So now knives kill
- Thread starter AustinBat
- Start date
According to the FBI gun background checks are working. Since 1998 they have processed over 11 million checks and have denied about 10% or over a million purchases. As others have said and, I'm summing it up, everyone can't be stopped. I believe better enforcement of the laws we currently have and stop trying to make crazy people normal because its the nice thing to do will work much better than continuing to politicize the issue.
FBI
FBI
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
CanaTigers
2,500+ Posts
Cana is correct.
ANY dealer at a gun show is required and does do background checks.
Private sales between private individuals that take place at a gun show do not require background checks. The fact that the sale happened during a gun show is irrelevant.
There is no gun show loophole.
I applaud the good citizens of the state of NY for refusing , about 97% the last I saw, the new law requiring registration.
WHY would anyone want the government to have a list?
Learn from history.
ANY dealer at a gun show is required and does do background checks.
Private sales between private individuals that take place at a gun show do not require background checks. The fact that the sale happened during a gun show is irrelevant.
There is no gun show loophole.
I applaud the good citizens of the state of NY for refusing , about 97% the last I saw, the new law requiring registration.
WHY would anyone want the government to have a list?
Learn from history.
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
I have never sold a gun. I still have my pellet gun from when I was a little kid in addition to three "real" guns acquired over the years.
I am not sure how my dad sells his guns. I think he might sell them on consignment at a dealer, but I don't know.
The gun show loophole is the private sale of guns at least as I understand it. I have never been to a gun show.
The two guns that I purchased myself were both bought from a dealer. My shotgun was a gift although since it was a brand new Ruger over and under 12 gauge shotgun I think my dad must have bought it from a dealer.
I am not sure how my dad sells his guns. I think he might sell them on consignment at a dealer, but I don't know.
The gun show loophole is the private sale of guns at least as I understand it. I have never been to a gun show.
The two guns that I purchased myself were both bought from a dealer. My shotgun was a gift although since it was a brand new Ruger over and under 12 gauge shotgun I think my dad must have bought it from a dealer.
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
You guys are so ridiculous.
You knew all along exactly what was being referenced as the gun show loophole and yet you have to play it cute.
Is it unreasonable to do a background check on all sales at gun shows?
This is not that tough of a question.
Is it unreasonable to require a background check on all private sales?
Can we change the definition of private sale back to the way it was between 1968 and 1986?
Is a national database unreasonable?
I do not get why these things are such a big deal.
You knew all along exactly what was being referenced as the gun show loophole and yet you have to play it cute.
Is it unreasonable to do a background check on all sales at gun shows?
This is not that tough of a question.
Is it unreasonable to require a background check on all private sales?
Can we change the definition of private sale back to the way it was between 1968 and 1986?
Is a national database unreasonable?
I do not get why these things are such a big deal.
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
Are you really this obtuse?
We are not asking about what is "legal" or "illegal" right now. We are talking about the gun show loophole that allows "private" sales of guns at gun shows without a background check. I put quotes around private because the definition was altered in 1986 and allows a person to sell a very significant number of guns "privately". A loophole means something is presently "legal" but probably should not be.
So for the third time - should these sales be legal or can we close this loophole by requiring a background check on all sales at gun shows?
These questions really are not very tricky.
We are not asking about what is "legal" or "illegal" right now. We are talking about the gun show loophole that allows "private" sales of guns at gun shows without a background check. I put quotes around private because the definition was altered in 1986 and allows a person to sell a very significant number of guns "privately". A loophole means something is presently "legal" but probably should not be.
So for the third time - should these sales be legal or can we close this loophole by requiring a background check on all sales at gun shows?
These questions really are not very tricky.
accuratehorn
10,000+ Posts
It should be legal to buy any kind of weapon at any time by anybody. It's the American way.
Those 30,000 deaths each year are just the cost of doing gun business. It's no big deal.
Those 30,000 deaths each year are just the cost of doing gun business. It's no big deal.
paso
' We are talking about what you call " the gun show loophole" that allows "private" sales of guns at gun shows without a background check.
Would the sale be illegal in someone's home? Or a parking lot?
NO it would not and you know it
so what is different, from a legal stand point about the physical location?
