Obamacare is Here to Stay

M

Murphy'sBoy

1,000+ Posts
Whether you like it or not it is here to stay. The Obamacare train has left the building and no amount of symbolic votes or government shutdowns can stop it. There are no more vetoes, supreme court challenges, or legislative votes than can have any effect now. The GOP should accept this as fact and move on to some other issue. No matter how much it hurts some of you guys, you lost this one.
 
There are plenty of members of the Right (especially on this BBS) still fighting over Social Security and Medicare. You never can win with these guys because they reject the basic notions of government and representative democracy.
 
Thankfully there are constitutional mechanisms to change or repeal bad laws. In the cases of ACA, the president himself has changed the law multiple times.

Good thing I can go down to the bar and have a legal drink this afternoon after work. In your world, we would still be under prohibition.
 
Yep, it is the law. With of course any exceptions/exemptions/changes Obama decrees to be necessary to meet his objectives. Only He can be wise enough to know which changes need to be made.
 
The First Bank of the United States is here to stay.

The Glass Steagall Act is here to stay

The Chinese Exclusion Act of of 1882 is here to stay

The Sedition Act of 1918 is here to stay

The anti-Gold Futures act of 1864 is here to stay.

It is stunning to me that certain members if this board, in posturing that an act has been passed and therefore cannot be contested, subsequently stoop to lecture about representative democracy. PasoTex might admit that any law at any time is subject to discussion and repeal. THAT IS REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY!!!!

There is such an ironic doltishness on display from Democrats who claim the very tenets of representative democracy being put on display, i.e. a duly elected Republican majority in the house of representatives acting on their beliefs, somehow represents a threat or challenge to Democracy. WTF is wrong with people. This is how the system was drawn up.
 
I certainly would admit that any law can be repealed. It is, however, outrageous for a small faction of one branch of government to shut down the entire government and default over our sovereign debt in an effort to repeal something. They don't have the votes. The way repeal is supposed to work is to get a bill past both the House and Senate and then either have the President sign or overrule his veto.

I think the original poster postulates that the ACA will not be repealable once it goes into full effect. I suspect he is right for a number of different reasons. The simplest one is that removing the pre-existing condition exclusion only works for insurers provided you make as many as possible obtain insurance.
 
Nothing the Tea Party is doing right now is with the intention of stopping or overturning ObamaCare. It's a boogie man that gets the base excited for the 2016 election. Ted Cruz needs them on his side for that election and is simply leveraging our economy as a toy to entice the Tea Party rebel rousers.

Obama knows it, Harry Reid knows it, multiple R Senators have stated as much. I just hope that even Ted Cruz isn't selfish enough to use our US Credit to serve his own ambitions.
 
I don't think that the Republicans at this point are trying to repeal ACA. I think they are trying to get the individual mandate delayed a year and for Congress and the President to fall under the ACA, Dems think this is to mean repeal.

I also believe that the reason it is tied to the CR is because if they do a clean CR, and then send up the delayed mandate on ACA with a separate measure is because the Senate would not even allow a vote on it.
 
When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws, nor that grievances may not arise, for the redress of which, no legal provisions have been made. I mean to say no such thing. But I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed

- Abraham Lincoln

I opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. It should be repealed and I will vote for its repeal on the Senate floor.

- President Barack Obama

The time has come to repeal 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell.' It is the right thing to do. Every American should have the opportunity to serve their country, regardless of race, sex, creed, or sexual orientation.

- Dianne Feinstein

etc. etc. etc.
 
Then why not let the House vote on the clean CR?

If it is the majority of the House, then why not prove it?

The Senate voted on both versions straight up. Why won't the House?
 
And the number of Republicans who would vote for a clean CR in the House supposedly numbers about 100 (now if a clean version ever comes to the floor it will not get this many votes, but it will pass).

Please lecture me again on civics.

laugh.gif
 
I often wonder if folks on the Right ever read what they link? Actually, I know they don't and I don't really wonder.

From the first cited Real Clear Politics poll:

Obamacare

favor 38%
oppose 39%
oppose because not liberal enough 11%
no opinion 13%

Where do you think those 11% stand on Obamacare? Should they really just be added to the 39%?

Where do think they stand on shutting down the government over the implementation?

brickwall.gif
 
The commies have won. It will be interesting to see where the immigrants will be flooding to 20 years from now. it wont be here.
 
