Running Backs

[ProdigalHorn]

Even if all of our guys were healthy, Ingram is our #1 dB, and he clearly is not very good.

I love how one bad game means we're ready to pitch a guy. Elingher played poorly against Maryland last year, "so clearly he's not very good." Our entire defensive backfield played poorly, so we should probably bench all them, too.

He had a bad game against a really talented defense.

And while I'm at it, am I the only one who thinks Roschon may have a legitimate future as a RB?

You are not. I said after week 1 that I wasn't sure the QB room was ever getting Roschon back, and I feel more disposed to that after watching him. I think it was Herbie that said that it seemed as if RJ ran with more urgency than Ingram did, and I think that's accurate. He was concerned first and foremost with getting to the hole, and it showed. In addition, he showed a really strong inclination to fall forward, to lunge forward, to get the extra two yards at the end of the play.

He doesn't have the upside that KI has, but he's a solid runner and could certainly be more than that.

BTW, how many who are criticizing the short yardage offense would have been praising our toughness if we'd pounded it in on fourth down? The reality is that strategy worked just fine all last year - and it worked again in the third quarter. If Sam turns his back and drives like he did in the third quarter, his knee doesn't go down, and he scores, and we're probably all a lot happier today.

I have no issue with wanting to mix in a fade and all that, but we showed all last year that we can pound the ball in given four tries, and if we executed it properly, that's exactly what would have happened this time around as well.

 

[wadster]

Texas couldn't score because of poor play calling, and a drop, not because of the lack of RB's.

And I guess you could see into the future and see DB was going to have a stroke, JW was going to tear an abductor and DY was going to have a bad ankle sprain. Sometimes Murphy's Law just hits. I don't know why some people can't understand that.

Seriously, you're going to say we couldn't score when we score 38 on LSU. Seriously?? RB is a problem and will be until 2nd half of this year. But we scored plenty. 38 should have won the game.

 

[Run Pincher]

Seriously, you're going to say we couldn't score when we score 38 on LSU. Seriously?? RB is a problem and will be until 2nd half of this year. But we scored plenty. 38 should have won the game.

So you interpret my point of poor play calling on the goal line and failure to score "in that situation" as failure to score the whole game? Some of the goobers from the glorified HS on Baton Rouge have better reading comprehension than that. And I never stated that RB isn't a problem, but you need to let us know what the coaches could've done about it other than offering Sanders or Cain more $ than the $EC.

 

[dukesteer]

I didn’t particularly like the play calling early:

First Drive - We’re moving the ball at will but try a home run pass. Why? We were dominating the LOS and I believe that if we had kept if methodical, we would have scored on the first possession.

No problem with the 4th down pass to KI. Those things happen but it was a great call. And, we got the ball back almost immediately so basically there was no consequence.

LSU’s Goal Line Stand - Those calls I didn’t like. I think it’s unrealistic to believe that we can exert our will against a strong D. With 1st and goal at the 4, I mix it up a bit. And I would have preferred an RPO on 4th. It didn’t didn’t feel like we were going to penetrate and they were certainly ready for us. Also, did we have an extra blocker on that side? I need to watch the film but I don’t think so. As I recall, last year we used an H back or TE for extra help on those types of plays.

 

[Walking Boss]

Going into the game and during it I thought that Ingram’s running style would be ineffective against a physical d-line and fast defense because he seems to hesitate after getting the ball looking for a hole or crease. He is not a downhill runner. Ingram was largely ineffective against Georgia for the same reason. The o-line played pretty well, but they were never going to be able to hold their blocks for as long as Ingram takes and lsu backers and safeties are to fast. Roschon Johnson is a down hill runner and just hits the first crease and tries to break out the other end. I thought he would be more effective in this game for that reason and he was just as tre Watson was more effective against Georgia. Ingram will have much better games going forward as the o-line will be able to sustain blocks against most of the remaining teams on the schedule.

 

[dukesteer]

Going into the game and during it I thought that Ingram’s running style would be ineffective against a physical d-line and fast defense because he seems to hesitate after getting the ball looking for a hole or crease. He is not a downhill runner. Ingram was largely ineffective against Georgia for the same reason. The o-line played pretty well, but they were never going to be able to hold their blocks for as long as Ingram takes and lsu backers and safeties are to fast. Roschon Johnson is a down hill runner and just hits the first crease and tries to break out the other end. I thought he would be more effective in this game for that reason and he was just as tre Watson was more effective against Georgia. Ingram will have much better games going forward as the o-line will be able to sustain blocks against most of the remaining teams on the schedule.

WB, one of Herman’s observations about KI was that he doesn’t have enough patience. He said just that during the fall camp.

My gripe is that he lacks the vision needed to be a great back. He’s better than (say) Porter but he doesn’t seem to see and feel the holes. Instead too often he runs up the backs of the OL. I agree that RJ seems to be more instinctive.

