NYC chokehold non indictment

NJlonghorn

NJlonghorn

2,500+ Posts
I agree with not indicting Officer Wilson in the Ferguson matter. The evidence showed that Brown used violence against Officer Wilson, who had a strong case of self-defense. This makes a conviction next to impossible.

My initial reaction to the NYC chokehold case is different. The entire incident was caught on video. Eric Garner was arguing with the police, but he wasn't threatening them. Not only were there no punches thrown -- there were no shoves, or raised fists, or anything. I've watched the video a half dozen times, and I don't see anything that would justify a cop feeling endangered.

Nonetheless, the police chose to be aggressive. They took Garner down and put him in a choke hold. Doing so violated NYC procedures, because choke holds tend to do untoward things like kill people.

I would still be empathetic to the officers if they had been put in a position where they had to arrest Garner. If he was fleeing a murder, or even an assault, or was threatening violence, then they would have been entitled (obligated, actually) to protect the public by moving in. It then would have been hard to question spur-of-the-moment decisions when taking down a 300+ pound man.

But here, Garner was being questioned about selling cigarettes illegally. The offense was a misdemeanor, and Garner should have been ticketed for it. But there was no reason for the officers to touch him, much less subdue him.

Thoughts?
 
This incident was a case of the NYC cop screwing up and going against policy. With the info put out there it looks like the police should have been indicted, but I don't think race was involved.
 
Agree with everything that NJ said. It sucks to see DAs present grand juries with info that will produce an indictment when dealing with an average citizen but doing the opposite when its a cop.
 
I saw the video, and I don't see much of a case for the cops. He wasn't cooperative, but he never endangered them or even appeared to. It was a massive overreaction. Indictment or no indictment, the family of the dead man will hire Ron Kuby, and the City will end up writing out a $10M check.
 
I agree, but I question why everyone believes any of these cases are a conspiracy when it is a grand jury. The case seems clear cut, but obviously there was evidence that swayed the GJ.

I have heard suggestions to create special prosecutors for these type of cases due to potential conflicts of interest with local DA's and police. Sounds reasonable to me, but I am not an attorney. What do you attorneys think?
 
Garner had been arrested 31 times previously. You'd think he'd have his routine down pat; spread 'em, put the hands up, etc. Lawyer will have you out in a few hours. No big deal.

I think he actually died in a hospital, not at the scene. I guess you could say the cops set something in motion that led to his death, but they didn't kill him per se.
 
It was IMO complete over reaction by the cops but it was not about race. Not everything is about race except where the race agitators including BO make it about race.
BTW There was a black Sgt at the scene of the arrest.
This was though police exceeded their policy.
Completely different from the officer Wilson case except to the race baiters.
 
I don't think we should get on the slippery slope of indicting cops for violations of departmental policy. Did they intend to kill the guy? Did they do something they perceived to be likely to cause serious injury or death?

I have on several occasions watched the tv show COPS, in which they follow officers from different places around as they make arrests. The over reacting is incredible.
I have done ride alongs with cop friends and seen drunks and druggies start mixing it with the cops and it is never pretty but I never saw one shoot anybody or kill them with excessive force.

This big dumbass brought the takedown on himself. Anybody who has been arrested, me included, knows the drill and how you keep from getting your scalp creased.

What was the deceased's problem? Was he going to be late for work?
 
Was driving down a dirt road behind my friends house just behind his fence line. It was about 5 or 6 in the evening. We were just seeing what was back there because we were stupid high schoolers. When we were leaving, we saw three cop cars blocking the entrance from the main road to the dirt road. We drove up to them very slowly expecting them to tell us to go home or something. When we got about 20 yards away they all jumped out of their cars with guns drawn screaming at us. Threw us on the ground and cussed us a lot. They took us down town and impounded all the vehicles. Charges were dropped pretty quickly but i spent most of the night in jail and got a story. Never figured out why the cops went so ape **** on us. We were all white 16 year olds in the burbs that made no threatening motions or anything. We were driving up to them not running away. All the really dumb **** I did and I got in trouble for nothing!
 
Larry, don't feel bad. Cops with small penises get a raging hard-on pushing teenagers and black guys around. Take it as a compliment from them.
 
Black lives matter. Yep. So do white, brown, and other lives. This isn't a racial matter. It is a matter of brutality and he should have been indicted based upon the video evidence.
 
My opinion is that there is fault on all sides. But not for one minute this was about race.

Okay let me start with the reason there was an altercation to begin with.

1) This is partly on the politicians for making a law that tax very heavy the sale of cigarettes. Because its taxed so high people make and sale their own cigarettes. Then they make it against the law to make and sell your own cigarettes. Because it's law the police are suppose to enforce it. I hate high taxes anyway. If someone wants to make their lungs black that's their business.

2) STOP RESISTING AN ARREST!!!!!! Nothing good comes of it when these morons think they can resist and the police will just say okay, he's resisting so lets leave him alone. I'm sick of people resisting then something bad happens then it's the law enforcements fault. You break the law so own up to it and cooperate with the police. He might of got another warning if he would have been respectful.

3) They (police) did their job by enforcing the law. He resisted and they took action. Now where they are wrong is they should have made sure he was safe when they had him on the ground. If he is stating he can't breathe, then friggin check on him and make sure he's okay. How hard it that?

4) The after affects. Obama and his administration are once again flaming the fire by taking sides. There isn't an epidemic of police violence against blacks. Only about 130 blacks were killed by police officers in 2013. There are around 40 million blacks in America. that's a smallest of fractions. Police killed double amount of whites that same year. And I believe out of the 130 blacks, not a single one was innocent, I bet not one time a police officer shot them because they were black. The blacks need to listen to the common sense of what Charles Barkley said and stop listening to Jessie, Al, Holder, and BHO. They don't have the black people interest at heart. . They just divide, divide, and divide for 6 years now.
 
Here is what I get out of the incident.

1. Cities crave revenue so badly that they pass and enforce stupid laws such as prohibiting the sale of cigarettes, pass out parking fines by the hundreds only a daily basis, and crack down on jaywalkers even where there is little traffic.

2. The Andy Griffith model of trying to defuse confrontation has been replaced by using brute force. No need to deescalate a situation. Just pound the **** out of the suspect.

3. Police tend to act like a bunch of crazed pack dogs. If one of them over reacts, instead of correcting the officer the others either passively watch or join in.
 
Was the supervising officer, Kizzie Adonis, black? If so, does that remove the racist claim in this incident?
 
Maybe it's because I'm white, but I'm much less concerned about the potentially racist part of this than the pure unnecessary brutality part. The examples of needless violence by police has really been stacking up over the years and it has been people of all different colors as victims.
 
The City of New York has to take some of the blame for this one. Sending cops to arrest a guy for selling loose cigarettes? How stupid is that? I'll bet they walked right by drug dealers and prostitutes to get to Garner. All so that they can get their tax dollars off of cigarettes.
 
This event was facilitated by a large expansion in regulations by the Obama Administration. That doesn't mean they should be blamed for the incident, but it highlights Clean's point about sending police to arrest a man selling "loosies". That wasn't illegal 5 years ago. I became illegal in 2010 when regulators were given more freedom to assert authority.

Regardless of who the President is, if regulators are allowed to continue this scope creep we will all be guilty of something even if it is as silly as selling "loosies".
 
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