Just like your ***** buddies that were threatening to move during 80's and 2000's. Im gonna choose to stick to the fact that this country corrects its errors.
 
Googled it and found the poll as well as multiple other polls. 100% of the polls indicated disapproval ratings much higher than approval, other than Quinnipac. There was also a clarification that included "too liberal" that would need to be added if you were adding "not liberal enough."

If you do not have insurance, you are probably for it. If you have insurance, you are probably against it.

If you just do not want to pay for insurance, you choose a profession that does not provide insurance or you are just too lazy to work, you LOVE this law because someone else is paying for you.

If you are working hard and paying for your insurance, you know that you will be paying for those who "LOVE" this law.

I bet there is a large percentage of people who favor the law that will hate it once they figure out how it really works. When millennials who do not want insurance start paying for it, they will hate it as well.
The Link
 
There are problems with obamacare as you'd imagine with any large gov't program

However it appears BO etc built on many of them knowing it would cost more.
for instance there is NO verification to be subsidies.
Surely even the supporters can see this is disastrous
unless you think people won't game the system.

What happens to revenues when millions and millions take subsidies simply because they can>

One other question how many will get subsidies which will reduce their AGI to level where they will get EITC?

This is just one example.

surely a year delay would allow the gov't to work out all the seeable problems.
 
After nearly an hour, I am still waiting for the page to refresh with the login link. I cannot believe anyone would want these nitwits in charge of the health care system!
 
So I finally get a link, create an account, verify my email address - now I am back to the beginning and waiting for the login link again!
 
Meanwhile, the GOP doesn't seek to replace Obamacare. They seek to repeal it and go back to a system that was non-functional and getting worse.
Here's the story of a friend of mine getting screwed by the medical system.
"I had sinus surgery Oct 2012: 30 minute procedure (doctor was 3 HOURS late). Surgery center billed insurance company $55,000 and insurance paid $11,000. Ten (10!!) months later, I get a bill for my portion $2400. Surgery center says they were protesting with insurance. The facts that I no longer work at that company and no longer have that insurance and the center should have received pre-approval for the charges and I was never told I owed anything, are not my questions!
My questions: #1 What is the REAL cost? If they accept $11k then why in the H#** do they bill $55K? Why do they play this stupid game? If other businesses did this it would be called price gouging. "

She added that companies advertise to do the same procedure for $2,000 cash. For profit companies are gouging the hell out of consumers who don't have an insurance company fighting on their behalf, and as the example above shows, it's not necessarily true that the insurnace companies are really looking out for the consumer.

Obamacare may be crap, but there has to be some government restraint on multi-million dollar companies operating with a conscience too weak for used car sales: If medical companies were doing the charging, it would cost about $15,000 to get your lawn mowed or $3 million to reroof your house.
 
I'll try to shed some light on your friend's situation, but nobody could accurately answer without knowing exactly what procedure was performed, what ancillary services were provided and where exactly she was treated.

My questions: #1 What is the REAL cost? If they accept $11k then why in the H#** do they bill $55K?

The real cost goes beyond the labor associated with the case. There are costs like anesthesia, labs, neuromonitoring, nursing, expensive equipment, pharmaceuticals, radiology etc that add up. As much as liberals do not want it to be true, healthcare is a business. The costs of new technology, regulations, professional liability, labor and other capital costs are astronomical. Healthcare providers then add profit on top of those costs. They must also account for payment on those services to be slow and also account for many people who will not pay.

Why do they play this stupid game? If other businesses did this it would be called price gouging. They play the stupid game because it is how they are reimbursed by third parties. They negotiate contracts with insurance companies and also receive very low reimbursement (often less than actual cost) from the government.

Also, being mad because your doctor was late is understandable, but as short sighted as bitching when your commercial jet is delayed for mechanical issues or weather. Do you want the doctor to rush your case or leave you with complications so they can be on time for the next case? No surgery is the same.

ACA does nothing to help your complaints. It simply throws more people into the system you are complaining about which will create more red tape and longer waits for healthcare. I am for healthcare reform which actually focuses on healthcare, not insurance. And much to liberals chagrin, we do have the world's best healthcare. It is why people fly in from all over the world to the Houston Medical Center.

Finally, I submit that profit is good in healthcare. Without incentive for investment, we are left with no new technology or drugs that improve the quality of care. Also, nobody in their right mind borrows hundreds of thousands of dollars or spends 10 years in college for a low paying career.
 
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