Release The Memo

[Garmel]

TBH, i fully expected HRC to be charged with a misdemeanor like Patraeus. What the FBI lacked was an intent to misuse classified information. They had Patraeus on tape telling his biographer he was giving her his classified notes and admitting he shouldn't. No smoking gun for HRC like that.

She should have gotten gross negligence for the e-mails.. Setting up an illegal server should have had her thrown under the jail.

 

[mchammer]

Lol. Lots of f-bombs. Pretty unusual for you.

A fast riser? Sorta depends on what you mean. He started out as an associate with a big corporate law firm. It's the kind of job in which you make a good salary but work terrible hours and do pretty uninteresting work - basically the stuff that partners and more senior associates don't want to do. He moved from that to the US Attorney's Office. I'm sure he got paid less but probably had a lot more free time and enjoyed the work much more. Once there, I'm sure he did rise fast. He was pretty good at what he did. However, he didn't really become a political actor until Bush made him a full US Attorney (meaning he had a presidential appointment and Senate confirmation), and by then he had been with DoJ for a good 12 years or longer. After a few years, he went back to the private sector but with a much more desirable gig that pair him a fortune. Of course, after making more money than he'll ever spend, he became FBI director. So I'd call him a fast riser once he be scored his first political gig, but he did put in his time before that.

When Comey got fired, I got in touch with my FBI buddy. He's not a political player, but he's a senior official - worked directly for Comey and knows him personally. His take was interesting. He was a big Comey fan - thought he was a good director, a good leader, and thought he tried to do the right thing without regard to political affiliation. Interestingly, he hated how Comey got fired more than the fact that he got fired. (He also did not think Trump fired him to stop the Russia investigation.) Apparently, Comey learned of his firing while making a speech to FBI employees when the news of it flashed on a monitor behind him. Yep, the people he was speaking to got the news before he did.

The reality is that he's probably right when it comes to day-to-day work. Comey probably was good leader and probably did a good job when we the agency was dealing with rank-and-file bad guys. However, once he had to deal with a major political player with the power to ruin him, he didn't have the balls to stand up to her.

My position is that he should have done the right thing. However, he shouldn't have been in that position. The decision to prosecute somebody lies with the prosecutor, not his or her investigators or law enforcement officers. Loretta Lynch and her subordinates should have made the decision and taken the heat for it. Putting it on Comey was the height of "chicken shittiness." It was obvious to anybody with a brain that they were making their decisions based on their political agenda, which is why the case should have gone to a special prosecutor. Should have been a slam dunk, no-brainer decision.

Probably the wine talking. Just tired of elites not being made of sterner stuff. If they can’t make these decisions, why have them around?

 

[mchammer]

I’ll forever be endeared to DJT - he broke the Clinton cabal and all those around Bill and Hillary who they corrupted. Comey could have been the person to save the Republic. Instead he is collateral damage instead of charting his own destiny. Now, he is like the old man on the street mumbling crazy ****.

 

[ProdigalHorn]

Nevermind the fact that now it's looking more and more like Bloomenthal was basically funneling intel from the state department to Steel, who then put it in the dossier, leaked it to the press and FBI, and used that in large part to get a FISA warrant on an American citizen who happened to work for the opposition candidate. The lack of curiosity about a string of events like that is astounding.

 

[OUBubba]

Nevermind the fact that now it's looking more and more like Bloomenthal was basically funneling intel from the state department to Steel, who then put it in the dossier, leaked it to the press and FBI, and used that in large part to get a FISA warrant on an American citizen who happened to work for the opposition candidate. The lack of curiosity about a string of events like that is astounding.

A FISA warrant on a guy who openly admitted to being an adviser to the Kremlin. Seems like a significant data point.

 

[mchammer]

A FISA warrant on a guy who openly admitted to being an adviser to the Kremlin. Seems like a significant data point.

So was Podesta. What’s your point?

 

[OUBubba]

So was Podesta. What’s your point?

A. Then investigate him. I don't think Mueller will ignore those things if he comes across them.
B. Have they cleared him of that child sex traffic ring that was run from the basement of the pizza place that, you know, had no basement?

 

[mchammer]

A. You have no point. Lots of people do business with Russia. Why single out Page? Where’s the evidence?
B. Deflection

 

[Garmel]

B. Have they cleared him of that child sex traffic ring that was run from the basement of the pizza place that, you know, had no basement?

You keep going on about pizzagate all the time when very few conservatives believed in it. However, nearly all of you libs buy into "Russia, Russia, Russia".

 

[Mr. Deez]

Is it possible that Comey believed that HRC shouldn't be proecuted thus thought by making the decision himself he was keeping politics out of it?

If he actually thought HRC hadn't broken the law, then he wouldn't have had to make up things in the statute that weren't there. Comey isn't dumb. He knew what the statute said, and he knew that it didn't require the prosecutor to prove what he suggested it required the government to prove. FWIW, even my FBI buddy who adores Comey doesn't think HRC didn't break the law.

