Oil Profits - Edumacate me

OUBubba,
If I recall, you are in the healthcare industry. Would you support forcing hospitals to lower their revenues/profits for the good of your consumers? Every year there are hundreds of thousands of people that go without care because the doctors/admins/hospitals/nurses, etc charge such huge fees. Every year there are people that file bankruptcy due to medical bills. Do you also think people in the medical field should voluntarily take less compensation so that I can have a lower bill? What i pay for a 15 minute visit to my doctor is obscene in my opinion.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
OUBubba,
If I recall, you are in the healthcare industry. Would you support forcing hospitals to lower their revenues/profits for the good of your consumers? Every year there are hundreds of thousands of people that go without care because the doctors/admins/hospitals/nurses, etc charge such huge fees. Every year there are people that file bankruptcy due to medical bills. Do you also think people in the medical field should voluntarily take less compensation so that I can have a lower bill? What i pay for a 15 minute visit to my doctor is obscene in my opinion.
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Well, we already do that to some extent. I would be fine with a world where we have universal basic coverage and you can buy add on coverage if you wanted it.

Here's an example of what we have now. I've done this example before but I'll do it again for you because you're a cool dude.

Gall bladder removal. Hospital A charges 15,000. Hospital B charges 5,000. Hospital C (rural hospital) charges 12,000. Medicare pays the following: A = 5,200; B = 5,200; C = 4,800. BC/BS pays the following: A = 6,800; B = 6,800; C = 5,800. Private pay is billed charges unless the hospital elects to negotiate and some do, some don't. So some working class contract oil worker goes into the ER and ends up with his gall bladder being taken out he could have a bill for as much as 25,000 due to the ER and the uber diagnostics that they do on almost all ER visits now. The same hospital would get $5-7K if he was a Medicare patient and less if her were a Medicaid patient. This world is sub optimal. There is also some medical debt that you can't discharge. However, even though I'm a tooth challenged Okie, I'm not an expert on bankruptcy laws. Defer to your Trump cabal for that. :)
 
OUBubba said:
Well, we already do that to some extent. I would be fine with a world where we have universal basic coverage and you can buy add on coverage if you wanted it.

Here's an example of what we have now. I've done this example before but I'll do it again for you because you're a cool dude.

Gall bladder removal. Hospital A charges 15,000. Hospital B charges 5,000. Hospital C (rural hospital) charges 12,000. Medicare pays the following: A = 5,200; B = 5,200; C = 4,800. BC/BS pays the following: A = 6,800; B = 6,800; C = 5,800. Private pay is billed charges unless the hospital elects to negotiate and some do, some don't. So some working class contract oil worker goes into the ER and ends up with his gall bladder being taken out he could have a bill for as much as 25,000 due to the ER and the uber diagnostics that they do on almost all ER visits now. The same hospital would get $5-7K if he was a Medicare patient and less if her were a Medicaid patient. This world is sub optimal. There is also some medical debt that you can't discharge. However, even though I'm a tooth challenged Okie, I'm not an expert on bankruptcy laws. Defer to your Trump cabal for that. :)
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ok. that's related to but not directly comparable to what I'm saying. i'm not saying a better healthcare system, or insurance. I'm asking you if YOU think YOU should make less just because your fee imposes a hardship on consumers down the line. If you say "yes" then you would be in the smallest minority ever imaginable. The number of people/investors/companies that ever voluntarily take less profit is infinitesimal. And healthcare is an industry where corporations have gotten very, very fat over the last few decades. And honestly, even though there is not a technical "monopoly" on services, there is a quasi-monopoly in that for many people, time is of the essence and it is either "take what we give you and at our price point, or take nothing at all". So if any industry has "gouging power" healthcare is it. And on top of all of that, healthcare is one of the least transparent industries out there. Very few metrics for a consumer to understand the quality of product they are receiving or understand the price they are paying for it. And even with all of these faults and money grubbing healthcare providers, i would still not support nationalizing healthcare.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
And honestly, even though there is not a technical "monopoly" on services, there is a quasi-monopoly in that for many people, time is of the essence and it is either "take what we give you and at our price point, or take nothing at all".
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The government organizes, manipulates, and restricts healthcare. Unless they want to force you to take something, then they enact executive orders to force people to take jabs. There is some competition within the system. However, all players are controlled by the Federal government medical agencies. It is one of the biggest cartels in the world.

BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
So if any industry has "gouging power" healthcare is it. And on top of all of that, healthcare is one of the least transparent industries out there.
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When you are restricting supply you have to hide what you are doing or people will demand you stop. Healthcare is price gouging if any industry is doing it.

