"I feel like, regardless, if you are committed or not, you should be allowed to take visits and official visits to other colleges because, what happens your freshman and sophomore year if you are at a university and you didn't take those visits?" Knox said. "You might have second thoughts or whatever. If you went on those visits you get to decide what school is best for you so you can never have second thoughts." Sorry no linky but the source is ESPN
OL Demetrius Knox isn't happy
- Thread starter swc fan
- Start date
He's not thinking that through. A lot changes in two years time. Chemistry on a team, coaches, staff, lots can change. So the place he visited when they have their best behavior and sell job going on can be a different thing all together two years later. Dumb comment.
You can transfer if you are willing to sit out a year, there are options. But as an adult, even a young one, you have to make decisions and live with them until you decide it's time to change them.
Most guys are not allowed to sleep with several women in a month to figure out who he wants to marry. He isn't allowed to shop around, keeping options open...at least not by the woman he's not allowed. None of this what if I want to go elsewhere in two years.
No dude, get the divorce, take the hit and move on. Or work things out.
You can transfer if you are willing to sit out a year, there are options. But as an adult, even a young one, you have to make decisions and live with them until you decide it's time to change them.
Most guys are not allowed to sleep with several women in a month to figure out who he wants to marry. He isn't allowed to shop around, keeping options open...at least not by the woman he's not allowed. None of this what if I want to go elsewhere in two years.
No dude, get the divorce, take the hit and move on. Or work things out.
D
dillohorn
Guest
Wants to have his cake and eat it too. Commit means commit.
If Mack Brown was seen as a dynamic coach like Nick Saban or Urban Myer then we wouldn't even be discussing stuff like this. Mack lost the buzz... if he gets it back then he'll have a line of young men out his door wanting to commit and honor the commitment. Without the buzz you get this... we can lecture the high school kids all we want but winning like sales solves all problems.
Horns11
10,000+ Posts
"Most guys are not allowed to sleep with several women in a month to figure out who he wants to marry."
This is such a stupid rhetorical leap that it doesn't warrant discussion.
The semantics of the term "committed" seems to be throwing a lot of people off. When choosing a college, perhaps "most likely to attend" would be a better way to say it? When a 17- or 18-year-old gives a "commitment," that's just about as likely as they're "committed" to doing homework or "committed" to go with someone to the prom. People need to distance themselves from the term "committed" and get over it.
Hardly anyone who posts here had one and only one college choice. If so, good for you. I never seriously considered other universities, but if one of them had thrown $100K at me to attend there, I might have changed my "commitment." Just because these kids play a sport doesn't mean that they should follow the semantics of the fans of the school they originally commit to. Coaches sure as hell don't follow through with it.
This is such a stupid rhetorical leap that it doesn't warrant discussion.
The semantics of the term "committed" seems to be throwing a lot of people off. When choosing a college, perhaps "most likely to attend" would be a better way to say it? When a 17- or 18-year-old gives a "commitment," that's just about as likely as they're "committed" to doing homework or "committed" to go with someone to the prom. People need to distance themselves from the term "committed" and get over it.
Hardly anyone who posts here had one and only one college choice. If so, good for you. I never seriously considered other universities, but if one of them had thrown $100K at me to attend there, I might have changed my "commitment." Just because these kids play a sport doesn't mean that they should follow the semantics of the fans of the school they originally commit to. Coaches sure as hell don't follow through with it.
notanative
1,000+ Posts
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
Texdoc
500+ Posts
Sorry 11, but it means what it means & commited does not mean "most likely to attend" except for people that don't intend to keep their word.
Most likely to attend would be equivalent to "They are my current leader", & with that comment you are allowed to keep visiting under Mack's policy.
HOOK 'EM,
Texdoc
Most likely to attend would be equivalent to "They are my current leader", & with that comment you are allowed to keep visiting under Mack's policy.
HOOK 'EM,
Texdoc
Horns11
10,000+ Posts
"Also, the meaning of the word commitment doesn't change with the situation in which it is used."
Wrong.
The marriage/dating example refers to the obligation of remaining monogamous, whereas the college athletics example (like we even need to have this argument) refers to a pledge or assurance. People can change their ideas about what is best for them all the time. This is purely a semantics thing.
While I agree that a 17-year-old (or even 16-year-old for some of the recent kids we've been nabbing) shouldn't bother committing if they're not intent on attending there, it's hypocritical to say that incoming high school juniors who haven't stepped foot on a college campus should be held to a higher standard than the coaches who recruit them. Or even any other high schooler that wants to change his/her mind and head somewhere else.
