Obama: killing Americans without due process okay
- Thread starter Bevo Incognito
- Start date
houstonearlers
100+ Posts
houstonearlers
100+ Posts
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Bush invaded all by himself? What a badass!
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Bush invaded all by himself? What a badass!
Bevo Incognito
5,000+ Posts
Don't be obtuse, Houston Earlers. Roger didn't say that Bush invaded by himself. Surely you are aware that this was shorthand for "Bush ultimately decided to order the invasion when he could have decided not to."
What I love about Obama ordering the killing of American citizens is how it has exposed the fact that many Democratic partisans and fervent Obama admirers are vapid, unprincipled hacks willing to justify anything and everything when embraced by Obama.
What I love about Obama ordering the killing of American citizens is how it has exposed the fact that many Democratic partisans and fervent Obama admirers are vapid, unprincipled hacks willing to justify anything and everything when embraced by Obama.
zork
2,500+ Posts
The silence from the left is a bit surreal. At least the Pubs were persistent with their anti-W spending proclivities. Why won't the left reign in their champion and his minions at the Justice Dept who are going too far on this issue?
I guess the silence is a silence of approval.
I guess the silence is a silence of approval.
H
Hu_Fan
Guest
texas_ex2000
2,500+ Posts
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
texas_ex with the best take on this that I've read. The problem is that they believe they need to find a way and justify themselves and they make things worse. The fact that they're unwilling to express the thoughts above and make clear-cut statements about when drone use is or isn't appropriate is what makes people even more worried that this can become a political tool or be misused to violate civil rights.
I don't think anyone argues that it's a violation of a person's human rights if he's shot while in the act of trying to detonate a bomb and kill civilians. Frankly I think the insistence that the person be "Al Qaeda" is ridiculous. What if he's part of a different terrorist group? Or what if he's just a nut job with a bomb? I would think that a drone attack ought to be treated exactly as a sniper would be treated. If you've got a sniper with his sights trained on the target, and the SWAT team feels comfortable telling him to take the shot, a drone attack would fit in exactly the same circumstances. And I have to believe that law enforcement has all kinds of regulations and procedures concerning when a sniper has authorization to fire - or at very least has the system in place to investigate and determine whether the shooting was justified.
That's why the president shouldn't be ordering drone strikes on anyone.
I don't think anyone argues that it's a violation of a person's human rights if he's shot while in the act of trying to detonate a bomb and kill civilians. Frankly I think the insistence that the person be "Al Qaeda" is ridiculous. What if he's part of a different terrorist group? Or what if he's just a nut job with a bomb? I would think that a drone attack ought to be treated exactly as a sniper would be treated. If you've got a sniper with his sights trained on the target, and the SWAT team feels comfortable telling him to take the shot, a drone attack would fit in exactly the same circumstances. And I have to believe that law enforcement has all kinds of regulations and procedures concerning when a sniper has authorization to fire - or at very least has the system in place to investigate and determine whether the shooting was justified.
That's why the president shouldn't be ordering drone strikes on anyone.
Bevo Incognito
5,000+ Posts
Good lord, Mop.
Newdoc said
Newdoc said
Uninformed
5,000+ Posts
Don't know what the history of this thread is but Obama promised better foreign relations and to turn away from Bush's wars and engage our enemies.
This week, in his second inaugural, President Obama recalled this vision, reminding Americans that they are "heirs to those who won the peace and not just the war; who turned sworn enemies into the surest of friends... We will show the courage to try and resolve our differences with other nations peacefully - not because we are naive about the dangers we face, but because engagement can more durably lift suspicion and fear."The Link
America today is “more respected, more engaged and more secure” than it was when President Obama came to office in early 2009, Assistant Secretary Esther Brimmer told an event at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. …
“At that time [January 2009], the United States faced serious questions about the future of our global engagement. We were deeply committed to two long and expensive wars, which hurt our ability to achieve other national goals and strained the fabric of global cooperation,” Brimmer said. …
“Since 2009, we’ve ended the war in Iraq, and U.S. troops in Afghanistan will draw down by 2014. In turning the page on a decade of war, the United States has expanded our pursuit of a smarter, more comprehensive engagement with the world, to better meet the challenges of the twenty-first century. …
And I remember Obama stating that he would “reboot” America’s image in the Muslim world and charged NASA with the task of Muslim outreach in order to improve US relations.
And on position on the world stage Obama stated:
Now is the time for a new era of international cooperation. It's time for America and Europe to renew our common commitment to face down the threats of the 21st century just as we did the challenges of the 20th. It's time to strengthen our partnerships with Japan, South Korea, Australia and the world's largest democracy - India - to create a stable and prosperous Asia. It's time to engage China on common interests like climate change, even as we continue to encourage their shift to a more open and market-based society. It's time to strengthen Nato by asking more of our allies, while always approaching them with the respect owed a partner. It's time to reform the United Nations, so that this imperfect institution can become a more perfect forum to share burdens, strengthen our leverage, and promote our values. It's time to deepen our engagement to help resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict, so that we help our ally Israel achieve true and lasting security, while helping Palestinians achieve their legitimate aspirations for statehood.
And just as we renew longstanding efforts, so must we shape new ones to meet new challenges. That's why I'll create a Shared Security Partnership Program - a new alliance of nations to strengthen cooperative efforts to take down global terrorist networks, while standing up against torture and brutality. That's why we'll work with the African Union to enhance its ability to keep the peace. That's why we'll build a new partnership to roll back the trafficking of drugs, and guns, and gangs in the Americas. That's what we can do if we are ready to engage the world.
