Post-loss BBS phenomena

L

LonghornGirlie

500+ Posts
I guess I'm in a PhxHorn-like mood today and decided to do a little research. Losing sucks. No two ways about it. The fans hate it, the players hate it, the coaches hate it. We all take it very hard because we care so damn much.

I was physically ill yesterday at the boo-ing, whether it was directed at one of our players or at our coaches, I don't really care. I was embarrassed to be a Longhorn fan -- not because of our team but because of our fans, and that I've never been. Any of you who did it should be ashamed.

I knew what I'd be facing as I returned to the computer late last night and some today after we returned from Dallas. I think its important that this community know that the negative folks out there are in a very tiny minority. They are vocal and they get a lot of attention -- as jerks often do -- but it is not as widespread as one might think, much like the boo-ing minority yesterday.

I began my research with the hypothesis that fans follow a statistical pattern and can be subject to the name numerical analysis that our players are. Secondly, I assume that a BBS is a reasonable cross-section of the general fan base -- HornFans in particular being a reasonable cross-section of Longhorns and others who take an interest in Longhorn sports (such as rivals, etc).

In the history of HornFans, we've banned 620 posters. Many of these are "duplicates", so the actual number is somewhat less than that. Our total registered users number 14135. 464 of those posters had less than 100 posts.

Since last night, I've banned 20 posters, which to me is a very high number. 8 of those are obvious non-Longhorns. 8 of the remaining 12 posters (who affiliation is not clear from their username) were less than 100 post posters. The remaining 4 were in the low hundreds.

Even more interestingly, of those 12 posters who are possible Longhorns, 10 registered after September of this year, 5 since November. The 2 who were registered before this season -- one was a very questionable banishment that I went back and forth about before deciding to go ahead and ban. The other was self-professed as having too much to drink last night and has already emailed to apologize for his behavior and request reinstatement.

I didn't know what to expect when I started delving into the numbers. I honestly don't pay attention to a poster's history when choosing to ban them or not. None of these names were ones that I had any particular recollection of in regard to their posting history.

There is a very real bandwagon effect at play here. I think our true fans should know and I hope that our team is aware of it. The pathetic display last night was not representative of the type of person who follows this program year in and year out.

Let me cut one response off at the pass -- No, I don't think you have to post on HornFans or even be registered on HornFans to be a true fan. I began this post on the assumption that our registered user base is a reasonable cross-section of the community at large. Its the percentage of "troublemakers" to our total userbase that I think is of interest. Of the literally thousands of users of HornFans, its on a very few that have acted like complete morons this weekend and all of those are band-wagoners.
 
i suppose you don't have a stats on posters you didn't ban, but that we won't hear from again because their heads exploded?
 
I hope you are not implying that just because someone is new here, they are a bandwagoning fan.

I had a friend from Missouri that goes to college in Nashville taunt me online last night, saying that the "real UT" had won. She has never indicated anything until now that she was anything other than a Missouri Tigers fan, and now all a sudden she's trying to taunt me about the UT loss. Now all a sudden she's saying she's a Vol fan and she's going to live in Tennessee from now on. It was quite annoying. (she'll probably be taunting me pretty soon about how Kareem Rush is gonna kill us when we play them...grrr) Just to say that I know how annoying bandwagon fans are and I am not one. I do have some divisive opinions about certain topics Applewhite/Simms, Boo/Non-Boo, Greg Davis, etc, but I woudn't be here if i didn't want to discuss them.

Hook 'Em!
 
The only reason a poster has ever been banned is for violating our posting guidelines to which all of you agreed when registering for an account.

Posting Guidelines

Brons, no, I don't think you HAVE to have been here for a long time to be a good Longhorn fan. I'm saying that in researching the statistics regarding posters on this BBS, there is a very clear and definite trend that says that there are bandwagon, fairweather fans who are now bitching to high heaven about 20 year old guys who give their blood, sweat, and tears every day of their lives to this University. Of course, there are statistical outliers.

The numbers suggest that you haven't been around long enough to know what is considered acceptable on this board and what is not. Constructive criticism is accepted and encouraged. Its often not what you say, but how you say it. I do recommend that you review the guidelines linked above.
 
