Seattle4UT
1,000+ Posts
I was expecting a much closer game vs Oklahoma. Can anyone shed some light on Texas' performance, especially those that attended the game at the FEC?
Seattle
Seattle
OUch!
- Thread starter Seattle4UT
- Start date
jerwilliamz
25+ Posts
Texas could not answer the Paris twins inside. They could not stop Robinson from penetrating. The referees would not call any fouls on the two Paris girls all night. I did not like how the game was called.
True2Horns
250+ Posts
Coach G, as quoted on texassports.com:
Rexy
1,000+ Posts
Yes to the offensive efficiency gap - not gonna win many games when you are shooting in the 30's and the opponent is shooting in the 50's percentage-wise.
Actually, there was a time that we were shooting 28% and OU was shooting 67%.
I was disappointed in our ability to stop the dribble penetration - we did a good job on Riley - not sure why we had so much trouble today.
Actually, there was a time that we were shooting 28% and OU was shooting 67%.
I was disappointed in our ability to stop the dribble penetration - we did a good job on Riley - not sure why we had so much trouble today.
Being at the game, I thought the Paris twins ONCE AGAIN got away with murder. Because of that, they took out our inside game almost entirely. Add to that our silly mistakes - most likely from frustration- and the game got away from us. We had it all tied up in the second half and then 5 mins later they were up by almost 20...that is a lack of focus and drive on our part. EBay and Britt seem to both be having trouble with their shooting. Kat Nash was terrific getting to the ball but everytime she went up, one of the big girls literally beat her down. We had to be the faster team today and either Carla or Britt had to go on a shooting run (like OKState's Riley and Baylor's Tisdale did to OU) for us to win. Neither happened. We are a very good team...just not great. Today, OU was the better team.
True2Horns
250+ Posts
Seattle4UT
1,000+ Posts
Yes, I expected this team to play a close game to OU. Baylor destroyed OU in Norman, and Texas literally played it on Baylor at Waco! And when you play at home, there should be no reason why the home team shouldn't be able to play competitively.
Today's game is frustrating no doubt. It really makes you wonder why this class was touted #1 in 2005. The team is good. Are they great? Let the record speak for itself.
Hook 'Em
Seattle
Today's game is frustrating no doubt. It really makes you wonder why this class was touted #1 in 2005. The team is good. Are they great? Let the record speak for itself.
Hook 'Em
Seattle
Salt City Sooner
100+ Posts
Not meaning to nitpick, as Baylor was definitely the better team vs. OU that day, but IMO, destroyed is a bit too strong of a word in describing a game that was a 1 possession game with 3 minutes to go. They were better in closing time, no doubt, but that was a very competitive game for the vast majority of the day.
orangehoops
100+ Posts
courtney paris with eight blocked shots and a verticle that you can barely slide a credit card under. a few well-timed head fakes and she's on the bench most of the game in foul trouble. we'll learn.
LostinTime
25+ Posts
It was a butt kicking . Gonna be a long year.
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
Courtney Paris plays with a different set of rules than everyone else on the floor from either team, it's just ludicrous. Save that crap for the NBA. Thankfully I still don't see it much in college - Kevin Durant and J.J. Redick are the only guys who I can think of who got that type of star treatment on the men's side anyway. I've noticed sometimes in the NBA an offensive player will drive between an star and a role player and get fouled and the refs almost always give the lesser-known guy the foul no matter who actually did it. That happened twice with Courtney (once they gave the foul she committed to Ashley instead, I really thought Ashley was held to the same rules as the rest of the players). The funniest part was when Courtney just lost her balance and fell over backwards and somebody for Texas was called for a push.
OU as a team wasn't getting calls, but Courtney really was. Mostly (despite some unwarranted boos from our crowd) the other 9 players on the court were officiated well. I can think of one travel for each team that was missed; a time the ball hit first Ashley Paris, then Aubrey Cook, then Kat Nash, then the floor out-of-bounds, and we got the ball (the astounding thing is the ref had a perfect angle on all this; and the play where Ashley Lindsay picked up a loose ball and then Jenna Plumley ran into her knees which forced her to lose the ball. I can only guess the refs were consulting the rulebook to determine whether that counts as a forced fumble AND a sack, or just a forced fumble.