We will have to provide meaningful resources to meet critical priorities. I know development assistance is not the most popular program, but as President, I will make the case to the American people that it can be our best investment in increasing the common security of the entire world. That was true with the Marshall Plan, and that must be true today. That's why I'll double our foreign assistance to $50 billion by 2012, and use it to support a stable future in failing states, and sustainable growth in Africa; to halve global poverty and to roll back disease. To send once more a message to those yearning faces beyond our shores that says, "You matter to us. Your future is our future. And our moment is now."
This must be the moment when we answer the call of history. For eight years, we have paid the price for a foreign policy that lectures without listening; that divides us from one another - and from the world - instead of calling us to a common purpose; that focuses on our tactics in fighting a war without end in Iraq instead of forging a new strategy to face down the true threats that we face. We cannot afford four more years of a strategy that is out of balance and out of step with this defining moment.
None of this will be easy, but we have faced great odds before. When General Marshall first spoke about the plan that would bear his name, the rubble of Berlin had not yet been built into a wall. But Marshall knew that even the fiercest of adversaries could forge bonds of friendship founded in freedom. He had the confidence to know that the purpose and pragmatism of the American people could outlast any foe. Today, the dangers and divisions that came with the dawn of the Cold War have receded. Now, the defeat of the threats of the past has been replaced by the transnational threats of today. We know what is needed. We know what can best be done. We know what must done. Now it falls to us to act with the same sense of purpose and pragmatism as an earlier generation, to join with friends and partners to lead the world anew.
Sounds pretty warm and fuzzy to me, but perhaps each of us have different definitions.
This week, in his second inaugural, President Obama recalled this vision, reminding Americans that they are "heirs to those who won the peace and not just the war; who turned sworn enemies into the surest of friends... We will show the courage to try and resolve our differences with other nations peacefully - not because we are naive about the dangers we face, but because engagement can more durably lift suspicion and fear."The Link
America today is “more respected, more engaged and more secure” than it was when President Obama came to office in early 2009, Assistant Secretary Esther Brimmer told an event at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. …
“At that time [January 2009], the United States faced serious questions about the future of our global engagement. We were deeply committed to two long and expensive wars, which hurt our ability to achieve other national goals and strained the fabric of global cooperation,” Brimmer said. …
“Since 2009, we’ve ended the war in Iraq, and U.S. troops in Afghanistan will draw down by 2014. In turning the page on a decade of war, the United States has expanded our pursuit of a smarter, more comprehensive engagement with the world, to better meet the challenges of the twenty-first century. …
And I remember Obama stating that he would “reboot” America’s image in the Muslim world and charged NASA with the task of Muslim outreach in order to improve US relations.
And on position on the world stage Obama stated:
Now is the time for a new era of international cooperation. It's time for America and Europe to renew our common commitment to face down the threats of the 21st century just as we did the challenges of the 20th. It's time to strengthen our partnerships with Japan, South Korea, Australia and the world's largest democracy - India - to create a stable and prosperous Asia. It's time to engage China on common interests like climate change, even as we continue to encourage their shift to a more open and market-based society. It's time to strengthen Nato by asking more of our allies, while always approaching them with the respect owed a partner. It's time to reform the United Nations, so that this imperfect institution can become a more perfect forum to share burdens, strengthen our leverage, and promote our values. It's time to deepen our engagement to help resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict, so that we help our ally Israel achieve true and lasting security, while helping Palestinians achieve their legitimate aspirations for statehood.
And just as we renew longstanding efforts, so must we shape new ones to meet new challenges. That's why I'll create a Shared Security Partnership Program - a new alliance of nations to strengthen cooperative efforts to take down global terrorist networks, while standing up against torture and brutality. That's why we'll work with the African Union to enhance its ability to keep the peace. That's why we'll build a new partnership to roll back the trafficking of drugs, and guns, and gangs in the Americas. That's what we can do if we are ready to engage the world.
We will have to provide meaningful resources to meet critical priorities. I know development assistance is not the most popular program, but as President, I will make the case to the American people that it can be our best investment in increasing the common security of the entire world. That was true with the Marshall Plan, and that must be true today. That's why I'll double our foreign assistance to $50 billion by 2012, and use it to support a stable future in failing states, and sustainable growth in Africa; to halve global poverty and to roll back disease. To send once more a message to those yearning faces beyond our shores that says, "You matter to us. Your future is our future. And our moment is now."
This must be the moment when we answer the call of history. For eight years, we have paid the price for a foreign policy that lectures without listening; that divides us from one another - and from the world - instead of calling us to a common purpose; that focuses on our tactics in fighting a war without end in Iraq instead of forging a new strategy to face down the true threats that we face. We cannot afford four more years of a strategy that is out of balance and out of step with this defining moment.
None of this will be easy, but we have faced great odds before. When General Marshall first spoke about the plan that would bear his name, the rubble of Berlin had not yet been built into a wall. But Marshall knew that even the fiercest of adversaries could forge bonds of friendship founded in freedom. He had the confidence to know that the purpose and pragmatism of the American people could outlast any foe. Today, the dangers and divisions that came with the dawn of the Cold War have receded. Now, the defeat of the threats of the past has been replaced by the transnational threats of today. We know what is needed. We know what can best be done. We know what must done. Now it falls to us to act with the same sense of purpose and pragmatism as an earlier generation, to join with friends and partners to lead the world anew.
Sounds pretty warm and fuzzy to me, but perhaps each of us have different definitions.
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