"That may be true, but if your college choice was tied to a scholarship and related benefits and you committed, and that college set aside 'one' to support their side of the bargain, would you feel differently?"
We didn't seem to have a problem "finding one" for kids who reneged on their "commitments" to other schools, like LSU and Washington State. So no, I don't feel differently about it. If Texas got in a tizzy over "their" scholarship money because another school offered me more, that wouldn't harm Texas or my feelings at all.
Wrong.
The marriage/dating example refers to the obligation of remaining monogamous, whereas the college athletics example (like we even need to have this argument) refers to a pledge or assurance. People can change their ideas about what is best for them all the time. This is purely a semantics thing.
While I agree that a 17-year-old (or even 16-year-old for some of the recent kids we've been nabbing) shouldn't bother committing if they're not intent on attending there, it's hypocritical to say that incoming high school juniors who haven't stepped foot on a college campus should be held to a higher standard than the coaches who recruit them. Or even any other high schooler that wants to change his/her mind and head somewhere else.
"That may be true, but if your college choice was tied to a scholarship and related benefits and you committed, and that college set aside 'one' to support their side of the bargain, would you feel differently?"
We didn't seem to have a problem "finding one" for kids who reneged on their "commitments" to other schools, like LSU and Washington State. So no, I don't feel differently about it. If Texas got in a tizzy over "their" scholarship money because another school offered me more, that wouldn't harm Texas or my feelings at all.
OrangeClad
250+ Posts
Regardless of the circumstance in which it is used, relationship commitments typically involve at least two parties who are "committing" something to each other. The level of "commitment" is reciprocal. 11's argument might not hold a lot of water, but it would be much closer to it if he (and perhaps he does) felt perfectly okay with schools pulling scholarship offers from recruits whenever they could get a better player. Tommy Tuberville certainly agrees with 11. He went to Cincy and pulled the scholarship offers of several athletes a month or so before signing day and left them with no where to go and a very short time to resurrect their recruiting momentum. We could refer to that kind of commitment as "Plan to allow you to attend our university". It should work both ways the same, whichever way that is.
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
I think this no visit stuff is going to hurt Mack in the end. I do not mind if recruits take official visits to other schools so long as they take them earlier and they do not take them after their officialmTexas visit. taking a visit to Ala in late Jan is ridiculous.
notanative
1,000+ Posts
Lake_Travis_Horn
500+ Posts
majorwhiteapples
5,000+ Posts
I applied to four schools, very much like a kid being recruited.
I received my UT and AM admission almost immediately.
I received my Stanford humiliation letter.
I received my ASU admission letter later.
I didn't even apply to Tech and they sent me an acceptance letter.
I narrowed my choices to Texas and AM. Sent a check to Texas for my dorm, I was committed with only having set foot on campus at Texas and AM one time each. If I would have changed schools I could have and accepted the penalty.
If the kid gets hot boxed, and committs, he committs, if he doesn't the offer may or may not be there in a couple of months. That is his choice and that is life, I think it is a valuable life lesson. If you are not sure, don't committ or ask for a specific period of time to consider the offer.
I received my UT and AM admission almost immediately.
I received my Stanford humiliation letter.
I received my ASU admission letter later.
I didn't even apply to Tech and they sent me an acceptance letter.
I narrowed my choices to Texas and AM. Sent a check to Texas for my dorm, I was committed with only having set foot on campus at Texas and AM one time each. If I would have changed schools I could have and accepted the penalty.
If the kid gets hot boxed, and committs, he committs, if he doesn't the offer may or may not be there in a couple of months. That is his choice and that is life, I think it is a valuable life lesson. If you are not sure, don't committ or ask for a specific period of time to consider the offer.
Brad Austin
2,500+ Posts
The views of this guy certainly reflect the selfish, cake and eat it too attitudes of young people. Wow and I'm only 38 and saying that. lol The point here is that schools have limit rules, etc. So there has to be some sort of understood structure in the process and schools need to have an idea of what they have at that point in the process, and what they still need.
If recruits adopt this guy's attitude and play the whole "committed but ultimately keeping my options open as possible" game, they truly have no idea the monster they are creating. When this starts to be the norm and verbal commitments overwhelmingly adapt into nothing more than a favorite preference at the time, schools will begin to commit to recruits yet also keep their options open and also recruit fall-backs.