Nothing
and you know it
why do you always feel the need to insult? It appears, as Dalhorn pointed put that you resort to insults when you know you have nothing else
' We are talking about what you call " the gun show loophole" that allows "private" sales of guns at gun shows without a background check.
Would the sale be illegal in someone's home? Or a parking lot?
NO it would not and you know it
so what is different, from a legal stand point about the physical location?
Nothing
and you know it
why do you always feel the need to insult? It appears, as Dalhorn pointed put that you resort to insults when you know you have nothing else
CanaTigers
2,500+ Posts
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
The person who mentioned the gun show loophole was Seattle Husker not me.
You knew exactly what he meant and yet could not just address this point. You try to claim that there is no loophole which is either sophistry or stupidity.
I have a very low tolerance for people who are either stupid or intentionally waste my time. I think you are the later but might be the former.
It was an easy point and you could either agree it should be closed or say it should not be.
Period.
Why act like an *** about it?
_________________________________________
And you still have not answered any of my questions. None.
You think I should "respect" you when you cannot answer a single question?
Screw this.
Cana has answered my questions and he has a very reasonable position. The no buy list sounds like an excellent "compromise".
You knew exactly what he meant and yet could not just address this point. You try to claim that there is no loophole which is either sophistry or stupidity.
I have a very low tolerance for people who are either stupid or intentionally waste my time. I think you are the later but might be the former.
It was an easy point and you could either agree it should be closed or say it should not be.
Period.
Why act like an *** about it?
_________________________________________
And you still have not answered any of my questions. None.
You think I should "respect" you when you cannot answer a single question?
Screw this.
Cana has answered my questions and he has a very reasonable position. The no buy list sounds like an excellent "compromise".
Insult all you want paso as that is your fall back mode
There is no gun show loophole
well unless you think there is a 'parking lot or private home or loophole.
Why are your panties in such a wad over location?
A private seller is a private seller no matter where that private seller chooses to legally sell their gun.
Are you upset at the legal policy regarding private sellers.?
Paso
do you want to change the law to require private gun sellers to do background checks?
take a deep breath.
There is no gun show loophole
well unless you think there is a 'parking lot or private home or loophole.
Why are your panties in such a wad over location?
A private seller is a private seller no matter where that private seller chooses to legally sell their gun.
Are you upset at the legal policy regarding private sellers.?
Paso
do you want to change the law to require private gun sellers to do background checks?
take a deep breath.
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
You are so cute and you never answer a question. You do not even know the definition of a loophole.
Why should I waste my time here?
I rarely come on this forum because it is such a pathetic Faux News echo chamber and the few times that I do it is mainly just to see how stupid you guys are.
Gun nuts are just completely nuts.
All sales of guns should have a background check. This is particularly true at gun shows where "private" sales are often done on a volume basis. The definition was altered in such a way in 1986 to where many "private sales" are anything but. This loophole should be closed. I would even compromise for returning the definition to its original form. Prior to 1986, a private seller could only sell four a year. This would be acceptable to me.
But thanks to the NRA and most of its brain-dead sycophants this will not happen until we lose a few thousand more kids. You should be proud and happy.
Like you guys care ...
Why should I waste my time here?
I rarely come on this forum because it is such a pathetic Faux News echo chamber and the few times that I do it is mainly just to see how stupid you guys are.
Gun nuts are just completely nuts.
All sales of guns should have a background check. This is particularly true at gun shows where "private" sales are often done on a volume basis. The definition was altered in such a way in 1986 to where many "private sales" are anything but. This loophole should be closed. I would even compromise for returning the definition to its original form. Prior to 1986, a private seller could only sell four a year. This would be acceptable to me.
But thanks to the NRA and most of its brain-dead sycophants this will not happen until we lose a few thousand more kids. You should be proud and happy.
Like you guys care ...
if your question is should what You call a gun show loophole be closed with yet another law the answer is no.
the physical location where a private seller chooses to sell a gun is the private seller's business.
It is easy to see that people have become outraged with " the gun show loophole" thanks to BO many other pols and the media.
it seems to be a catchy phrase .
I would not have thought you, paso, would be one of those.
