Our Offensive Line Stinks

[horninchicago]

Daddy, what happens when a bigger guy stiff arms a smaller guy?

If the defender doesn't go in so high and trying to take down the bigger guy by grabbing him, he probably doesn't get stiff armed.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

Part of the problem in these last two games is that Sam is a little deflated and uninspired when it comes to the passing game. He probably feels it's all out of sync and that's why he is hanging on to the ball too long. It's a lack of confidence in the scheme. We desperately need a new offensive coordinator, some new light. LSU got it this year, we can do the same.

Sam is hanging onto the ball because of coverage. It seems like our receivers other than Duvernay and perhaps Eagles have been trained to run to the defensive back and stand there so they can be covered. Also with no offensive line and no idea of what kind of protection he is getting, Ehlinger has very few options in the pocket.

 

[RTM4]

Ignorant hyperbole. You may return to GBH now.

As a team I stand by my opinion, this team stinks.
TEAM being the key word. We have a bunch of top notch players, top notch facilities and fans but not a TEAM. Seems to me it is just a bunch of talented individuals following a lost coaching staff. Quit drinking the orange koolaid, there is trouble on the 40 acres.

 

[Pomspoms]

Sam is hanging onto the ball because of coverage. It seems like our receivers other than Duvernay and perhaps Eagles have been trained to run to the defensive back and stand there so they can be covered. Also with no offensive line and no idea of what kind of protection he is getting, Ehlinger has very few options in the pocket.

This is relatively close to what I said

 

[Chop]

Hand put together some excellent offensive lines at Auburn. In fact, he was a finalist for the national OL coach of the year. Our OL improved from around the worst in college football under the Charlie regime to a pretty good OL by about the 3rd to 4th game this season. Then they appeared to regress.

Below are some possible explanations for the apparent decline mid-to-late season:

1. Hand is doing fine. It's mainly Beck and Herman's fault. We're too predictable in our play calling. Only supermen can repeatedly block effectively when the other team knows what's coming.
2. The WRs aren't getting open. Sam has to scramble after a while frequently so he gets sacked a lot.
3. Our OGs need work on picking up the (delayed) blitzes and loop around stunts. Braun and Angilau are brutes at run blocking, but have a hard time seeing the (delayed) blitzes and loop around stunts and picking them up. Everyone figured this out by mid-season, so--of course--we're seeing lots of (delayed) blitzes and loop around stunts.
4. (i) OU's Gallimore and (ii) WV's Stills are 2 BAMFs who were way too tough for us to block effectively.
5. Cosmi is good, but let's just say we don't have to worry about him leaving early for the NFL anymore. Our expectations were unrealistic. He has 2 more years.
6. Hand excels at teaching OL in run-first schemes like at Auburn. Wrong league for that.
7. S&C has actually bulked up our OL too much. They'd be better at around 10 lbs lighter or so. Not enough quickness or flexibility.

 

[WorsterMan]

We're too predictable in our play calling.

^^^^ This is THE # 1 problem with the Offense.

 

[horninchicago]

^^^^ This is THE # 1 problem with the Offense.

Problems #2 through 72 don't help.

 

[WorsterMan]

^^^^ This is THE # 1 problem with the Offense.

Problem # 2 is arguably: Scheme

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

Weird thing was our OL played well against LSU, Okie State, and West Virginia. Maybe not fantastic or all-world, but they were more of a strength than a weakness at that point. And since then they seem to regress every single game.

And Hand is obviously a good OL Coach.

Are the players not listening? It is very tough to tell. Should we be rotating in more linemen?

 

[zuckercanyon]

I don’t think that our problem is the O-Line. These players aren’t chopped liver and against probably the best defensive line we faced this year, LSU, they were nails.

We’ve had virtually no attrition except for Junior, two games ago. So the entire unit has basically been intact. That’s not typical.

It’s not the players and it’s not their motivation. Simply, it’s the play-calling and the scheming. When defenses know what you’re going to do, unless your team has an overwhelming player talent advantage — like Alabama has had for years — they can stop you.

Yes, I do believe that it’s that simple and if we hire the right OC for next year I expect for this offense to return to proficiency immediately.

Maybe they got up for that (early in the year) game but when the season progressed and more film was available, their lack of talent exposed them for the ineffective unit they are. Defenses figured out their weaknesses and there it is.....

 

[dukesteer]

Zuck, I think too often the default explanation for poor performances is a lack of talent. I rarely share that perspective. We’re Texas and we recruit extremely well.

The next argument is that we don’t develop our players very well. Fair enough but I don’t believe that’s the case with Hand. I’ll add that I also think at least two of our starting five OLs will be playing on Sunday. Cosmi and one other...

Unless you have a dominant and overwhelming talent edge, most defenses can neutralize an offense if they know what’s coming. I believe that, starting with OU, that’s has usually been the case. It certainly was at ISU and last weekend, and that is almost entirely on Herman and Beck.

 

[zuckercanyon]

Zuck, I think too often the default explanation for poor performances is a lack of talent. I rarely share that perspective. We’re Texas and we recruit extremely well.

