4 well positioned 50 cal machine guns on these ships would handle the issue no problem.
Pirates -- now cutting off the British tea supply
- Thread starter Chop
- Start date
The insurer ought to require it.
US insurer's? They're more likely to require unisex restrooms on the pirate ships.
That would probably cause more problems than it would solve. Civilian ships with crew-served weapons go up to or just over legality. On top of that, the owner's legal counsel would have a fit because any damage/loss of life inflicted could be the basis of legal action. Much cleaner and better to let the Navy take care of the issue without worry of fault. (Yes there is more the US DoD could be doing about the situation, but no ship or its personnel have been injured/damaged so far so good.)
Japan has just about had enough of pirates messing with shipping that affects them. The Japanese Naval Self Defense Force (really they’re the new IJN) announced an operation it will be conducting against the Red Sea pirates. The IJN is highly competent and works really well with the USN.
Meanwhile, Iran is sending a warship to the Red Sea, claiming it to be for the purpose of ensuring the freedom of the seas.
Meanwhile, Iran is sending a warship to the Red Sea, claiming it to be for the purpose of ensuring the freedom of the seas.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Japan has just about had enough of pirates messing with shipping that affects them. The Japanese Naval Self Defense Force (really they’re the new IJN) announced an operation it will be conducting against the Red Sea pirates. The IJN is highly competent and works really well with the USN.
Meanwhile, Iran is sending a warship to the Red Sea, claiming it to be for the purpose of ensuring the freedom of the seas.
States need to police the seas around their own countries. "Territorial waters" exist for a reason. It is where a state should protect property rights on the water. You don't need empires to do this. You need actual state sovereignty pursuing justice. But that isn't what exists in our world.
The pirates are operating from one or more of the states bordering the choke point to the Red Sea.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Are you talking about the Houthis from Yemen?
Red Sea crisis - beware of political drift over diversions
Shipping industry concerns over diversion of ships down around the Cape. Shipping industry leaders are concerned about today's South Africa, its ports and ability to provide necessary maritime services.
Shipping industry concerns over diversion of ships down around the Cape. Shipping industry leaders are concerned about today's South Africa, its ports and ability to provide necessary maritime services.
India should lead fight against sea piracy
India wants to help out.
The QUAD = USA, Japan, India, Australia. United in opposition to China and pirates.
India wants to help out.
The QUAD = USA, Japan, India, Australia. United in opposition to China and pirates.
When it hurts the oil exporters (Arab countries). It doesn’t hurt us.
This guy is pretty knowledgeable. He is a retired merchant mariner who used to captain large merchant ships.
- Iran is using a large merchant ship as a spy ship in the Red Sea. It just goes back and forth, viewing the ships coming by (and reporting them--name, flagged nationality, type of ship, location--to Iran's toadies the Houthis). Iran is being a very bad actor against the freedom of the seas and the people of the World.
- Convoys are being run
- There is a meeting point in the Northern Red Sea, and another meeting point in the Arabian Gulf outside the Red Sea. The merchant ships hang out there private security guards meet them, board the ship, and ride them through the gauntlet. This is protection against small speedboats. To protect against drones and missiles, they need US Burke class destroyers or something close to them.
- US/UK ships are running the convoys. India and Italy may also be involved. The US convoys aren't pure escorts, but rather are ships spread out through the gauntlet.
- There was a battle in one of the conveys between US/UK warships and land based missiles/drones.
[thus far, we seem to be showing an awful lot of restraint in not shooting an over-the-horizon Tomahawk strike or something similar...]
- Iran is using a large merchant ship as a spy ship in the Red Sea. It just goes back and forth, viewing the ships coming by (and reporting them--name, flagged nationality, type of ship, location--to Iran's toadies the Houthis). Iran is being a very bad actor against the freedom of the seas and the people of the World.
- Convoys are being run
- There is a meeting point in the Northern Red Sea, and another meeting point in the Arabian Gulf outside the Red Sea. The merchant ships hang out there private security guards meet them, board the ship, and ride them through the gauntlet. This is protection against small speedboats. To protect against drones and missiles, they need US Burke class destroyers or something close to them.
- US/UK ships are running the convoys. India and Italy may also be involved. The US convoys aren't pure escorts, but rather are ships spread out through the gauntlet.
- There was a battle in one of the conveys between US/UK warships and land based missiles/drones.
[thus far, we seem to be showing an awful lot of restraint in not shooting an over-the-horizon Tomahawk strike or something similar...]
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Iran is not the same as Iraq...
I never said they were the same.
But Iran is a major player in Iraq. Iran could want to control Iraqi oil. Would they use pirates to take a ship ? OR would they take it themselves. That was my question
Part 1: Iran's Role in Iraq
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-seeks-cool-tensions-iraq-2021-12-22/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/19/world/middleeast/iraq-war-iran.html
But Iran is a major player in Iraq. Iran could want to control Iraqi oil. Would they use pirates to take a ship ? OR would they take it themselves. That was my question
Part 1: Iran's Role in Iraq
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-seeks-cool-tensions-iraq-2021-12-22/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/19/world/middleeast/iraq-war-iran.html
US, British militaries launch massive retaliatory strike against Iranian-backed Houthis in Yemen
Taking the battle to them.
