reaching back in time to make all comparisons to their finest 10 years of cheating.
But Drake knows that the average 17 or 18 year old high school kid doesn't give a sh*t what Bud did, what $witzer did, or even what $toops did in 2000 -- they care about the past few years.
And in that span, the comparison of wins, head to head wins, bowl victories, BCS bowl victories, and National titles is no contest.
Best of all, this post will still be true a year from now.
But Drake knows that the average 17 or 18 year old high school kid doesn't give a sh*t what Bud did, what $witzer did, or even what $toops did in 2000 -- they care about the past few years.
And in that span, the comparison of wins, head to head wins, bowl victories, BCS bowl victories, and National titles is no contest.
Best of all, this post will still be true a year from now.
coolhorn
2,500+ Posts
Drake can spin this any way he wants, but UT's best selling points to recruits?
We beat our main rival more than we don't.
We win our bowl games more than we don't.
UT contends for a BCS championship more than we don't.
UT doesn't go on probation.
UT offers recruits with the talent a great chance to make it to the NFL.
Go anywhere else, and the best you can hope for is to visit Austin twice in four years. UT offers you four years in Austin. (...as opposed to four years in Norman, Stillwater, Collie Station, Lubbock, etc.)
I'd wrap that up with a line 'Bama's coaches seem to like..."Choose wisely."
We beat our main rival more than we don't.
We win our bowl games more than we don't.
UT contends for a BCS championship more than we don't.
UT doesn't go on probation.
UT offers recruits with the talent a great chance to make it to the NFL.
Go anywhere else, and the best you can hope for is to visit Austin twice in four years. UT offers you four years in Austin. (...as opposed to four years in Norman, Stillwater, Collie Station, Lubbock, etc.)
I'd wrap that up with a line 'Bama's coaches seem to like..."Choose wisely."
TaylorTRoom
1,000+ Posts
Drake, has Stoops ever had a season as good as Texas had in 2005? Undefeated MNC, with wins over two teams that finished in the Top 5? No, he hasn't.
Has he ever had a season as good as UT had in 2008? Only one loss, and wins over a tem that finished top5 and another that finished top 10? Yes, once, in 2000.
As you glory in OU's wins over Oregon (sans Clemens) and cincinnati, I ask you- what have been OU's best wins the last few years? When Stoops goes up against the era's greatest coaches- Carroll, Saban, Meyer, and the lot- what are the great wins? I know he's 60% against Brown, but you have to go back to 2004 to find a Stoops win over a top Texas team.
Keep talking conference titles. You need to understand that Lonhorn fans are giving Mack a pass on that for 2008- OU didn't win it as much as politick it.
Has he ever had a season as good as UT had in 2008? Only one loss, and wins over a tem that finished top5 and another that finished top 10? Yes, once, in 2000.
As you glory in OU's wins over Oregon (sans Clemens) and cincinnati, I ask you- what have been OU's best wins the last few years? When Stoops goes up against the era's greatest coaches- Carroll, Saban, Meyer, and the lot- what are the great wins? I know he's 60% against Brown, but you have to go back to 2004 to find a Stoops win over a top Texas team.
Keep talking conference titles. You need to understand that Lonhorn fans are giving Mack a pass on that for 2008- OU didn't win it as much as politick it.
CJ Ah You plays for the Bills, Eric Basey plays for the Rams, Joe Jon Finley plays for the 49ers. Donte Nicholson plays for the Buc, Travis Wilson plays for the Cowboys, Marcus Walker plays for the Vikings.
It would help if the original poster actually had the correct information.
It would help if the original poster actually had the correct information.
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