The next argument is that we don’t develop our players very well. Fair enough but I don’t believe that’s the case with Hand. I’ll add that I also think at least two of our starting five OLs will be playing on Sunday. Cosmi and one other...

Unless you have a dominant and overwhelming talent edge, most defenses can neutralize an offense if they know what’s coming. I believe that, starting with OU, that’s has usually been the case. It certainly was at ISU and last weekend, and that is almost entirely on Herman and Beck.

Repeating what I've posted on other threads, but more concise.
2016 Offensive Line recruiting:
4-stars: Hudson/Delance/Okafor/Urquidez
3-stars: Shackelford/Imade
2017 Offensive Line recruiting:
3 stars: Kerstetter/Cosmi

I'm not trying to make a "stand and die for my cause" position, just don't feel like these two classes (our theoretical juniors and seniors anchoring the line) have panned out very well. Texas may have recruited very well but I don't think they've met expectations (whatever that might be). Someone with more knowledge than I can show/explain each of these players' number of games started/played to show how good they are. I'll also say that bringing in grad transfers to fill a gap for one season isn't exactly working out well (guessing that a 5 man line that works together multiple seasons (more than one) would help matters. My two cents, it's unreasonable expectations from two classes that don't scream excellence.

 

[dukesteer]

Zuck, good points all. I’m just not much of a believer in star ratings for O-lineman. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have all five stars. But lately the lower stars seem to be developing into better players. Again, Conner Williams and Cosmi are perfect examples.

I think we likely have a Top 20 OL this year. (Yes, I actually said that.) I just think that because our play-calling has not evolved and has become stale, defenses figured us out, starting with OU.

Perhaps a typical example would be Sam’s inability to make short yardage first downs. Just like what happened a few years ago at OU with the Belldozer (initially unstoppable), defenses have figured how to stop Sam. Either that or the loss of our TE from last year, or both...

I’m a believer that with more innovative play-calling and the use of deception and misdirection we would have scored 21-28 more points against both ISU and Baylor. Just my two cents.

 

[ViperHorn]

defenses figured us out, starting with OU.

Could be, but there is something else. A team doesn't go from very good against oSu to sucking for the remainder of the season in seven days because one team "figured" another team out. Especially since no team in the Big XII (other than ou) has better talent than Texas.

Unless an insider spills the beans, we probably will never know what happened in the locker room during that week. Whatever that was, it goes to the top of the issues list.

 

[wadster]

Part of the problem in these last two games is that Sam is a little deflated and uninspired when it comes to the passing game. He probably feels it's all out of sync and that's why he is hanging on to the ball too long. It's a lack of confidence in the scheme. We desperately need a new offensive coordinator, some new light. LSU got it this year, we can do the same.

It's not always holding the ball too long, but not stepping up in the pocket. Baylor would rush 3 and if the OT's pushed the DE's wide, Sam would panic instead of stepping up in the pocket and delivering a throw. If a team drops 8, you aren't going to have guys open early.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

Maybe they got up for that (early in the year) game but when the season progressed and more film was available, their lack of talent exposed them for the ineffective unit they are. Defenses figured out their weaknesses and there it is.....

I do not buy that weaknesses were discovered. I just think that they just got beat later in the game as the season went on. There's no reason that any weaknesses would not be apparent early in the season.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

It's not always holding the ball too long, but not stepping up in the pocket. Baylor would rush 3 and if the OT's pushed the DE's wide, Sam would panic instead of stepping up in the pocket and delivering a throw. If a team drops 8, you aren't going to have guys open early.

You saw a pocket? I will have to watch again.

On second thought, nevermind. I could not suffer it again.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

Unless an insider spills the beans, we probably will never know what happened in the locker room during that week. Whatever that was, it goes to the top of the issues list.

I do not think it is a locker room issue as much as a practice field and maybe a late game fatigue issue.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

I’ll add that I also think at least two of our starting five OLs will be playing on Sunday. Cosmi and one other...

It certainly was at ISU and last weekend, and that is almost entirely on Herman and Beck.

Cosmi has regressed from an early draftee to an average tackle. Kerstetter has the best head, but I do not know if he will be taken when his time is up.

I think next year's OL takent will be better. Then we will see how Hand's coaching will go. He is a good coach, but I do not know if the whole line is listening well enough anymore.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

As a team I stand by my opinion, ... Quit drinking the orange koolaid, there is trouble on the 40 acres.

Well, firstly you are not a "team."

Secondly, you're delusional to think we do not have any good players.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

If the defender doesn't go in so high and trying to take down the bigger guy by grabbing him, he probably doesn't get stiff armed.

The defender (Green?) went in horizontally to the runner's waist, hence the downward stiff arm.

The runner had all the leverage.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

This whole team stinks. From the top all the way down to the towel boy.

I think that is your towel you are smelling.

 

[Statalyzer]

But lately the lower stars seem to be developing into better players. Again, Conner Williams and Cosmi are perfect examples.

I would have agreed about Cosmi back in September. I am less sure now.

 

[Austin_Bill]

Oh and nice shooting Tex is from Ghost Busters, Bill. You quoted Bill Murray in your joke earlier.