Speaking of Plumley, what happened to her? She was really good last year. Now she just goes around fouling people on defense and falling to the floor and giving the refs the "come on, call something" look on offense.
I'd heard that OU was worse this year because of a lack of outside shooting, so they can't pull off the "throw to CP, CP passes to open wing, hit three" with any consistency. However, their guards and forwards are much better than last year at driving, which more than makes up for the lack of 3s because now they can create shots on their own instead of relying on the D double-teaming a post. So, guarding Courtney without a double-team no longer takes away opportunites for OU's backcourt to score.
The funny thing is we seemed to run much better offensive sets than OU. They were scoring a bunch of 1-on-1 individual plays, either throwing into one of the Parises and standing and watching a post move for a score, or else 4 people watching while one person drove all the way in for a score. However, all our ball movement didn't help us because we couldn't dribble-penetrate, and also we are just a very bad passing team. Not so much at recognizing where to pass it to, but just as getting the ball quickly where we want to. The right pass either takes too long to get there, is recognized just too late, or else is just plain inaccurate and misses the target. Also, we don't have enough offensive threats. We have Ashley making post moves, Brittainey driving, and Kat/EW shooting threes. Carla did score double figures but wasn't much of a threat - she seems a step slower than last year. I know her shoulder might still be bothering her, but she seems to not be as fast or as quick as last year.
EBay is still playing great defense and I still compare her to Bruce Bowen in that having either on the court is like playing 4 on 5 on offense. The difference is the Spurs have 3 consistent high scores out there and don't need Bowen to score. We don't have that luxury. She's to shoot or drive some just so the defense can't sag 10 feet away and make it tougher on the rest of the team.
Our big run came near the beginning of the 2nd half, for two reasons. First, Ashley Lindsey started using her quickness and shooting range against the twins and I think went 6 of 7 in that span. Second, we started fastbreaking and caught OU sometimes napping and sometimes just unable to keep up. Then Ashley went to the bench AND we stopped running for some reason, and our offense went stone cold.
The fastbreak was key even when OU got back well and we had a 3 on 3 situation or something, because one of those 3 for OU was never Courtney or Ashley which opened things up for our guards (now if we could just stop missing open layups!!!!!!). That shouldn't be that big of a deal because we go up against 6'3" / 6'4" posts with better ups on a routine basis. But CP has the psychological edge on us. Players come up on her and instead of shooting quickly in the case of guards, or just going right into her and jumping as high as possible and releasing the shot at the apex for the forwards, we get scared and pump the shot, often in midair. This isn't a good fake because it results in our player shooting on the way down, which is much easier to block. If we don't do that, we avoid a good shot altogether and jump-stop instead, followed by a couple of ball fakes. She doesn't go for them, and then the shot gets stuffed.
I'm not saying CP is an overrated defender at all, for any OU fans who show up here, I'm just saying if we stopped being intimidated by her, we'd do a lot better. I actually do think her rebounding is a bit overrated though, which sounds crazy to say, but remember she rarely, on offense or defense, strays more than 5 feet from the rim, and the ratio of rebounds she gets vs the Texas player closest to her gets is pretty even. For every rebound she pulls down, she gives up one to an opponent who just outjumped her or outran her to the ball.
To win in Norman, we're going to have to pass a lot better, and ball on-ball defense against their guards much better. Of course, the main concern right now is to beat A&M and Iowa State and company, not to beat OU again. We'll still have to do the same things better and I still hope we try fastbreaking these other teams as well, it seems the best way to overcome our lack of 3-point ability.
OU as a team wasn't getting calls, but Courtney really was. Mostly (despite some unwarranted boos from our crowd) the other 9 players on the court were officiated well. I can think of one travel for each team that was missed; a time the ball hit first Ashley Paris, then Aubrey Cook, then Kat Nash, then the floor out-of-bounds, and we got the ball (the astounding thing is the ref had a perfect angle on all this; and the play where Ashley Lindsay picked up a loose ball and then Jenna Plumley ran into her knees which forced her to lose the ball. I can only guess the refs were consulting the rulebook to determine whether that counts as a forced fumble AND a sack, or just a forced fumble.