There is actually a for cash surgery center in Oklahoma that is outside the cartel. They charge about 1/10 what others charge. The cartel has attacked them and continues to, in order to remove them as an option. It's despicable.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
ok. that's related to but not directly comparable to what I'm saying. i'm not saying a better healthcare system, or insurance. I'm asking you if YOU think YOU should make less just because your fee imposes a hardship on consumers down the line. If you say "yes" then you would be in the smallest minority ever imaginable. The number of people/investors/companies that ever voluntarily take less profit is infinitesimal. And healthcare is an industry where corporations have gotten very, very fat over the last few decades. And honestly, even though there is not a technical "monopoly" on services, there is a quasi-monopoly in that for many people, time is of the essence and it is either "take what we give you and at our price point, or take nothing at all". So if any industry has "gouging power" healthcare is it. And on top of all of that, healthcare is one of the least transparent industries out there. Very few metrics for a consumer to understand the quality of product they are receiving or understand the price they are paying for it. And even with all of these faults and money grubbing healthcare providers, i would still not support nationalizing healthcare.
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I think health care should be restructured as I said previously. I got a MBA when I got gun shy about Clinton remaking health care in the US during my MHA. Honestly, specialty medicine has priced itself out of a reasonable rate. The doc I work with explained that he could have gone to Northwestern or a state school. He wanted to do primary care and the loan payback at Northwestern would have required him to become a specialist. We are pushing primary care to nursing and the majority of docs are doing specialty care. That's not a good model in the longterm.

If an oil company profited the same $ figure in 2022 that they profited in 2021 there would be no problem. The issue is that they're sitting back and allowing the market to enrich them in "happy accident" mode all at the expense of Americans.
 
Despite the Biden's administrations attempt to distort facts. The cold, unemotional data shows that the US is producing 1.3MMbpd less now than before the pandemic (13MMbpd in Nov 2019 vs 11.7MMbpd in Mar 2022). All the while, demand always keeps increasing.

Its really not that hard. We have less supply and more demand. If Biden wants to get prices down, he should be working with US oil companies to drill baby drill and get that shale production going again. We all know he will never do that.

U.S. Field Production of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels per Day)
 
OUBubba said:
If an oil company profited the same $ figure in 2022 that they profited in 2021 there would be no problem. The issue is that they're sitting back and allowing the market to enrich them in "happy accident" mode all at the expense of Americans.
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Thou shall not covet.
 
OUBubba said:
exxon profits - Google Search

Is it time that we nationalize oil companies so that they'll not price gouge and drive up the price at the pump to get an outcome that they want?

How can an ethical company function in this manner? Oil companies 2022 record profits amid Ukraine war, energy price hike
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You weren't bitching when Exxon lost $22billion in 2020.

Exxon earned $5.5 billion in the first quarter of 2022 and distributed cash to shareholders in the form of dividends and repurchases of $5.8 billion. It doesn't get more ethical than that.
 
UTChE96 said:
Despite the Biden's administrations attempt to distort facts. The cold, unemotional data shows that the US is producing 1.3MMbpd less now than before the pandemic (13MMbpd in Nov 2019 vs 11.7MMbpd in Mar 2022). All the while, demand always keeps increasing.

Its really not that hard. We have less supply and more demand. If Biden wants to get prices down, he should be working with US oil companies to drill baby drill and get that shale production going again. We all know he will never do that.

U.S. Field Production of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels per Day)
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Your chart shows you one thing and me another. It indicates to me that the oil industry is just fine with the status quo and has no interest in missing out on this level of profiteering for the good of the American economy.
 
OUBubba said:
Your chart shows you one thing and me another. It indicates to me that the oil industry is just fine with the status quo and has no interest in missing out on this level of profiteering for the good of the American economy.
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This response is why explaining how the world works to a Lib is useless. The chart does not indicate a "status quo". It indicates an ever-increasing supply both long and short term. It also says nothing about profits, so how could anyone with any sense glean "profiteering" (the Lib word for people voluntarily buying a product from one of many producers of the product) from the chart?

Ultimately, you realize that Liberals are just dumb.
 
iatrogenic said:
You weren't bitching when Exxon lost $22billion in 2020.

Exxon earned $5.5 billion in the first quarter of 2022 and distributed cash to shareholders in the form of dividends and repurchases of $5.8 billion. It doesn't get more ethical than that.
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Hey Hey Hey now. Doesn't fit the narrative. Ban posts like this. Isn't that what the First Amendment is all about??
 
OUBubba said:
Your chart shows you one thing and me another. It indicates to me that the oil industry is just fine with the status quo and has no interest in missing out on this level of profiteering for the good of the American economy.
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Bizarre point. Don't you think producing more oil would help them make more profits? Notice that production was increasing at a faster pace prior to the pandemic even when oil prices were half of where they are today.