We haven’t had a breakaway run in at least 16 games. I think that has much more to do with the RB talent than it does with the OL. I predict that Roschon will have such a run in the next two weeks, perhaps both weeks.

 

[Walking Boss]

WB, one of Herman’s observations about KI was that he doesn’t have enough patience. He said just that during the fall camp.

My gripe is that he lacks the vision needed to be a great back. He’s better than (say) Porter but he doesn’t seem to see and feel the holes. Instead too often he runs up the backs of the OL. I agree that RJ seems to be more instinctive.

We haven’t had a breakaway run in at least 16 games. I think that has much more to do with the RB talent than it does with the OL. I predict that Roschon will have such a run in the next two weeks, perhaps both weeks.

Maybe his hesitation is he doesn’t see/feel the holes unless they are gaping i.e. he doesn’t see a crease which against an lsu is likely all there will be. Just seems to me he wants to make a jump cut/cutback even when not there or not warranted. Roschon hit the crease with a forward lean and although I don’t think he is bigger than Ingram he runs with more power.

 

[SabreHorn]

8 plays inside the 2...yes, we lost because of RB play.

BFS! We failed to score because of idiotic, dumbass play calling. Our best RB is a LB playing QB. Our best OL is our center. Put Sam under center, fall forward on first touch. It ain't rocket science.

After we beat Arkansas in 1977, Lou Holtz said, "They always fell forward. We never once knocked them backward. That RB is 6', he falls forward three times, means he only has to gain four yards to move the chains."

We needed two yards, so we snap the ball 5-6 yards deep?

 

[mchammer]

And while I'm at it, am I the only one who thinks Roschon may have a legitimate future as a RB?

Texags predicted this weeks ago. Said he was not accurate enough to be QB. It came off initially as some sort of shot against Texas, but per usual, likely to backfire on Aggy

 

[MajesticII]

Going into the game and during it I thought that Ingram’s running style would be ineffective against a physical d-line and fast defense because he seems to hesitate after getting the ball looking for a hole or crease. He is not a downhill runner. Ingram was largely ineffective against Georgia for the same reason. The o-line played pretty well, but they were never going to be able to hold their blocks for as long as Ingram takes and lsu backers and safeties are to fast. Roschon Johnson is a down hill runner and just hits the first crease and tries to break out the other end. I thought he would be more effective in this game for that reason and he was just as tre Watson was more effective against Georgia. Ingram will have much better games going forward as the o-line will be able to sustain blocks against most of the remaining teams on the schedule.

I think we coach them to hesitate after getting the ball and to look for a hole or crease. Seems every back that has spent much time as a running back here does that. Notice Watson was a transfer and had that downhill style. R. Johnson has only been working at RB for two weeks and hasn't been coached to hesitate just yet... Give him a few more weeks or months in the system. Who in Beck's offense hasn't been coached to hesitate after going through Spring camp ? Even Ehlinger hesitates big time on QB keepers now. Thats ok though the OL should hold their blocks for 5 extra seconds so the back can decide where to run.... Its all good.

 

[horninchicago]

I think we coach them to hesitate after getting the ball and to look for a hole or crease. Seems every back that has spent much time as a running back here does that. Notice Watson was a transfer and had that downhill style. R. Johnson has only been working at RB for two weeks and hasn't been coached to hesitate just yet... Give him a few more weeks or months in the system. Who in Beck's offense hasn't been coached to hesitate after going through Spring camp ? Even Ehlinger hesitates big time on QB keepers now. Thats ok though the OL should hold their blocks for 5 extra seconds so the back can decide where to run.... Its all good.

Herman said as much in his Monday presser after La Tech, I believe it was.

Said Ingram hits the hole too quickly. Needs to be more patient to allow holes to open up, or something to that effect.

 

[MajesticII]

Herman said as much in his Monday presser after La Tech, I believe it was.

Said Ingram hots the hole too quickly. Needs to be more patient to allow holes to open up, or something to that effect.

Show me a coach that tells a back he hits a hole too quick, and I'll show you a dumb***. Even on counter plays a back should hit it quick.... The jab step for the misdirection should be pause enough for a lineman to pull and get where he needs to get. If not , you need a quicker lineman. I used to tell my backs to put his Riddell in the OL's back if he isn't out of the way and there is no crease.....Great backs can see the cut back crease, hit the seam, or have vision to bounce going full speed.

 

[horninchicago]

Show me a coach that tells a back he hits a hole too quick, and I'll show you a dumb***. Even on counter plays a back should hit it quick.... The jab step for the misdirection should be pause enough for a lineman to pull and get where he needs to get. If not , you need a quicker lineman. I used to tell my backs to put his Riddell in the OL's back if he isn't out of the way and there is no crease.....Great backs can see the cut back crease, hit the seam, or have vision to bounce going full speed.

Yes, just relaying what Herman said.

 

[MajesticII]

Yes, just relaying what Herman said.