It's guaranteed teams will begin to over-recruit past their numbers and then at the very end cut the lesser kids from their commit list. Basically it's just gonna be everyone looking out for number one and screwing over the other party whenever it fits their best interest. That's why there are such critical traits as honor, commitment, and having a word...without those things it leads to deception and no accountability.
When we are dealing with full rides and limited scholarships, it is very important to say what you mean and mean what you say. Which is exactly what honorable coaches do. I loved the way Mack flat out said not to commit to us unless you are sure and done being courted. In not so many words he was saying don't be a chicken-****, selfish little punk if you know you are not ready for us to move forward together.
If this guy wants to play that game to such a drastic extent as he is speaking (even beyond joining the roster), schools can and will play it too. How about if they commit a scholarship to this numb nuts and they are the ones that realize they didn't get their investment back and are unhappy. Can the school then morally yank his ship and go find a more deserving replacement?
He is saying he would like to be able to do it if he decides he is unhappy...and would like to be better informed of his options before making the commitment. So what's the difference in the school re-evaluating their commitment to him and yanking it if he's not fulfilling their needs.
Careful what you wish for Dude...if you want to be play the waver, selfish game all the way to signing day and even after you have joined the team (on campus), you will lose. Trust me, multi-million dollar enterprises can be much nastier and deceitful than naive 17 and 18 year olds who think they know it all and hold all the cards...they will lose this game of poker, any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
If recruits adopt this guy's attitude and play the whole "committed but ultimately keeping my options open as possible" game, they truly have no idea the monster they are creating. When this starts to be the norm and verbal commitments overwhelmingly adapt into nothing more than a favorite preference at the time, schools will begin to commit to recruits yet also keep their options open and also recruit fall-backs.
It's guaranteed teams will begin to over-recruit past their numbers and then at the very end cut the lesser kids from their commit list. Basically it's just gonna be everyone looking out for number one and screwing over the other party whenever it fits their best interest. That's why there are such critical traits as honor, commitment, and having a word...without those things it leads to deception and no accountability.
When we are dealing with full rides and limited scholarships, it is very important to say what you mean and mean what you say. Which is exactly what honorable coaches do. I loved the way Mack flat out said not to commit to us unless you are sure and done being courted. In not so many words he was saying don't be a chicken-****, selfish little punk if you know you are not ready for us to move forward together.
If this guy wants to play that game to such a drastic extent as he is speaking (even beyond joining the roster), schools can and will play it too. How about if they commit a scholarship to this numb nuts and they are the ones that realize they didn't get their investment back and are unhappy. Can the school then morally yank his ship and go find a more deserving replacement?
He is saying he would like to be able to do it if he decides he is unhappy...and would like to be better informed of his options before making the commitment. So what's the difference in the school re-evaluating their commitment to him and yanking it if he's not fulfilling their needs.
Careful what you wish for Dude...if you want to be play the waver, selfish game all the way to signing day and even after you have joined the team (on campus), you will lose. Trust me, multi-million dollar enterprises can be much nastier and deceitful than naive 17 and 18 year olds who think they know it all and hold all the cards...they will lose this game of poker, any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Horns11
10,000+ Posts
"So there has to be some sort of understood structure in the process and schools need to have an idea of what they have at that point in the process, and what they still need."
But why does the college's side of the argument merit any precedence over what individuals think is best for themselves? It's just "reverse selfishness." If a DT like Robinson leaves us hanging at the last minute, sure it stings. For Texas coaches/fans. But it's not life-or-death and it's no different than committing 100 percent to a university and then the staff gets turned over. Or your perceived teammates were kicked off the team. If you're in to Hobbes-like social order and the priorities of the group above the individual, then fine. I don't really think that college choice has a lot to do with that.
"It's guaranteed teams will begin to over-recruit past their numbers and then at the very end cut the lesser kids from their commit list."
Yes... this is true. If those lesser kids are cut from top programs and their merits warrant a scholarship elsewhere, then perhaps they should look in to that. Sucks, but when your scholarship is tied to your athletic prowess (or even just perceived, which is tough for 16-year-olds), then maybe you should consider your options when choosing a college. You know... like everyone else who isn't an athlete.
"Which is exactly what honorable coaches do. I loved the way Mack flat out said not to commit to us unless you are sure and done being courted."