Yea, I caught that.

Part of the problem in these last two games is that Sam is a little deflated and uninspired when it comes to the passing game. He probably feels it's all out of sync and that's why he is hanging on to the ball too long. It's a lack of confidence in the scheme. We desperately need a new offensive coordinator, some new light. LSU got it this year, we can do the same.

Didn't watch the game but I caught some of the replay. Unless Sam is doing a hot read, he needs more than 3 seconds to get rid of the ball. He wasn't getting it. If anything right now we are using a multiple read offense and that requires time. We aren't doing max protects

Exactly what I have been saying about injuries on defense. Absolutely abhorrent "technique" here. He makes no attempt to go "across the bow" like I learned back in the 70s. A grab *** attempt at a tackle. Then, he goes down on his shoulder.

Anyway, is anyone else sick and tired of hearing how Texas is the most physical team and trains harder and more physically than anyone else? Does Baylor look intimidated by the physical Texas play here? I don't see it.

I said after Year 1 that over training can cause injuries, Yancy is getting results but he is leaving these guys too fatigued to perform and when they do they are getting injuries. Shoulder injuries aside, you really can't do anything about those except put more emphasis on the back of the shoulder. Knee injuries are going to happen. Generally when you are talking about muscle pulls, ankle injuries these happen because of fatigue and over working these muscle groups.

A proper athletic workout is a phase workout where you ramp up intensity and ramp it down. These guys should have been ramping up during the summer and only doing work to maintain what they got during the season.

But what do I know, I stopped working out in the late 90's.

 

[dukesteer]

A proper athletic workout is a phase workout where you ramp up intensity and ramp it down. These guys should have been ramping up during the summer and only doing work to maintain what they got during the season.

But what do I know, I stopped working out in the late 90's.

I’ve said it before and it’ll probably sound strange but I believe that swimming should be considered as part of the regimen. There may be no better way to counteract muscle tightening. Regardless, I believe that over muscled athletes are more prone to injury.

 

[zuckercanyon]

Cosmi has regressed from an early draftee to an average tackle. Kerstetter has the best head, but I do not know if he will be taken when his time is up.

I think next year's OL takent will be better. Then we will see how Hand's coaching will go. He is a good coach, but I do not know if the whole line is listening well enough anymore.

so, 2 out of 5 is what you're saying.....

 

[MajesticII]

Hand put together some excellent offensive lines at Auburn. In fact, he won the national OL coach of the year. Our OL improved from around the worst in college football under the Charlie regime to a pretty good OL by about the 3rd to 4th game this season. Then they appeared to regress.

Below are some possible explanations for the apparent decline mid-to-late season:

1. Hand is doing fine. It's mainly Beck and Herman's fault. We're too predictable in our play calling. Only supermen can repeatedly block effectively when the other team knows what's coming.
2. The WRs aren't getting open. Sam has to scramble after a while frequently so he gets sacked a lot.
3. Our OGs need work on picking up the (delayed) blitzes and loop around stunts. Braun and Angilau are brutes at run blocking, but have a hard time seeing the (delayed) blitzes and loop around stunts and picking them up. Everyone figured this out by mid-season, so--of course--we're seeing lots of (delayed) blitzes and loop around stunts.
4. (i) OU's Gallimore and (ii) WV's Stills are 2 BAMFs who were way too tough for us to block effectively.
5. Cosmi is good, but let's just say we don't have to worry about him leaving early for the NFL anymore. Our expectations were unrealistic. He has 2 more years.
6. Hand excels at teaching OL in run-first schemes like at Auburn. Wrong league for that.
7. S&C has actually bulked up our OL too much. They'd be better at around 10 lbs lighter or so. Not enough quickness or flexibility.

I've heard Auburn was glad to get rid of Hand.
Some Auburn fans' posts:
" Watch how the OTs performed under Hand. The last two games they looked like matadors. Another problem with Hand is how he handled injuries on the OL. Instead of having a backup prepared to play if a OL went down, he would reshuffle the entire line to make adjustment. The OL continuity went out the window every time he did it."
"Only Florida gave up more sacks this year."
"Look at what he did at Penn St. They were thrilled when he left for AU and AU fans were scratching their heads."
"Did you see our offensive line the last two seasons? How many sacks did we give up against Clemson and UCF? I’m pretty sure it was in the double digits. Did you see how bad his OL was at Penn State? Any hire would be an upgrade."
Sounds like Hand isn't really very good.
Stats for Hand's OLs over the years :

2013 Vanderbilt- Tackles for Loss Allowed Ranking (70)
Sacks Allowed Ranking (96)

2014 Penn State- Tackles for Loss Allowed Ranking (118)
Sacks Allowed Ranking (119)

2015 Penn State- Tackles for Loss Allowed Ranking (111)
Sacks Allowed Ranking (111)

2016 Auburn- Tackles for Loss Allowed Ranking (56)
Sacks Allowed Ranking (27)

2017 Auburn- Tackles for Loss Allowed Ranking (90)
Sacks Allowed Ranking (100)