Speaking of Plumley, what happened to her? She was really good last year. Now she just goes around fouling people on defense and falling to the floor and giving the refs the "come on, call something" look on offense.
I'd heard that OU was worse this year because of a lack of outside shooting, so they can't pull off the "throw to CP, CP passes to open wing, hit three" with any consistency. However, their guards and forwards are much better than last year at driving, which more than makes up for the lack of 3s because now they can create shots on their own instead of relying on the D double-teaming a post. So, guarding Courtney without a double-team no longer takes away opportunites for OU's backcourt to score.
The funny thing is we seemed to run much better offensive sets than OU. They were scoring a bunch of 1-on-1 individual plays, either throwing into one of the Parises and standing and watching a post move for a score, or else 4 people watching while one person drove all the way in for a score. However, all our ball movement didn't help us because we couldn't dribble-penetrate, and also we are just a very bad passing team. Not so much at recognizing where to pass it to, but just as getting the ball quickly where we want to. The right pass either takes too long to get there, is recognized just too late, or else is just plain inaccurate and misses the target. Also, we don't have enough offensive threats. We have Ashley making post moves, Brittainey driving, and Kat/EW shooting threes. Carla did score double figures but wasn't much of a threat - she seems a step slower than last year. I know her shoulder might still be bothering her, but she seems to not be as fast or as quick as last year.
EBay is still playing great defense and I still compare her to Bruce Bowen in that having either on the court is like playing 4 on 5 on offense. The difference is the Spurs have 3 consistent high scores out there and don't need Bowen to score. We don't have that luxury. She's to shoot or drive some just so the defense can't sag 10 feet away and make it tougher on the rest of the team.
Our big run came near the beginning of the 2nd half, for two reasons. First, Ashley Lindsey started using her quickness and shooting range against the twins and I think went 6 of 7 in that span. Second, we started fastbreaking and caught OU sometimes napping and sometimes just unable to keep up. Then Ashley went to the bench AND we stopped running for some reason, and our offense went stone cold.
The fastbreak was key even when OU got back well and we had a 3 on 3 situation or something, because one of those 3 for OU was never Courtney or Ashley which opened things up for our guards (now if we could just stop missing open layups!!!!!!). That shouldn't be that big of a deal because we go up against 6'3" / 6'4" posts with better ups on a routine basis. But CP has the psychological edge on us. Players come up on her and instead of shooting quickly in the case of guards, or just going right into her and jumping as high as possible and releasing the shot at the apex for the forwards, we get scared and pump the shot, often in midair. This isn't a good fake because it results in our player shooting on the way down, which is much easier to block. If we don't do that, we avoid a good shot altogether and jump-stop instead, followed by a couple of ball fakes. She doesn't go for them, and then the shot gets stuffed.
I'm not saying CP is an overrated defender at all, for any OU fans who show up here, I'm just saying if we stopped being intimidated by her, we'd do a lot better. I actually do think her rebounding is a bit overrated though, which sounds crazy to say, but remember she rarely, on offense or defense, strays more than 5 feet from the rim, and the ratio of rebounds she gets vs the Texas player closest to her gets is pretty even. For every rebound she pulls down, she gives up one to an opponent who just outjumped her or outran her to the ball.
To win in Norman, we're going to have to pass a lot better, and ball on-ball defense against their guards much better. Of course, the main concern right now is to beat A&M and Iowa State and company, not to beat OU again. We'll still have to do the same things better and I still hope we try fastbreaking these other teams as well, it seems the best way to overcome our lack of 3-point ability.
texfiter
100+ Posts
Interesting observations re: the Paris twins. Listening to it on Internet radio, I didn't realize they only played the entire game almost foul free. I also love Coach G's understated observation. Craig Way, who obviously sees through burnt-orange glasses at times, was irrate in his criticism of one official and he called him/her "horrible." Not implied, but outright.
That said, it seems we still struggled to answer the opposing team's run by either scoring or getting to the foul line. Eight or so minutes at the end of a game without a basketball can't all be on the officiating.
