Obama's speech last night.

H

Horn6721

Hook'em
I thought it was pretty decisive.
His plan/ policy does require many other nations active roles.
Today the UK foreign Sec said UK would not participate in air strikes over Syria. Germany also said no airstrikes over Syria.
Jordan's Kingdom officials questions arming 'moderate" Syrians believing they are as radical islamists we the ISIS rebels, pointing out the FSA Brigade Commander said his 'army" cooperating with ISIS and Jabbat el-Nusrah. Jordan feels arming so called moderates is just giving arms to ISAS>

But it is a good thing ISIS is not Islamic.

For sure BO has gotten himself and US into a tough spot.
I don't tink there is any way to cleanse the islamists without also killing many other muslims.
If he takes the years he says it will take all we will be doing is recruiting more islamists.

Is there any answer now?
 
I don't think that Winston Churchill could be inspiring if he kept trying to be as PC and not step on anyone's toes as BO was. He was so careful to not offend Islam with that bit about "no religion teaches its followers to kill innocent people", blah, blah, blah.

It's like a Coach Strong giving a speech before the OU game and saying; "most of them are Texans too, so be kind to your brothers".

Fook it. Be a man. Show some passion. Let's kill those MFers before they kill us.
 
"The face of terrorist is not the true faith of Islam. That’s not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don’t represent peace, they represent evil and war." - George W. Bush, 9/17/01The Link
Islam is the predominant religion in the world. The only hope we have to win, or at least diminish the impact, against the radicals is to divide the moderates from the extremists. If we push the moderates towards the extremists then we won't simply be fighting a war in the ME. Bush was smart enough to understand that.
 
My Bush quote was simply to show that the "yippee kai yay motherf#cker" attitude works in hollywood movies but US Presidents should be more nuanced and thoughtful and generally are.
 
Husker
You are correct. a POTUS does need to speak more carefully. Maybe like Bush he could have stuck to the "islam is a religion of peace" bs>It was bs when Bush said it and nothing in all the years has changed that it was bs. In fact it is so much worse now.

But to say ISIS is not Islamic? They and their followers certainly think they are following islam, to the letter.
Why pretend anymore? So we don't offend all those peaceful muslims? What have they done in 13 years to show the world they are against islamists?

So BO calls on Turkey to allow us to use their air bases. Turkey again says no.
Saudi will train 'moderate' Syrian fighters IF We pay for it. Hello NO
Honestly I did think Obama spoke more forcefully last night but he sure hasn't been able to convince many to help stop the islamists raging all over the ME and Africa.
It seems they are more afraid of the religion of peace than they are captivated by BO's charm.
 
What about due process for the Americans that will surely be engaged in the fight against ISIL/ISIS? Maybe just bombing them gets the "coalition of the billing" around that dicey Guantanamo and the future Taliban John Walker scenarios? Dead ******* don't need due process amirite?

The Link
 
Are terrorists that espouse to be Christian but don't really follow the Christian tenants considered "Christians"? I suggest you read this before responding. I'd argue they've bastardized Christianity and their actions are anything but Christian as I know it.

That was the point of Obama stating that. I know many want a President to proclaim that Islam is inherently evil. Fortunately, stereotyping the worlds largest religion like that is something I hope no President does. Even Rick Perry were he to become President isn't that dumb, I hope.
 
brickwall.gif
Husker
I sincerely hope you aren't serious. Who on here wants BO tocall all islam inherently evil?

However all facts considered it is really silly to say the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria ( you know ISIS?) is not Islamic.
Do you think the ' moderate' muslims don't think ISIS is islamic?


Husker I am glad you brought up the KKK. Now tell us what happened to the ones who sought out and killed blacks jews or people who supported them?
How long has it been since an organized group of KKK committed murder?
Who do you think stopped them?( Hint it wasn't muslims)What do you think would happen today in 2014 if a group calling themselves the KKK started going around dragging anyone from their homes and murdering them?
How long has it been since ISIS killed anyone?

Hey Husker you forgot to bring up the Spanish Inquisition or Trorquemada.
whiteflag.gif
 
So there is no sect of Islam that this group belongs? They sure use the terminology of Islam. Shari'a law is typically associated with what religion? Convert to what or die you Kuffar is generally associated with what religion? (or what sect of what religion if you like)

The Link



In reply to:
Click to expand...
 
I'll ask you the same question Zork. Do you consider the Army of God a Christian organization? You know, the anti-abortion group that planted bombs at 7 abortion clinics in 1985 or claimed Eric Rudolph in 1997 when he blew up a nail bomb at a clinic?

How about the Hutaree, a "Christian Patriot" group based in Adrian, MI founded in 2010? You know that group teaches it's members how to build IEDs?

Those are a few examples of a religious ideology being hijacked for purposes ulterior to the religion itself. Does ISIS have a much larger following? Absolutely. Does that mean they are any less a "cult"? No.
 
Hey Zork- Do you wanna go Old Testament Christianity? There are some pretty brutal passages there. In fact, the God of the Old Testament is not a very pleasant God overall. Or do you only ascribe to the softer New Testament?
 
Husker
You are making my point. Did that group in Michigan kill anyone?
No they got caught.
You look pretty silly trying to defend all the millions of islamists in the world by bringing up a few whacked out people or groups that get caught .
I am not sure how you think the millions and millions of islamists all over the world killing and now creating states in the name of Allah are not Islamic.Next you will say there is no connection between islam and sharia law.


There will always be groups pop us who may try to commit crime in the name of Christianity. The real point is THEY WILL NOT SUCCEED>

Answer this question, what do you think would happen if a group of " Christians" started pulling people out of their homes and beheading them in Seattle?