If you want to change the laws to cover background checks of buyersfromy private sellers, no matter the physical location where the sale occurs that is a different topic.
the physical location where a private seller chooses to sell a gun is the private seller's business.
It is easy to see that people have become outraged with " the gun show loophole" thanks to BO many other pols and the media.
it seems to be a catchy phrase .
I would not have thought you, paso, would be one of those.
If you want to change the laws to cover background checks of buyersfromy private sellers, no matter the physical location where the sale occurs that is a different topic.
How about this. Make it so that gun show sales are by definition not private because they occur in a public space.
If the government was run by Angels, Id say register and regulate everything, but its not. Its run by greedy scumbags bought by special interest groups, and if they can register every gun owner, then can eventually ban every gun and know exactly who as what. This has happened before.
People arent batshit crazy. Its called history. And Im sick of people thinking that "we're the USA" and this kind of thing would never happen here. Bush and Clinton look all chummy and innocent sitting in Jerrah's box watching the basketball game and eating hotdogs, but those guys aint your neighbor down the street whose just trying to raise a family and goes to church every sunday.
The illusion Americans have that we are somehow better or more pious because we wrap ourselves with the flag and have white skin and suits, and not brown skin, turbans and robes, is pathetic.
Fine, close the gun show loophole, but hell no to gun registration. The government doesnt need to know what you or I own in our basement. Thats not their job. They are there to use our tax dollars to pave roads.
If the government was run by Angels, Id say register and regulate everything, but its not. Its run by greedy scumbags bought by special interest groups, and if they can register every gun owner, then can eventually ban every gun and know exactly who as what. This has happened before.
People arent batshit crazy. Its called history. And Im sick of people thinking that "we're the USA" and this kind of thing would never happen here. Bush and Clinton look all chummy and innocent sitting in Jerrah's box watching the basketball game and eating hotdogs, but those guys aint your neighbor down the street whose just trying to raise a family and goes to church every sunday.
The illusion Americans have that we are somehow better or more pious because we wrap ourselves with the flag and have white skin and suits, and not brown skin, turbans and robes, is pathetic.
Fine, close the gun show loophole, but hell no to gun registration. The government doesnt need to know what you or I own in our basement. Thats not their job. They are there to use our tax dollars to pave roads.
AustinBat
2,500+ Posts
So I started this with tongue firmly in cheek, and I'll weigh in again. I don't own a gun, have never shot a gun (Ok, I must confess I shot some kind of gun at a target last year ar age 63) and would never have allowed a gun in my home if children were there, and there are none now. So I don't think I could be considered a "gun nut." However, most criminals don't get their guns at a gun show. In the mass shootings, the shooter had a legal gun. The common factors were either severe mental illness or a religious component, such as Major Hassan at Ft. Hood or the muslim kids who placed the bombs at the Boston Marathon and then killed a police officer.
We live in a society that does not know how to or refuses to deal with mental issues. We have thousands (or maybe millions) of mentally ill people, but how do you differentiate between people who might hurt themselves and people who might hurt others? If one wrong decision is made we have first graders and teachers killed. And as a country we refuse to acknowledge that a large number of Muslims world wide hate the US.
I don't think there are clear cut answers, and therein lies the problem. But I do think that people who want to do harm will be able to get guns, regardless of how many checks you have.
We live in a society that does not know how to or refuses to deal with mental issues. We have thousands (or maybe millions) of mentally ill people, but how do you differentiate between people who might hurt themselves and people who might hurt others? If one wrong decision is made we have first graders and teachers killed. And as a country we refuse to acknowledge that a large number of Muslims world wide hate the US.
I don't think there are clear cut answers, and therein lies the problem. But I do think that people who want to do harm will be able to get guns, regardless of how many checks you have.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Should we focus more on mental health issues? Absolutely. Should that preclude us from trying to restrain their access to guns (i.e. universal background checks)?
The lesson learned from this incident is a crazy person with a knife is much less lethal than a crazy person with a semi-automatic gun. Can the gun supporters at least acknowledge that?
The lesson learned from this incident is a crazy person with a knife is much less lethal than a crazy person with a semi-automatic gun. Can the gun supporters at least acknowledge that?
CanaTigers
2,500+ Posts
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