This one is a real test - because a win could have given us a shot at the big prize. And because our kids fought so hard against a mountain of obstacles. The thing that has kept me sane today is that our guys never ever quit fighting to win the game. A lot of people in the media commented they had never seen a Nebraska team (or Nebraska defense) quit before their Colorado game. We 'held' that same offense to a much lower margin and would have won but for the tough things that happened. I want to say THANK YOU to every player who fought to the end. When you have a team that fights like that in the face of so many things going wrong - right up to the end with the penalty on the attempted punt block & they still didn't quit - you've got the building blocks for greatness. I thought the coaching was good too - except for attempting to block the punt at the end when:
(a) we had zero margin of error,
(b) there was four minutes left,
(c) we had two time outs left, and
(d) we were moving the ball great.
But even that decision is defensable in the sense that it was done to aggressively try to win the game.

I am terribly disappointed in the outcome and in the bad things that happened to us - but I am proud of our players and our coaches for not quitting. Thank you Longhorns.
 
I honestly doubt that this BBS represents a reasonable cross-section of fans. I wasn't at the game. I don't know how many people booed. It was enough people that it was very obvious on the TV. Assuming that Texas had 2/3rds of the stadium filled, I would venture that 1/4 to 1/2 the fans were booing. It was at a minimum of 10,000 if not 30 or 40. You would think that the "most loyal" fans would be the ones at the game and ought to represent a lower percentage of booers than those people at home throwing happy meals at the TV. Since almost no one on this BBS admits to it or seems to condone it, then the BBS does not represent a true cross-section of fans.
 
I don't know, Nick. A few folks here have "admitted" it, although under the excuses:

1. I was boo-ing the coaches, which is ok because they are professional (as if the players could make that distinction during the game)

2. I paid $100 for my ticket and I can do whatever the **** I want -- sounds like a bandwagon to me!

The kind of person who reads HornFans is surely among the more passionate fan. While not a cross-section, I would expect that HornFans represents the worst of fans and the best of fans.

I do think that the negativity has a bandwagon effect as well. Someone had to be the first to start that disgusting behavior, and only the morons would follow suit.
 
I think the horns fans posters tend to be pretty damn informed. They are also on several other boards. I would agree that this isn't a true cross section of UT fans. Some of the grads I work with know nothing of the program. I cringe at what I will hear tomarrow.
 
I was there and had to unfortunately witness the booing. Everybody in the stadium knew who was being booed and it wasn't the coaching staff. It was inexcusable, end of story.
 
I feel horrible.

No blame.
Just a lot of hurt.

frown.gif
 
thats the best point of all. the lady next to me said she wants booing simms, she was a friend of his and went to school with him (even though she was in her early 40s. sorry lady, no amount of make up will fool me there).

i say, 50,000 fans weren't, because they were chanting major, major right before and after. and out of the others who did boo the coaches, who the hell is chris ismms supposed to know? idiots.
 
Nick, I would say that we had 2/3 to 3/4 of the stadium yesterday. That burnt orange thing that Mack got going is really working. Its much easier to determine the Longhorn "sections" now.

I disagree that the folks there were the "most loyal" fans. Read sugarplum's post about the girls behind her and the so-called fans to her side. There were bunches of that sort around me as well. Several who showed up in the mid first quarter. I got calls from everyone and their sister -- "Can you get me tickets?" -- folks who hadn't been to a game all season!

If you want to experience the most loyal fans, go to away games. And I don't count OU -- that's called nuetral anyway. And not Baylor or even Lubbock. Stillwater is minimally acceptable. Try Columbia, or damn Kansas in the freezing cold last year.

It is such a pleasure. You'll find only knowledgable and passionate fans around you. And everyone will be loud and supportive of the team, even if they don't agree with everything happening on the field.
 