One of the main problems is that oil companies are tripping over themselves to lower their CO2 emissions because liberals have been demonizing them for decades. Their focus should be on bringing more production online as quickly as possible. This is analogous to liberals bashing law enforcement for years, pushing to defund the police, electing soft on crime DAs, and then being shocked by a rampant crime wave.
 
OUBubba said:
The doc I work with explained that he could have gone to Northwestern or a state school. He wanted to do primary care and the loan payback at Northwestern would have required him to become a specialist. We are pushing primary care to nursing and the majority of docs are doing specialty care. That's not a good model in the longterm.
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I see this too and agree it's a problem. My father-in-law is an MD, and he doesn't recommend the profession to future generations. Part of his complaint is the hospital has to treat everyone. Taking up space is the same guy for the seventh time looking for opioids which blocks the way for the gunshot victim, who you can guess really needs the ER space.
 
OUBubba said:
The doc I work with explained that he could have gone to Northwestern or a state school. He wanted to do primary care and the loan payback at Northwestern would have required him to become a specialist. We are pushing primary care to nursing and the majority of docs are doing specialty care. That's not a good model in the longterm.
Click to expand...

guy4321 said:
I see this too and agree it's a problem. My father-in-law is an MD, and he doesn't recommend the profession to future generations. Part of his complaint is the hospital has to treat everyone. Taking up space is the same guy for the seventh time looking for opioids which blocks the way for the gunshot victim, who you can guess really needs the ER space.
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Again the problem expressed here is also government intervention. The number of medical schools is restricted in order to restrict the number of doctors in order to keep doctor salaries high. But the constraint on medical schools also increases their cost due to lack of competition. Add on top of that the government loans and now talk of forgiving of loans and you further increase demand for a fixed supply.

The problem is nationalization or government intervention or fascism. The solution as always is free individuals and markets.
 
OUBubba said:
We are pushing primary care to nursing and the majority of docs are doing specialty care. That's not a good model in the longterm.
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I don't know, it worked for generations when grandma and grandpa could be counted on for basic primary care, and you went to the doc (or he came for a house call) if things got serious.
 
My hometown had 4 primary care docs when I was growing up. One was an "urgent" care. You went into the waiting room that was an old living room and you rotated around the room until you were in the chair by his office and he gave you 3-5 minutes before sending you out the door. Now the same town has a 70ish year old doc who can't find anyone to come take on his practice and 3-5 nurse practitioners working in 3 clinics. Less experience for sure.
 
Bubba, you didn't read the article I posted. The disconnect that tweet is describing is due to many refineries being shut down in 2020. Again, the problem was government intervention, not profiteering. The cost is up because supply of gasoline is down or is increasing more slowly than demand is increasing.

You can only make statements like you do if you ignore everything about the situation other than what Marxists say about it.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
I don't know, it worked for generations when grandma and grandpa could be counted on for basic primary care, and you went to the doc (or he came for a house call) if things got serious.
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I remember old doc mitchell saying "That's as loud as you can cry? We had a little girl in here this morning that put you to shame".
 
OUBubba said:
Also, this:

If accurate, something's afoot at the Circle K.
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So you don't think a business should be allowed to charge market price for their product?

I'll let all US business owners know OU Freidman Sooner says they're stealing from the poor hardworking US consumer.
 
Monahorns said:
Bubba, you didn't read the article I posted. The disconnect that tweet is describing is due to many refineries being shut down in 2020. Again, the problem was government intervention, not profiteering. The cost is up because supply of gasoline is down or is increasing more slowly than demand is increasing.

You can only make statements like you do if you ignore everything about the situation other than what Marxists say about it.
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Bullstitt.

The Biden administration certainly did its best to drive oil prices through the roof, and thus to make life more difficult for the average American. In March of this year, the administration issued a decree banning Russian “crude oil and certain petroleum products” from the US. The administration boasted that American consumers would be cut off from 700,000 barrels per day of Russian oil imports. Defenders of this policy lectured Americans on the need for “sacrifice”—by paying higher prices for oil—in order to make Washington's Russophobes happy. This was part of a larger plan to pressure the regimes of the world into cutting Russia off from global markets.

This has certainly succeeded to drive up crude prices above what they would have otherwise been. Fortunately, the plan has also partly failed. China and India have been buying up large amounts of Russian crude ensuring that supply remains in the global market. This means global supplies are not strained as much as would have occurred had the Biden administration’s attempt at isolating Russia succeeded.

But while access to crude has not evaporated as intended by the US regime, refinery capacity continues to lag. This has driven up gasoline prices to higher peaks than crude.
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1. We all but musburger concur that Russia is out of control and needs to be controlled. And, outside of military intervention, the only levers we have are economic. To act as if this "decree" (calling an E.O. a decree highlights bias) is both without merit AND as part of some plan to drive up oil prices independent of Russia is silly.
2. I don't trust anything this opinion writer postulates due to their obvious bias.
 
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