That said, it seems we still struggled to answer the opposing team's run by either scoring or getting to the foul line. Eight or so minutes at the end of a game without a basketball can't all be on the officiating.
OUEngineer
500+ Posts
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
orangehoops
100+ Posts
all this whining and blaming officiating is getting redundant. courtney is a heck of a player. she's wider and stronger than most and uses that size to her advantage. any good player tries to play to their advantages. i mean, you don't see yao ming playing apologizing for being taller than everyone else, do you? what would we have him do? play on his knees to even it out a little?
if courtney were wearing a texas uniform she'd be the best player ever to walk the face of the earth. her statistics are incredible and, i could be wrong, but i'm pretty sure once all is said and done she'll have conference and ncaa records that may never be broken -- at least not anytime in the near future.
having said this, courtney is not without her weaknesses as a player. she's not perfect. expect the texas staff to try and figure out a strategy that exposes her weaknesses. like making it track meet up and down the floor with ashley lindsey.
while d. rob is a good little player, i wouldn't be so quick with the general statement that she's just better than carla. can she do a thing or two better than carla? perhaps. but BETTER all-around than carla? i hardly think so -- it ain't even close. at least not yet.
if courtney were wearing a texas uniform she'd be the best player ever to walk the face of the earth. her statistics are incredible and, i could be wrong, but i'm pretty sure once all is said and done she'll have conference and ncaa records that may never be broken -- at least not anytime in the near future.
having said this, courtney is not without her weaknesses as a player. she's not perfect. expect the texas staff to try and figure out a strategy that exposes her weaknesses. like making it track meet up and down the floor with ashley lindsey.
while d. rob is a good little player, i wouldn't be so quick with the general statement that she's just better than carla. can she do a thing or two better than carla? perhaps. but BETTER all-around than carla? i hardly think so -- it ain't even close. at least not yet.
Agreed Orangehoops - I do'nt recall the Texas fans whining when we had Stacy Stephens' physical presence in the middle. She was hands down the most physical player in the Big 12 during her day.
Courtney is an incredible player. I do agree that it was odd that she only had one foul the entire game as it appeared to me she fouled several times while blocking shots. However, you have to play past that. Until we compete with more physicality, it will be hard to get those calls.
Courtney is an incredible player. I do agree that it was odd that she only had one foul the entire game as it appeared to me she fouled several times while blocking shots. However, you have to play past that. Until we compete with more physicality, it will be hard to get those calls.
Stacey Stephens was always in foul trouble - and maybe she deserved it because she pushed alot with her arms. However, Paris, if you watch her games, should be in constant foul trouble simply by the way she posts up. When other players post up the body to body contact has minimal impact. When Paris posts up she (wisely) uses her size and weight to literally push the opposing player out of the lane. Her body post is equivilent to an actual push and should be called as such.
It shouldn't matter that she pushed with her gut vs. her arms. It's a foul that rarely gets called considering she does it on every trip down. But, as I said before, OU was the better team this week. We lost because our guards needed to be faster and make more shots. That is how Baylor and OK beat OU. Riley and Tisdale ran the hell out of the Paris twins and scored 45 and 35 pts. respectively.
It shouldn't matter that she pushed with her gut vs. her arms. It's a foul that rarely gets called considering she does it on every trip down. But, as I said before, OU was the better team this week. We lost because our guards needed to be faster and make more shots. That is how Baylor and OK beat OU. Riley and Tisdale ran the hell out of the Paris twins and scored 45 and 35 pts. respectively.
TempestHorn
500+ Posts
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
I haven't seen enough of Danielle to make a judgment on the overall skill of her vs Carla, but Danielle certainly outplayed her this particular game.
I don't see what Stacey Stephens has to do with this. Yes, she was strong. Yes, she was very aggressive and it made other teams' fans upset at times. I think their complaints about her size were mostly unfounded - she was 6'1", which not only is not very tall for a center on a top team but also results in less weight for the same build. If the 10 lbs per inch estimate is accurate, she had around 30 lbs less of a size advantage than CP assuming identical builds (which isn't even true since Stacey is thinner as well). She couldn't just push people around - except for really thin posts like Cisti Greenwalt - because she just wasn't that much bigger than they were all things considered. She used her strength and size well for positioning of course, but she couldn't just rely on that.