Do I think Comey wanted to keep politics out of it? I think he wanted to keep himself and his agency out of politics, but when the accused is a political official, it's not avoidable. After all, Archibald Cox and Leon Jaworski could have decided not to pursue Nixon, and it would have minimized the political impact of their work. But would that have been the right thing to do? Obviously not.

If we're a nation of laws and if no one is above the law, then prosecutors should charge public officials with crimes if the evidence supports doing so. If they won't do that for any reason, then the rule of law is not supreme. Public officials are supreme. I try not to be a partisan hack, but every element of the offense was supported by solid evidence. Does that mean she should have gone to jail? That's for a jury to decide, but the case should have been brought. And the fact that bringing charges would have had political implications should have been wholly irrelevant to the decision.

Imagine the furor if Loretta Lynch made the same decision/announcements that Comey did. She ws clearly more in the pocket of the Clintons.

Of course, but nobody believes that Comey really made the call, because he didn't have the power to make the call. Lynch did. Furthermore, nobody believes that Lynch was going to prosecute HRC no matter what Comey said or did. You'll notice that there's a flaw in my comparison of Comey with Cox and Jaworski. Comey was the FBI Director - basically a very high-powered cop. Cox and Jaworski were special prosecutors. That's what should have been done in the the Clinton matter. This should never have been put on Comey. A special prosecutor should have been on the case months before Comey made his statement.

Despite the rights attempts to ruin Comey, i think he was a man with integrity doing what he thought best for the country. Did he make missteps, sure but that doesn't detract from his integrity.

I agree that he was trying to do the right thing by essentially splitting the baby - publicly tear HRC a new one but let her slide (or more accurately to cover for Lynch, who was actually letting her slide), but his desire to do the right thing was tempered by being in a crappy situation that had no good outcomes for him and yes, a desire to protect himself regardless of subsequent events - a strategy that ultimately backfired on him.

The conservative media attacks on Mueller and Comey, blatantly to protect Trump, are the saddest outcome of our partisan media coverage.

It is sad, but the demonization of prosecutors (or in the case of Comey non-prosecutors whom we pretend to be prosecutors) for political gain is now considered fair game. Ask Kenneth Starr, who got it much worse. Most of these guys are decent people trying to do their jobs. I do think Comey did the wrong thing, but like I said earlier, he was put in a position that he should never have been put in.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Is it possible that Comey believed that HRC shouldn't be proecuted thus thought by making the decision himself he was keeping politics out of it?

It is not his call to make, no matter what he believed. He is the investigator, not the prosecutor.

 

[militaryhorn]

That much evidence? Quote me the number of individual email that had classified markings and the level of classification. Break it down for each level of security clearance. Let's talk facts, not "she deleted 33k email so we'll assume it was top secret".

As a former 74C in the Army, I'm well versed in the rules for handling government documents. My job required a Top Secret clearance.

TBH, i fully expected HRC to be charged with a misdemeanor like Patraeus. What the FBI lacked was an intent to misuse classified information. They had Patraeus on tape telling his biographer he was giving her his classified notes and admitting he shouldn't. No smoking gun for HRC like that.

SH, you know as well as anybody with your security clearance background that ANY classified material whether it is CONFIDENTIAL or TOP SECRET would never be passed around on any unsecured network regardless of the intent of the sender.

Now that I know your military background in classified material handling, let me ask you this question. Would you have ever thought to send any classified material on the normal email networks, i.e. NIPRnet?

Also, the US Code for handling classified material does not use the word intent anywhere in its language. It doesn't matter what the intentions are of the sender, it only matters what material was compromised.

No one should get a pass when it comes to our nation's secrets, if enough evidence can prove gross negligence of the sender.

 

[Monahorns]

I'm just glad we can all now see that the supposedly nonpartisan, nonpolitical parts of our government are in fact partisan, political, and personal. Not that we can't trust them but we shouldn't trust them blindly. The US government needs to be held to account. They're corrupt and act for their benefit not the people's. I am also speaking of the current legislator.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Also, the US Code for handling classified material does not use the word intent anywhere in its language.

And of course, if you buy Comey's analysis, it requires an intent to break the law. In all my years of studying and practicing law, I've never read or heard of a law that requires an intent to break the law. Even laws that require intent require an intent to perform the act not to break the law. That's why "I didn't know it was illegal to steal" isn't going to get you off the hook for shoplifting.

 

[Mr. Deez]

It is not his call to make, no matter what he believed. He is the investigator, not the prosecutor.

You're right, but it surprises me how little flack Loretta Lynch gets in this analysis. When she put this on Comey, the media should have grilled her. Somebody should have asked her, "isn't this your job? If it isn't, then why do we need an Attorney General?"

But instead, she was able to just say, "it's on Comey," and the dutiful media said, "oh, ok." That's nonsense.