"The U.S. and British militaries bombed more than a dozen sites used by the Iranian-backed Houthis in Yemen on Thursday, in a massive retaliatory strike using warship- and submarine-launched Tomahawk missiles and fighter jets, U.S. officials said.
The U.S. Air Force’s Mideast command said it struck over 60 targets at 16 sites in Yemen, including “command-and-control nodes, munitions depots, launching systems, production facilities and air defense radar systems.”
President Joe Biden said the strikes were meant to demonstrate that the U.S. and its allies “will not tolerate” the militant group’s ceaseless attacks on the Red Sea. And he said they only made the move after attempts at diplomatic negotiations and careful deliberation."
Taking the battle to them.
"The U.S. and British militaries bombed more than a dozen sites used by the Iranian-backed Houthis in Yemen on Thursday, in a massive retaliatory strike using warship- and submarine-launched Tomahawk missiles and fighter jets, U.S. officials said.
The U.S. Air Force’s Mideast command said it struck over 60 targets at 16 sites in Yemen, including “command-and-control nodes, munitions depots, launching systems, production facilities and air defense radar systems.”
President Joe Biden said the strikes were meant to demonstrate that the U.S. and its allies “will not tolerate” the militant group’s ceaseless attacks on the Red Sea. And he said they only made the move after attempts at diplomatic negotiations and careful deliberation."
UN Security Council demands Houthis stop Red Sea shipping attacks
Even the UN opposes the Houthi pirates/terrorists. Iran supports them, as does Hamas.
Even the UN opposes the Houthi pirates/terrorists. Iran supports them, as does Hamas.
We need to be lobbing those Tomahawks into Tehran.
Egypt should be going berserker mode on these Houthi followers. Egypt has the most to lose from it.
Remember, the entire world has been freeloading off of the freedom of the seas provided by the USN for the past 80 or so years. If we just said “we’ll protect our ships, you protect yours”, a lot of nations would be in a lot of trouble. I don’t mind our Navy protecting the freedom of the seas worldwide, but other nations need to chip in $$$$$. Especially those like Egypt who depend greatly on canal revenue. Same with Greece, China, Japan, Denmark, and Korea with their big fleets of cargo liners. And the national oil companies who ship their oil overseas. Pony up freeloaders.
Remember, the entire world has been freeloading off of the freedom of the seas provided by the USN for the past 80 or so years. If we just said “we’ll protect our ships, you protect yours”, a lot of nations would be in a lot of trouble. I don’t mind our Navy protecting the freedom of the seas worldwide, but other nations need to chip in $$$$$. Especially those like Egypt who depend greatly on canal revenue. Same with Greece, China, Japan, Denmark, and Korea with their big fleets of cargo liners. And the national oil companies who ship their oil overseas. Pony up freeloaders.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
The Houthis are actually the reigning regime of Yemen, and there links to Iran are tenuous.
The Republic of Yemen is the sovereign, although "Houthi" Shiite Muslim rebels control a large chunk of the countryside in the Southwest. It's one messed-up country.
Yemen has a shameful history, in which it expelled almost all of its smartest citizens, the Yemenites, over the past 100 years. What a bunch of morons.
Yemen Embassy in Washington DC
Yemen - United States Department of State
Who are the Houthis, and why are we at war with them? | Brookings
Hussein al-Houthi
Founder of the Houthi Shiite Muslim Rebels
(another guy you wouldn't want to invite to your dinner party)
Yemen has a shameful history, in which it expelled almost all of its smartest citizens, the Yemenites, over the past 100 years. What a bunch of morons.
Yemen Embassy in Washington DC
Yemen - United States Department of State
Who are the Houthis, and why are we at war with them? | Brookings
Hussein al-Houthi
Founder of the Houthi Shiite Muslim Rebels
(another guy you wouldn't want to invite to your dinner party)
Yemen - United States Department of State.
The Houthis are extreme persecutors of Christians.
"According to ACLED, the Houthis targeted Christian converts through “judicial harassment on charges of apostasy” as well as other extrajudicial means such as threats and assaults. They imposed ideologically driven constraints on women’s freedom of movement and access to employment, education, and health care. According to the UN special rapporteur, the Houthis spread “hateful rhetoric” against religious minorities in the educational curriculum. According to Open Doors, Christians and other religious minorities were the most vulnerable in Houthi-controlled areas in the north and rural areas in the south, where there was a strong al-Qa’ida presence and where ISIS-Yemen (ISIS-Y) also targeted Christians.
Open Doors said pressure on Christians in all spheres of life, including education, employment, family life, and the ability to observer religious practices, was “at extreme levels.” Converts faced death threats and risked banishment from their tribes if they did not return to Islam."
The Houthis are extreme persecutors of Christians.
"According to ACLED, the Houthis targeted Christian converts through “judicial harassment on charges of apostasy” as well as other extrajudicial means such as threats and assaults. They imposed ideologically driven constraints on women’s freedom of movement and access to employment, education, and health care. According to the UN special rapporteur, the Houthis spread “hateful rhetoric” against religious minorities in the educational curriculum. According to Open Doors, Christians and other religious minorities were the most vulnerable in Houthi-controlled areas in the north and rural areas in the south, where there was a strong al-Qa’ida presence and where ISIS-Yemen (ISIS-Y) also targeted Christians.