Being strong or aggressive isn't my complaint. Kindra Wecker is my favorite non-Texas female athlete and she was very agressive, possibly more so than Stacey or CP (although when a G/F is aggressive it doesn't get noticed as much as when a post is doing it unless said G/F is playing dirty). I never saw her get star treatment though. Never really saw Stacey get it either.
It is too bad she and Courtney never faced each other - it would have been quite a fun matchup to watch. Stacey would have been able to guard her well despite the size difference, I think, judging by how Tiffany Jackson was able to do. With her low center of gravity I think she'd keep CP off the offensive boards - but Stacey wasn't very laterally quick and I think CP would do likewise to her. Stacey had good ups so I doubt she'd get her shots blocked, but she also seemed to have a weakness of falling for good ball fakes. Courtney rarely has needed to use a shot fake so it's anyone's guess as to what would happen there. The overall edge might well end up being whoever was able to pass better out of the post that particular game and thus keep more defense help farther away.
I think the single best advantage of having someone like Stacey Stephens to face CP is that she wouldn't be intimidated at all. As I mentioned before, most of our players were scared around her and ended up trying so hard to not get blocked they actually increased the chances of it happening as well as decreasing their chances to make the shot if it didn't get blocked.
I don't see what Stacey Stephens has to do with this. Yes, she was strong. Yes, she was very aggressive and it made other teams' fans upset at times. I think their complaints about her size were mostly unfounded - she was 6'1", which not only is not very tall for a center on a top team but also results in less weight for the same build. If the 10 lbs per inch estimate is accurate, she had around 30 lbs less of a size advantage than CP assuming identical builds (which isn't even true since Stacey is thinner as well). She couldn't just push people around - except for really thin posts like Cisti Greenwalt - because she just wasn't that much bigger than they were all things considered. She used her strength and size well for positioning of course, but she couldn't just rely on that.
Being strong or aggressive isn't my complaint. Kindra Wecker is my favorite non-Texas female athlete and she was very agressive, possibly more so than Stacey or CP (although when a G/F is aggressive it doesn't get noticed as much as when a post is doing it unless said G/F is playing dirty). I never saw her get star treatment though. Never really saw Stacey get it either.
It is too bad she and Courtney never faced each other - it would have been quite a fun matchup to watch. Stacey would have been able to guard her well despite the size difference, I think, judging by how Tiffany Jackson was able to do. With her low center of gravity I think she'd keep CP off the offensive boards - but Stacey wasn't very laterally quick and I think CP would do likewise to her. Stacey had good ups so I doubt she'd get her shots blocked, but she also seemed to have a weakness of falling for good ball fakes. Courtney rarely has needed to use a shot fake so it's anyone's guess as to what would happen there. The overall edge might well end up being whoever was able to pass better out of the post that particular game and thus keep more defense help farther away.
I think the single best advantage of having someone like Stacey Stephens to face CP is that she wouldn't be intimidated at all. As I mentioned before, most of our players were scared around her and ended up trying so hard to not get blocked they actually increased the chances of it happening as well as decreasing their chances to make the shot if it didn't get blocked.
madscientist
1,000+ Posts
Lots of other teams did complain about Stacy Stephens' physical play. that is my point. And you most definitely underestimate her strength. She was very very strong and while listed at 6'1" was barely 6 feet even.
I never said she only had physical strength. She was mobile and gutsy. She put this program on her back and brought it back to prominance from the ashes if you will. A blue collar physical player the likes of which we have not seen in quite a while.
Here's hoping we get Kelsey Bone.
I never said she only had physical strength. She was mobile and gutsy. She put this program on her back and brought it back to prominance from the ashes if you will. A blue collar physical player the likes of which we have not seen in quite a while.
Here's hoping we get Kelsey Bone.
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
I never said she didn't have exceptional strength. My point was that she didn't have exceptional size or weight and couldn't just overpower defenders with mass. More like a Malone strong than an O'Neal strong.
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