Let's be real. Her BS put Comey in a terrible position. If he had gone rogue and recommended prosecution, does anybody honestly think Lynch would have told her lawyers to start preparing indictment paperwork? No chance in hell. She would have ignored his recommendation, and nobody in the media would have called her on that. Furthermore, the media would have treated him like they treated Kenneth Starr.

Now let's suppose Lynch would have decided she had some principles and decided to prosecute Clinton. She would have been indicting her party's nominee for President and guaranteeing Trump's election. That would have meant the end of her career in Democratic politics. She would have been viewed as a traitor to her party, her race, and her gender. That's why we have a provision for special prosecutors.

 

[Garmel]

And of course, if you buy Comey's analysis, it requires an intent to break the law. In all my years of studying and practicing law, I've never read or heard of a law that requires an intent to break the law. Even laws that require intent require an intent to perform the act not to break the law. That's why "I didn't know it was illegal to steal" isn't going to get you off the hook for shoplifting.

Between this and Comey's reaction with the release of the Nunes memo makes me think Comey is not a good man at all.

 

[OUBubba]

I wonder if Comey will migrate to a college and oversee a vast sexual assault cover up in his future just like Kenneth Starr? Yep, he's a good one.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I wonder if Comey will migrate to a college and oversee a vast sexual assault cover up in his future just like Kenneth Starr? Yep, he's a good one.

Actually, if Comey was in Starr's position, I'll bet he'd do the same thing, which was to do whatever he could to protect the university. If that took a little stonewalling and ********, I think he'd do it. I don't think that's the right thing to do, but colleges and universities in general do not have a good record of dealing with this sort of thing. They protect their football program, because that protects the university and its bottom line.

 

[horninchicago]

I wonder if Comey will migrate to a college and oversee a vast sexual assault cover up in his future just like Kenneth Starr? Yep, he's a good one.

Don't you mean run for President and oversee a vast sexual assault cover up like Hillary Clinton?

 

[Mr. Deez]

Between this and Comey's reaction with the release of the Nunes memo makes me think Comey is not a good man at all.

I'm not going to judge him as a man. I don't know him as a man. I do know someone who does know Comey as a man. I've known that someone very well for about 19 years, and during that time, he has shown me that he is a good man himself and is a good judge of character. Furthermore, he's not a bullshitter. If Comey was a bad guy, he wouldn't tell me that he was. (FWIW, we've had an honest conversation about Eric Holder. He's not a good man at all.)

It's easy to sit in judgment on Comey while sitting behind a computer, but what would others have done in his situation? He was put in a position in which he was expected to take the flack for the decisions of two people who were technically his superiors (Lynch and Obama), and he undoubtedly knew what they expected him to do. That never should have happened, and it's a disgrace that it did. If anyone isn't a good man or woman, it's Obama and Lynch. Your ire should be directed at them. I think most people who were similarly situated would have done what Comey did, or worse, they would have exonerated HRC with no explanation at all.

 

[Garmel]

I'm not going to judge him as a man. I don't know him as a man. I do know someone who does know Comey as a man. I've known that someone very well for about 19 years, and during that time, he has shown me that he is a good man himself and is a good judge of character. Furthermore, he's not a bullshitter. If Comey was a bad guy, he wouldn't tell me that he was. (FWIW, we've had an honest conversation about Eric Holder. He's not a good man at all.)

It's easy to sit in judgment on Comey while sitting behind a computer, but what would others have done in his situation? He was put in a position in which he was expected to take the flack for the decisions of two people who were technically his superiors (Lynch and Obama), and he undoubtedly knew what they expected him to do. That never should have happened, and it's a disgrace that it did. If anyone isn't a good man or woman, it's Obama and Lynch. Your ire should be directed at them. I think most people who were similarly situated would have done what Comey did, or worse, they would have exonerated HRC with no explanation at all.

We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Mr. Deez]

We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.

That's fine, but if you were Comey, what would you have done?

 

[Garmel]

That's fine, but if you were Comey, what would you have done?

I would have done the right thing regardless of consequences.

 

[OUBubba]

That is some good perspective Deez.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I would have done the right thing regardless of consequences.

Be specific. What was the right thing, and what would the consequences of doing so have been?

 

[Garmel]

Be specific. What was the right thing, and what would the consequences of doing so have been?

Announcing that Hillary should be prosecuted for gross negligence. Let Lynch squirm her way out of doing just that in front of the American people. The consequence of this could be nothing or possibly be fired by Obama.

 

[horninchicago]

He could have resigned if he wasn't able to do his job properly.

 

[humahuma]

I would of said it’s not my job to determine if someone should be prosecuted, that would be Lynch’s job. Then outline everything the investigation found.

 

[mchammer]

I don’t understand why Comey is still defending Obama and Lynch. I would have teamed with Trump and make their lives Holy Hell, but maybe that is just me.

 

[Garmel]

I don’t understand why Comey is still defending Obama and Lynch.

Because he' s part of the corruption like they are.