Now answer what has happened in TNTM muslim countries where islamists go in and start killing?

if the ' moderates' do not align with the islamists why haven't they stopped them? If as some say there are millions more 'moderates" why aren't they stopping the radicals?
trying to say whacked out groups who try to use Christianity are the same as islamists is ludicris.
 
I'm just a dude who posts on bbs forums for fun.
The French POV:
The Link

The Saudi POV:The Link

There are many sects within Christianity or claiming to be a part of it. It is not my place to judge them although I'd say I disagree with many of them, not just their actions, if asked.

Violence vs abortion proponents is something I condemn but I'm just one non-cleric man.

The topic is about how the government of the USA, mainly I would guess POTUS Obama and SOSUS Kerry, are going to deal with the sect of Islam that is ravaging a couple of countries. What I believe as an individual is not the topic but nice deflection.

When Obama and Kerry were on the sidelines or at least in the Senate they criticised and offered ideas on how they would do things. Are they doing as they said they would do?
 
Turkey treading to try temperate tautology towards IS?

The Link

Playing both sides or at least not condemning the IS for fear of the Turkish moderate Muslims being shamed or scared into supporting IS or if they support the West and we decline to follow through will leave IS retribution?

Surely Kerry can bring them around?


BTW, the Turks need to know their place in this history and get on board:

The Link

This is interesting:The Link

Reading this it seems that Shia don't necessarily believe that Shiite are Islamic and visa versa. Who determines what sect of what religion is for reals?
 
As a conservative, I can't believe I am saying this, but I think Chris Matthews at MSNBC pretty well nailed it in his assessment of Obama's speech last night. Here it is:

CHRIS MATTHEWS: I heard all the necessary conditions but not the sufficient conditions for defeating ISIS. And I didn't hear in there how we're going to encourage the Arab countries, the Islamic world to go after ISIS. I didn't hear that. I heard air strikes by the United States. I heard military training and support for the Free Syrian Army. I heard vague reference to someone over there flying with us over Syria right now without saying what country that was, what ally that was. Nothing really about the building of a posse. And everyone from David Ignatius and others who really know this region are saying the only way you defeat a cancer like this, like ISIS, is within the Islamic world itself. They must find themselves the strength and the determination to go in and erase this blot on their culture. And I didn't hear in this speech how we're going to do that or if we can even imagine being the leaders of such an effort. Again, I'll say these are necessary steps. They didn't sound sufficient.


http://www.realclearpolitics.Com/video/2014/09/10/chris_matthews_on_obama_speech_i_didnt_hear_how_were_going_to_defeat_isis_didnt_sound_sufficient.html
 
I rarely agree with BO on anything but it does little good to rehash what he should have done even months ago. He didn't.
So now what do we do?
I think BO is proposing all we can And should do until the "peaceful " muslim world steps up.
It is telling that apparently the other muslim nations are more concerned about what ISIS , el Nusrah etc etc etc will do than what the US will do.
If the nations in the region aren't willing to step up I am not sure We can stop this Islamic state or any of the others that will follow.

O wonder what the peaceful muslim nations would do if we waged war on ISIS the way we did on Germany or Japan?
 
I have to say this is probably the second time where I'm near 100% agreement on a major policy speech from Obama.

He laid out four major points:
1) An air campaign, a la Kosovo.
2) Precision quick targeted SOF raids
3) Dedicated clandestine operation with a defined objective to find and kill every ISIL personnel on the planet
4) Importance of a coalition

The critics, right and left, will argue that such an expensive operation will not defeat/destroy ISIL. They may not necessarily be wrong, but eradicating ISIL may not be the only outcome we desire. Despite its name, ISIL isn't some sovereign state authority with territory. They aren't the Viet Cong or the Taliban. As such, a conventional ground offensive and the political objectives associated with controlling territory is not fundamental, in this unique situation, to defeating this threat.

A weaker ISIL, degraded by a relentless 24/7 air campaign, is better than ISIL that's allowed to strengthen. I disagree with Deez. You put as many collection and targeting assets we have there and you kill any tech that moves. If their movement goes covert, then you hunt them down Mossad style everywhere they go. You make joining ISIL a death sentence.

Two words...Indefatigable and Relentless. Hell, that could be the code names for the operation. It's going to be long and expensive (although not as expensive if were in a ground war), but we have to be willing to fight and not let them off ropes even if it goes 15 rounds.
 
On point 4 above, who was in the coalition at present or expected to be in it? Was that outlined in the speech or was it to come later in a grand disclosure by SOSUS Kerry?
 
MrD
Do you think we can really kill enough terrorists ONLY to maybe get the attention of the ' moderate'muslims?
Even when they come here and enjoy our freedoms there doesn't seem to be a significant number who would stand with us against the islamists.
It is disturbing to see the numbers who have gone , got caught trying to go and /or who are speaking out against Us.
yes ISIS is the islamist du jour but it is by far the largest most well funded weaponized and organized. I am not sure right now how it differs from a state.
Over 31,0000 and is only growing
ISIS now is helping Boko Harum establish a caliphate in Africa plus ISIS is also now in Gaza.
I'd say if we could beat ISIS downthe other smaller albeit equally evil groups would be easier to handle.


I am sorry BO let them get this far but I am hoping he means it this time. It is unfortunate we can't get any real help from the so called coalition. We will be doing the airsrikes on our own and we will be paying Saudi a ton of money to train Syrians . Do we really trust that we aren't paying to train them to kill us?
I don't know how this plays out but being cautious and leading from behind won't work this time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Weekly Prediction Contest

* Predict HORNS-AGGIES *
Sat, Nov 30 • 6:30 PM on ABC

Recent Threads

Prediction Results Threads

2024 Schedules

Back
Top