I wasn't there, but to my discredit I would have booed. I know I felt like it sitting on the couch at home. The boo/no-boo decision is a quick one that can't be boiled down to a simple dislike for a player, at least not on the scale we heard at the game. Personally, I'd been yelling at Mack Brown from my living room for keeping Simms in the game after the fumble, and the boos that erupted after the third pick were partly aimed at MB's decision to ride the dead horse into the ground while dragging rest of the team and the fans right down with them. Simms on the other hand, just didn't get serious with himself and decided to commit to a happy, "we'll get it back" denial of the responsibility on his shoulders. All the post-screw up hand clapping, "my bad", "we'll get it back" poclamations by coach and player must be secondary to a real decision to change your approach to avoid committing another screw-up. It's that self-deception that bothers me most and evokes the boo. I'll agree that a player isn't able to distinguish those intents. And for Simms I feel truly sorry he had to hear the boos, but I can only hope he understands our collective appreciation for his coming to Texas and being part of us and playing hard for the team. But Brown's conscious choices should be subject to emotional fan disapproval. After all, he's paid millions for his work and thick skin. Cheering an injury, however, is most troubling. I've got to think it was purely a reaction to getting Major in the game and the coaches choice to finally make the substitution that should have been made 1 or 2 series before that point. Hopefully we booers will think hard about it and make a better choice when the boo bug wants to bite.
 
There wasn't any ulterior point I was trying to prove. Lawyers are taught to always go after the assumptions first and I think we have a little slice of life here that is unique. LHFZ certainly has its own unique flavor as does 360.

As far as the "loyal fans" thing goes, I would still think that most of the fans are there because of the team and not as some Dallas social event. Sure, there are going to be some like that and some dates that don't really care, but then why would those people care enough to boo.
 
I'd be interesting in seeing the ban numbers cross-referenced against the number of banned who actually graduated from UT (or attended for more than a year).I know a lot of fickle, bandwagon fans, and 90 percent of them never set foot on the UT campus other than to attend a football game. My experience with these fans has been that they treat the team as a professional entity, one that they have no real attachment to other than their rooting interest.

As a result, they are not at all interested in how the team's conduct/performance OR their own behavior reflects on the University of Texas.

To them, the attitude is simple. Boo Simms? Call him a *****? Scream profanities at Mack Brown for sticking with Simms after two INTs? Why not? After all, Texas is supposed to provide them with entertainment, and because their attachment to the team is borne of nothing other than its wins, they have no obligation or desire to put up with poor performances.

To them, being a Longhorn is simply a matter of playing or rooting for the team to win, not supporting the players and coaches as fellow members of the university community.

Pretty sorry.

I'm not saying either that alumni are immune to this or that non-alumni are poor fans (hell, I drunkely posted something to the effect last night that I would never respect Simms again unless he led a comeback win, and his comportment in the post-game press conference completely changed my opinion of that). I'm simply explaining my experience with those two groups and I would be interested to see if that cross-reference bears it out or, if it's just me.

Wouldn't be the first time...
 
Nick, no problem at all. I'm married to one of your ilk, if you'll recall.
smile.gif
I realize the assumptions are imprecise, but I did want to try to research the subject and not just go on "gut feel" and such -- which we often do when evaluating the performance of our players. I wanted to see what the numbers would produce when analyzing our fans.

Of course, the only numbers that I have available are from HornFans. And obviously my own biases come into play as I (and the moderators) make the call on who gets banned and who doesn't. But I did the best that I could with the information at hand, and was pleasantly surpised at the results. When you ban 20 people in one day, it feels like you are banning the entire world.

I still disagree on the Dallas social event thing. I think a LOT of people in the stands were exactly that. I think more than we know were Cowboy ticket holders who chose to "support" Texas because it was the "home" team. Maybe I'm wrong... I hope not. I just don't have any way of analyzing the data from the game.

Whoever they were, they certainly were loud. We did make a lot of noise on defense. Although I don't think they were knowledgable football fans, because they'd also make a lot of noise even when we were on offense and our QB was under center. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that is not the time to be vocally supporting your team.

I've been bothered all season by the enormous roar of the crowd when Major has entered the game. I was glad for him. I love Major, and I think he has handled this year with an unbelievable dignity and class. But it always struck me as too much about an individual.

And we saw its ugly downside yesterday.
 