Open Doors said pressure on Christians in all spheres of life, including education, employment, family life, and the ability to observer religious practices, was “at extreme levels.” Converts faced death threats and risked banishment from their tribes if they did not return to Islam."
Tawfiq al-Hamiri, a Houthi leader, is a member of the Supreme Revolutionary Committee
(not to generalize based on appearance, but something tells me that this Houthi Islamist extremist might someday get arrested after getting caught paying male prostitutes in a gas station bathroom or something)
(and definitely don't invite this guy to your dinner party; especially if you have male children)
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https://www.christianpost.com/news/...d-face-heightened-persecution-open-doors.html
After the Biden administration removed the Houthi organization, known as Ansar Allah, from the list of foreign terrorist organizations early last month, two Saudi-influenced newspapers reported Yemen’s Houthi militia is threatening Christians with extended detainment.
You have the danger of this Houthi political agenda against Christians,” Curry warned. “They are detaining [Christians]. They’re torturing pastors and leaders in the country, so it’s a complicating factor.”
Prisoners released from the Houthi detention centers have revealed Houthis are targeting Yemenis suspected of being Christian.
“They are using discrimination against Christians to try to gain control, to enforce terror in some of these communities,” Curry said. “… The Church and Christian minorities [are] being caught in the crosshairs of this. You have several thousand Christians there. But you have so many factors of oppression, discrimination, and violence against them that just makes it very, very difficult.”
Curry believes the removal of the terrorist designation from the Houthis was an attempt for the U.S. to have more peaceful relations with Iran. “The Biden administration, I believe, is coupling this with other agreements with Iran,” Curry explained. “They want to be on friendlier terms and strengthen Iran’s influence in the region, and this would certainly do that. I don’t think that’s going to be helpful, but I think that’s the strategy.”
After the Biden administration removed the Houthi organization, known as Ansar Allah, from the list of foreign terrorist organizations early last month, two Saudi-influenced newspapers reported Yemen’s Houthi militia is threatening Christians with extended detainment.
You have the danger of this Houthi political agenda against Christians,” Curry warned. “They are detaining [Christians]. They’re torturing pastors and leaders in the country, so it’s a complicating factor.”
Prisoners released from the Houthi detention centers have revealed Houthis are targeting Yemenis suspected of being Christian.
“They are using discrimination against Christians to try to gain control, to enforce terror in some of these communities,” Curry said. “… The Church and Christian minorities [are] being caught in the crosshairs of this. You have several thousand Christians there. But you have so many factors of oppression, discrimination, and violence against them that just makes it very, very difficult.”
Curry believes the removal of the terrorist designation from the Houthis was an attempt for the U.S. to have more peaceful relations with Iran. “The Biden administration, I believe, is coupling this with other agreements with Iran,” Curry explained. “They want to be on friendlier terms and strengthen Iran’s influence in the region, and this would certainly do that. I don’t think that’s going to be helpful, but I think that’s the strategy.”
U.S. says it seized Iran missile parts bound for the Houthis after SEALs went overboard
"A team of Navy SEALs that lost two sailors overboard while searching a small boat off the coast of Somalia went on to find Iranian missile parts bound for Tehran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen, the U.S. military said Tuesday.
American ships and aircraft are continuing a huge search and rescue mission in the Gulf of Aden, between Yemen and Somalia, after the two SEALs disappeared into rough, nighttime seas during the boarding operation last Thursday.
Despite losing their two crew members, the team went on to find "Iranian-made ballistic missile and cruise missiles components" including propulsion, guidance, and warheads for medium-range ballistic missiles and anti-ship cruise missiles, U.S. Central Command, which oversees the military in the Middle East and parts of Asia, said in a statement posted on X.
CENTCOM said that the arms discovered by the SEALs were the same type of weapons that the Houthis have used to attack international merchant shipping in the Red Sea — jeopardizing a vital maritime artery in what the militant group says is a protest against Israel's war in the Gaza Strip."
"A team of Navy SEALs that lost two sailors overboard while searching a small boat off the coast of Somalia went on to find Iranian missile parts bound for Tehran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen, the U.S. military said Tuesday.
American ships and aircraft are continuing a huge search and rescue mission in the Gulf of Aden, between Yemen and Somalia, after the two SEALs disappeared into rough, nighttime seas during the boarding operation last Thursday.
Despite losing their two crew members, the team went on to find "Iranian-made ballistic missile and cruise missiles components" including propulsion, guidance, and warheads for medium-range ballistic missiles and anti-ship cruise missiles, U.S. Central Command, which oversees the military in the Middle East and parts of Asia, said in a statement posted on X.
CENTCOM said that the arms discovered by the SEALs were the same type of weapons that the Houthis have used to attack international merchant shipping in the Red Sea — jeopardizing a vital maritime artery in what the militant group says is a protest against Israel's war in the Gaza Strip."
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