North pole to melt this year?

well bierce...it sounds like neither of us contradicted each other then and we both told the truth. i still think the point i made is far more signficant as all you actually said was that some parts of the Anarctica are losing mass....to which my reply is "who cares?"

i suspect the polar caps are always going through such flux to the point where SOMEWHERE they are losing mass and SOMEWHERE they are gaining some....the more important question (imo) is what is happening overall? overall antarctica is GAINING mass and overall the earth is about even to plus over the past 10 years.

in spite of the bashing i have received i still claim i made some excellent points and a reasonable person may yet come away from this thread unperturbed or frightened by the loss of summer ice in the arctic.

by the way....this, though an opinion piece, makes some excellent points:


editorial

only time will tell, but if the graphs i showed are accurate (and they come from a source that seems to buy AGW, then i am not at all convinced we should be concerned about anything at this point.....

by the way hornpharmd....the only reason i misspelled your name was because i didn't know how to spell it and i was already in the reply and didn't want to go dig it up. i did my best but knew that it was not quite right. no offense meant i assure you.

(of course now i realize, like a buffoon, that i could have just slid the page down since you were the original poster and found your name!)
 
actually that is embarrassingly ad hominem and not relevant. that is a logical fallacy and i have no obligation to respond to such rubbish.

i will respond to some of the other good points later.
 
That's cool mop I made it too long anyways.

Back to a question I posed earlier in the thread that I didn't see any response too. Isn't the real problem with the possibility of the north pole ice melting (bare with me) that the sun's UV rays will not reflect off the ice and away from earth but will absorb into the water and further escalate the global warming (at least that is how I understood it). Thus isn't the north pole ice melting a significant event that cannot be simply dismissed or adapted to and how does the antarctic ice gaining mass counterbalance this?
 
hornpharmd...i agree. that is what alarms me the most about the situation. i guess we will see....

meanwhile global temperatures continue to drop since their high of 1998. the "unofficial" satellite data from UAH has this June as the coldest june since 1996 (it continues to get colder folks) and one of the coldest months period (except for last month) since 2004.

it was the 8th coldest june "on record" (but that's only since 1979 since that's how long satellite data goes back). still....out of 30 junes on record, this was the 8th coldest june according to the UAH data to be released in the next few days.
 
according to the RSS it was the 13 coldest june on record.....
so almost the median for the past 30 years (RSS is another satellite data base)........

but to put this in perspective....it was nonetheless colder than June of 1980. meaning that 28 years have passed between those two Junes but THIS one is colder worldwide......furthermore...if you compare January through June from 1980 to January through June of 2008.....2008 has been significantly cooler than 28 years ago according to RSS AND the UAH data. that is 2 of the 4 accepted sources for Global Temperature data.
 
so as of this month......here is what has happened in the terrible crisis of global warming over the past 360 months (that's 30 years for the math challenged) according to UAH data. someone remind me why i should be panicking?




look! global warming is upon us!

for those of you who are not good at reading graphs.....we are now about 1/20th of a degree celsius after 30 years of CO2 poisoning our atmosphere......just think......we may go up a full degree celsius if we have the same cylce repeat itself merely 30 more times over the next 600 years.
 
the silence is deafening.......

but that's ok...i will keep posting this stuff until we get a solid answer on GW.
 
Thanks Oz. I thought that is how I remembered it. North pole ice decreasing in size no doubt about that. No one has challenged that. Will have real effects that could further esclate climate change. I think we all agree on that.
 
yet.....at the current rate, it looks like this year will NOT surpass last year in terms of ice melt, so this whole discussion may be off......

this week will tell us much in terms of ice melt.

currently we have far more than last year at the same time.....we will see if the trend continues though....


sea ice comparison
 
actually...you have it wrong. that was an article that was supposedly based upon the data. the real source would be something akin to this:


raw data

which does not suggest what is being said in this thread regarding arctic ice.

or this:


more raw data

which shows the exaggerations being promulgated in the original article referenced in this thread.

at this rate, it looks like it will actually be a fairly average year, or just a bit south of that.
 
your kidding right? we are BEHIND where we were last year at the same time and the graph is suggesting a growing delta between this year and last year.

if you disagree with that then please explain.....but it is fairly elementary.
 
The "delta" that you refer to has only occured in the last week. That may be a new trend, but we'll have to see what happens for the rest of July.

If you look at April to end of June portion of the graph you can see that the rate of decline for 2008 is slightly higher than 2007. That is what the article was refering to.

In terms of last year vs this year, the ice loss so far this year is only slightly less than last year, which is like looking at a gun shot victim and saying that second hole in your head is only slightly smaller than the first.
 
yet....the article is saying that this year is worse. you just admitted it is NOT. if you look at the ice record over the past 10 years or so, this year is looking fairly pedestrian. time will tell how it turns out, but this is once again creating hype over nothing.....it would seem.
 
Meanwhile, while everyone is in a panic, did anyone notice how cool it was outside last night for July the 4th?
 
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