Obama's speech last night.

Wait a second this didn't just pop up here in the last week. ISIS has been working their way from Syria all the way down to Baghdad for the past 9+ months. Where is the grand coalition from Kerry/Obama? What about the UN votes? Are the biggest proponents of the UN not even going to consult with them on this?
 
mrD
I believe you are correct which leaves the non muslim nations where?
If ISIS isn't stopped what is next? We, the rest of the world aren't going to change their mind. They intended that we change ours or die.
ISIS may be a drop today but they will be the whole bucket next year. They have put together a plan that guarantees them money and soon millions of recruits. followers.

Does the non muslim world have the stomach to stop them? So far getting a coalition together to 'manage" them is moxed but better than nothing.
 
ISIS produces nothing. They obtain their strength by theft and contributions from supporting state actors, particularly Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and other Gulf States characterized as US allies.

The key to defeating them is to cut off their finances and access to weapons. The US and probably France and other European countries sell billions of dollars worth of weapons to Islamic states (allies) which foment radical ideology. Much of this eventually gets transferred to radical organizations such as Al Qaeda or ISIS.

Libya and Syria are textbook examples. The US is so obsessed with defeating Russia, weakening Russia's allies, and controlling the resources within the region, that we funded Muslims to overthrow each government. In both cases, the blowback resulted in strengthening radical Islamists and forcing the US to dedicate military resources to foreign entanglements for the long term, whatever that turns out to be.

In Syria, the goal is to oust Assad so that a gas pipeline can flow through Syria, thus enriching countries like Qatar and weaken Russia.

In Libya, China's oil interests were given up and the dollar will continue to be the currency of exchange.

The US interests have nothing to do with radical Islam. Radical Islam is more or less a tool the US uses in order to try to achieve objectives related to empire. Whether or not these objectives are achieved, we wind up dealing with the blowback of dealing with what we helped to create.
 
It seems, from some of the news reports this week end, that the Syrian rebels who want to take down Assad will partner with ISIS who also wants to take down Assad.

So we are going to arm and train the Syrian rebels who will then mix in with ISIS
and then we are going to drop bombs on ISIS ( along with some of the FSA rebels that we have armed and who will likely be pissed at US, even as they take our weapons and aid)
.
Have we thought this through?
 
Mus
Who in the Admin could actually think that 'big"? Certainly not BO.
So far they have bungled nearly everything so now to think they have some grand plan strains credulity.

If that is the real aim I wonder now what BO meant when he told Medevev to tell Putin to wait?
That alert to Putin doesn't seem to square with your theory.
 
So SOSUS Kerry is continuing, essentially, the ISIL is not Islamic mantra. Why won't POTUS or SOSUS be specific why they aren't? Is Apostacy a part of Islam? What is the penalty for Apostacy according to real Muslims vs ISIL?

Do real Muslims want to live under Shari'a law if they had a choice? What about ISIL?

etc etc etc.

How do real Muslims treat people who are non-Muslim? Does it matter what country they are living in as to their treatment of others? How about ISIL? Kuffar?

Are the POTUS and SOSUS trying to convince whom when they say ISIL aren't Islamic? Are either the POTUS or SOSUS authority enough to tell us about who is and isn't Islamic?
The Link
 
Did you notice that David Cameron stated recently that ISIL are "monsters, not islamic" or something to that effect?

Do you think the average American could understand the nuance of the point that both country leaders are trying to make? How do you explain the nuance in a soundbite?

Serious question, why is it important to you for the POTUS or SOSUS to give a speech to explain their stance on religious dogma, particularly Islam?
 
Husker
talk to people around you .Do they think islam is a religion of peace?
All the murders rapes and destruction going on in the ME Africa Phillipines , parts of India etc are being done by perhaps millions of 'islamists" who likely look like face of islam right now to most people.
I understand why BO Cameron and others keep trying to say Islam is a religion of peace and all these islamists are not true muslims.
Actions speak louder than words. What are the actions of the islamists saying right now?
Polls done in muslim countries, even ' moderate' muslims countries like Egypt show majorities of muslims in "moderate' countries think stoning for adultery is ok, think sharia law is desirable.
I don't know if there is a way to separate islamists from moderates. or even how many moderates there really are.

That said I do understand why BO Kerry etc keep trying.
Think anyone believes them?
 
I agree with a lot of your post. It's critical for Muslim leaders to stand up against ISIL. They are doing it albeit not at the level you'd expect. Although I think their statements aren't carrying the media coverage here in the US. Recently, some UK Imam recently declared a fatwah against locals traveling to fight for ISIS.

Last night I watched the HBO documentary on the Nairobi Mall massacre by 4 members of Al Shabab. They profiled multiple people that were involved in trying to save the attendees. A few of the first responders (a cop and a civilian with a licensed gun) were Muslims that went into the mall to help before the Police SWAT and Military went into the mall. Both stated their disdain for Al Shabab's hijacking of the Muslim faith. Even some of the Muslim citizen's that were shot in the attack also stated their disdain for the jihadists. Evidence like this gives me hope that extremism among the Muslim community is a minority of the religion.
 
Husker
It is of course nice that recently a U K Iman declared a fatwah against extremists.
and of course that a few muslims helped non muslims years ago or even last year.
Did anyone listen to the Iman? Has there been a decent sized group of muslims in the UK or here in USA to rise up and maybe even protest against extremists?
In the ' moderate 'muslim countries has there been a loud outcry?
If as many say the extremists are a small % of muslims then why don't the much larger number of muslims speak out over and over and hey!
what about that UK Iman( or an iman in ANY moderate muslom country) instead of issuing a ' strongly worded judgment against the extremist call for all the other muslims to organize and help fight the extremists?

In the 13 years the world has seen the rise of extremists to this new level has there been ONE instance of a Iman calling for moderates to organize and take their peaceful reigion back? why not?

If one or two extremist leaders can create a caliphate with over 30k and counting fighters, amass pretty useable weaponry and hundreds of millions in revenue in a frighteningly short span of time
why can't an equal number of the peaceful muslims do the same to stop the extremists that are " high jacking " their oh so peaceful religion?


actions are speaking pretty loudly.
 
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