Longhhorngirlie,

I know you are hurting after this game as all Longhorn fans are. What hurts more is that we screwed up our best chance ever to win a national championship. You know from the very beginning that I never approved of Simms as the starter and was banned earlier for such comments, but I can surely not be counted as a bandwagoner for saying it now. What gets me most about this forum though is how you guys will not allow certain players to be bashed on this forum and will ban posters for those actions, but it is ok for fans (moderators included) to go after a certain coach. If that is not hypocritical, I don't know what is. I love your website, but it leaves a little to be desired in allowing fans to speak there minds. I doubt very little if a recruit is going to make a decision as to what school he will attend based on what is said on a certain fan forum. As I stated earlier, Major should have never have lost his starting job last year until it was proven on the field that he couldn't lead this team. I feel it had a very detremental effect on the horns last year, especially at the beginning and leading up to the Oklahoma game. Heck, he even made Greg Davis look like a genious with the way he ran his offense when he was in there against Colorado. So, I hope people will realize that now and get off of Greg Davis back once and for all to include certain moderators. Well, I hope I haven't crossed over any sacred lines with my post here, but if I have, so be it. Thanks anyway and Hook'em forever.
 
I've been registered at this site for over a year and never posted anything until this post right here. I would bet there are many people familiar with using the site that don't necessarily post a lot of comments.
 
Thanks Longhorn ie. I was proud of our fans for abou 56 minutes of last night's game. It was the best performance by Texas fans I've ever been a part of. I was losing my voice before the opening kickoff, and it kept going all game. But the booing is a shame and it does have potential to ruin a program. Mack is a positive and loyal guy. He will not be able to stand the disloyalty some of our fans show our players.
 
I've never been more embarrassed and pissed off at a Longhorn game in my life. I couldn't believe so many fans were booing. I wanted to beat their collective asses. Chris just doesn't deserve the crap he goes through. And to anyone that says they were booing the coaches, that's a bs excuse because my money's on you were booing Simms and his performance...but what ever helps you sleep at night.
 
bigjimjack: welcome. it's good to hear your 'voice'.

statistically...I actually do wonder what the 'silent majority' of posters think: LHG, if there are 14000 registered users, how many of them post in any given day, and is there anyway to tell how many total people visit the site without being regsitered in any given day? BBS are somewhat cliquish in nature (and I'm sure that others would deem 'somewhat' the wrong modifer of the level of cliquishness). I know for a fact, that there's a lot of people that resist getting involved, and who are happy to just lurk and read.

all that said, this place is great. I'm glad we don't have the verification system of some other BBS, but there are some days I wish I had the ability to ban someone. ....or, even better, the access to smack them upside the head.
 
excellent posts and responses Katy. i do take issue w/ one comment however. the "fans" booing Simms last night were NOT in the minority. it was perhaps the noisiest part of the game. i swear, i thought myself and Ketchum were the only people in out section not booing. it was absolutely disgraceful behavior. the "fans" cheering an injured Chris Simms leaving the field is DISPICABLE.

Hook 'Em
 
There are a lot of ignorant fans, who are influenced by those around them. I bet many were booing and did not know why except they were unhappy because we were behind.
I boo the refs and the opposing coaching staff and team if I think that they are playing dirty. No one should ever boo anyone on our team, regardless of the results.
Many of the best posters and fans do not even come to the boards for several days after a loss, because of the negative and ignorant posts that fill the post-loss board.
 
As my name says I am from part of the country that is not afraid to speak their mind. We are used to voicing our displeasure if it is warranted. Last night the Major Major chant was not warranted. I was at the game and actually didn't hear the boos but I did hear the Major, Major chant(I ref soccer so I think I tune out most fan comments and noises naturally). We really need to support the effort of the team. If this team or a player quits we should boo. This team never quit and hasn't quit in a long time. Sims had a bad day. Unfortunately it happens. There was no need to boo last night.
 
I was there and at LEAST half of the UT fans there had to be booing to make that much noise. I was not one of them. I do not boo KIDS who play for my school for FREE. EVER.

I am an alum and have been going to our games since 1968 and I will never forget how disgusting that moment was. After last night, I dont think we deserve someone who is as good a player and person as Chris Simms.

Or Major Applewhite for that matter.
 
texaus, I'm glad I wasn't in your section. Frankly the folks around me were in shock at the boos. Just as well because I think I would have decked anyone around me for doing such a thing.
 
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