No wonder our running game sucks and we get stuffed in goal line situations....Don't expect to beat too many really good teams for the foreseeable future unless we can recruit All Pro superstars who are twice as good as the opponent.

 

[horninchicago]

No wonder our running game sucks and we get stuffed in goal line situations....Don't expect to beat too many really good teams for the foreseeable future unless we can recruit All Pro superstars who are twice as good as the opponent.

Okay.

 

[SabreHorn]

Come on, majestic, everyone knows that slow developing running plays are best against big slow DL. Gives them time to read, react, and make the wrong choice.

 

[Chop]

Something we ran just a few times last night that seemed to work pretty well was the design QB sweep led by the backside OT and OG on the pull.

Need some plays like this for Roschon.

 

[Michael Green]

We play one RB at a time. We play between six and 8 DBs at a time. Simple math says if we have six RBs, we ought to have 48 DBs. We should probably get on that for the next recruiting class...

We do NOT play between six and 8 DBs. Lol. Safeties, LBs, OL...that is just plain silly.

 

[SabreHorn]

We do NOT play between six and 8 DBs

Sorry you don't get to watch many of our games. Hopefully you'll be able to attend one later in the season.

Yes, we have a nickel package, but also one that features 6 & 8 DBs at the same time. IF we ever get any fast LBs, we may scrap the one with eight.

 

[Michael Green]

I love how one bad game means we're ready to pitch a guy. Elingher played poorly against Maryland last year, "so clearly he's not very good." Our entire defensive backfield played poorly, so we should probably bench all them, too.

He had a bad game against a really talented defense.



You are not. I said after week 1 that I wasn't sure the QB room was ever getting Roschon back, and I feel more disposed to that after watching him. I think it was Herbie that said that it seemed as if RJ ran with more urgency than Ingram did, and I think that's accurate. He was concerned first and foremost with getting to the hole, and it showed. In addition, he showed a really strong inclination to fall forward, to lunge forward, to get the extra two yards at the end of the play.

He doesn't have the upside that KI has, but he's a solid runner and could certainly be more than that.

BTW, how many who are criticizing the short yardage offense would have been praising our toughness if we'd pounded it in on fourth down? The reality is that strategy worked just fine all last year - and it worked again in the third quarter. If Sam turns his back and drives like he did in the third quarter, his knee doesn't go down, and he scores, and we're probably all a lot happier today.

I have no issue with wanting to mix in a fade and all that, but we showed all last year that we can pound the ball in given four tries, and if we executed it properly, that's exactly what would have happened this time around as well.

I never said we should “pitch a guy”...I was making the point that it is ridiculous that we are in this position. I also do believe a program like Texas should have an “elite” RB, which Ingram clearly isn’t.

One more thing...we didn’t execute on 8 plays inside the 4....not 4 plays. That is a direct result of either poor coaching or bad execution. Or a little of both.

 

[Michael Green]

Sorry you don't get to watch many of our games. Hopefully you'll be able to attend one later in the season.

Yes, we have a nickel package, but also one that features 6 & 8 DBs at the same time. IF we ever get any fast LBs, we may scrap the one with eight.

That is very uncommon. So you are saying we don’t have any safeties or LBs on the field? Come on dude. Might happen once a game. Don’t need 25 DBs on the roster to do that. That is a weak argument. We do need more than 4 RBs, especially when you take into account the odds of injury. Much higher for RBs.

 

[SabreHorn]

I'm sorry, not being a student of the game, I didn't realize that safeties are no longer considered DBs. So when someone asks me what position I played, I can say DB AND safety?

I addressed one thing you said no one does, play 8 DBs at a time, and YES they do. Don't change the subject to defend your ignorance.

DON'T CALL ME "DUDE", DUMBASS!

 

[Michael Green]

I'm sorry, not being a student of the game, I didn't realize that safeties are no longer considered DBs. So when someone asks me what position I played, I can say DB AND safety?

I addressed one thing you said no one does, play 8 DBs at a time, and YES they do. Don't change the subject to defend your ignorance.

DON'T CALL ME "DUDE", DUMBASS!

 

[ProdigalHorn]

We do NOT play between six and 8 DBs. Lol. Safeties, LBs, OL...that is just plain silly.

\

Aaaaand with that, the argument ended.

 

[Statalyzer]

Those calls I didn’t like. I think it’s unrealistic to believe that we can exert our will against a strong D. With 1st and goal at the 4, I mix it up a bit. And I would have preferred an RPO on 4th. It didn’t didn’t feel like we were going to penetrate and they were certainly ready for us. Also, did we have an extra blocker on that side? I need to watch the film but I don’t think so. As I recall, last year we used an H back or TE for extra help on those types of plays.

We definitely miss Andrew Beck's lead blocking. On those QB sweeps last year he'd take out the nearest LB pretty regularly, often leaving one or two poor 180 lb DBs trying to stop Ehlinger-with-momentum head on.