Yeah... I'm sure Mack told Perriloux and Robinson and Brantley to not commit until they were sure. You don't turn down 4-5 star talent. His quotes to the press after being spurned many times this recruiting season are just posturing. He espouses the family atmosphere all the time, yet when push comes to shove, he'll take the talent like Joseph and Ramonce and Tyrell Gatewood. Honorable indeed.
"Can the school then morally yank his ship and go find a more deserving replacement?"
I've always been an advocate for this, because scholarships are for a year-by-year basis. Not a 5-year free trip.
But why does the college's side of the argument merit any precedence over what individuals think is best for themselves? It's just "reverse selfishness." If a DT like Robinson leaves us hanging at the last minute, sure it stings. For Texas coaches/fans. But it's not life-or-death and it's no different than committing 100 percent to a university and then the staff gets turned over. Or your perceived teammates were kicked off the team. If you're in to Hobbes-like social order and the priorities of the group above the individual, then fine. I don't really think that college choice has a lot to do with that.
"It's guaranteed teams will begin to over-recruit past their numbers and then at the very end cut the lesser kids from their commit list."
Yes... this is true. If those lesser kids are cut from top programs and their merits warrant a scholarship elsewhere, then perhaps they should look in to that. Sucks, but when your scholarship is tied to your athletic prowess (or even just perceived, which is tough for 16-year-olds), then maybe you should consider your options when choosing a college. You know... like everyone else who isn't an athlete.
"Which is exactly what honorable coaches do. I loved the way Mack flat out said not to commit to us unless you are sure and done being courted."
Yeah... I'm sure Mack told Perriloux and Robinson and Brantley to not commit until they were sure. You don't turn down 4-5 star talent. His quotes to the press after being spurned many times this recruiting season are just posturing. He espouses the family atmosphere all the time, yet when push comes to shove, he'll take the talent like Joseph and Ramonce and Tyrell Gatewood. Honorable indeed.
"Can the school then morally yank his ship and go find a more deserving replacement?"
I've always been an advocate for this, because scholarships are for a year-by-year basis. Not a 5-year free trip.
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
centexorange
1,000+ Posts
This whole thing is getting spread way to wide. What Mack is saying is don't sit here and " COMMIT " to Texas and then look elsewhere. If your not sure then " SAY " your not sure and you would prefer to look elsewhere first.
notanative
1,000+ Posts
When one of your current goals in life is to put Mack Brown down, whatever he says is going to get the negative spin. He says it's a sunny day, and all of a sudden the negative effects of UV rays are his fault.
majorwhiteapples
5,000+ Posts
Arizona State
The school is offering you a free ride to get a degree and possibly play pro ball. How often does Mack Brown of the University of Texas not committ to the student for the duration of his college elegibility? If the University is going to committ to the kid, the kid should show the same respect once he committs.
Hell, I would think more of a kid if he said something like this, Coach Brown, thank you very much for this offer. I will talk it over with my family and consider your offer. I have to consider what is the best plan for me for the next 5 years and really the next 50 years. This is a big decision that will require some time and thought. Please understand that I want to consider all my options and I have should have an answer for you within 30 days, is that an acceptable length of time for you Coach Brown?
The school is offering you a free ride to get a degree and possibly play pro ball. How often does Mack Brown of the University of Texas not committ to the student for the duration of his college elegibility? If the University is going to committ to the kid, the kid should show the same respect once he committs.
Hell, I would think more of a kid if he said something like this, Coach Brown, thank you very much for this offer. I will talk it over with my family and consider your offer. I have to consider what is the best plan for me for the next 5 years and really the next 50 years. This is a big decision that will require some time and thought. Please understand that I want to consider all my options and I have should have an answer for you within 30 days, is that an acceptable length of time for you Coach Brown?
notanative
1,000+ Posts
not a native, I sure didnt take it that way. I think most agree with the new policy that if you are not sure dont commit. If that is his "new" policy, most are all for it. A little defensive are you? If you are looking reasons ti dis mack, I can give you some. The team is undisiplined, unmotivated, cant block, cant tackle, they are soft, coddled, and generally fundamentally weak. He makes excuses for poor tackling by saying the players are afraid to get a penalty?? Really?? Says the LHN is an unfair advantage for opponets. Really?? Have you seen the LHN? All they show is drills. So there are a few reasons to dis mack. Have you ever stop and wondered what Stoops, Myer, Saban, or a few others could have/would have done with the talent mach has brought in? its depressing just to think about it.
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