Next man/woman up ! or should I say OUT !.....

[kurupt]

Not to mention she’s not that great of a “primary” recruiter. He best talent has come via the transfer market. Tough way to make a living given the headwinds you face at Texas

That’s what happens when you don’t have a natural recruiting base to recruit to in Florida unlike with the state of Texas. You can basically say the same thing for Adia Barnes, most of her recruits are international players. The fact that Sue Semrauh has been able to do what she’s done at a place like Florida State speaks volumes.

 

[cynt]

I'm watching the KY vs MSST game. And I'm scratching my head at what Coach MMitchell has done with C Patterson. She seems to play better and better each game. Whoever we get and if we stick with KA we must teach and coach our players. Kentucky is known for their defense so how in the world did Cpatterson go from a coach who says she didn't play defense to MMitchell's Wildcats. I'm frustrated that she couldn't get the best out of Patterson and Patterson is not a Longhorn shooting lights out.

And Patterson looks like she's enjoying playing the game.

 

[kurupt]

I'm watching the KY vs MSST game. And I'm scratching my head at what Coach MMitchell has done with C Patterson. She seems to play better and better each game. Whoever we get and if we stick with KA we must teach and coach our players. Kentucky is known for their defense so how in the world did Cpatterson go from a coach who says she didn't play defense to MMitchell's Wildcats. I'm frustrated that she couldn't get the best out of Patterson and Patterson is not a Longhorn shooting lights out.

And Patterson looks like she's enjoying playing the game.

Calm down.

 

[hoopsalot]

That’s what happens when you don’t have a natural recruiting base to recruit to in Florida unlike with the state of Texas. You can basically say the same thing for Adia Barnes, most of her recruits are international players. The fact that Sue Semrauh has been able to do what she’s done at a place like Florida State speaks volumes.

I
Good point about schools with a natural recruiting base and those without. But look what Vic Schaeffer has done in Starksville Mississippi. Adia Barnes took over a team that had been in the dumps for quite some time. She is only in her fourth season. It remains to be seen how well she will recruit now that she is having more success and her program is getting better notice. She does have to recruit against a lot of good Pac 12 programs, some with desirable locations and/or good to great academics to sell. I would not mind taking a flyer on Barnes at all if she can be lured away. Barnes was also an assistant under Neighbors at Washington and has a reputation as a good recruiter. Speaking of Washington, remember Osahor who played at Washington with Kelsey Plum? One reason some coaches are able build or revive programs is that they know how to evaluate the potential in players who are not (for whatever reason) being recruited by every top 10 team in the land.

Edit: Barnes also plucked Cate Reese out of Texas for 2018 -- the program's first McDonald's All-American.

 

[UTSUgrad]

I'm watching the KY vs MSST game. And I'm scratching my head at what Coach MMitchell has done with C Patterson. She seems to play better and better each game. Whoever we get and if we stick with KA we must teach and coach our players. Kentucky is known for their defense so how in the world did Cpatterson go from a coach who says she didn't play defense to MMitchell's Wildcats. I'm frustrated that she couldn't get the best out of Patterson and Patterson is not a Longhorn shooting lights out.

And Patterson looks like she's enjoying playing the game.

Well, maybe she IS enjoying the game ... don't recall her playing much or well at Texas. It's not necessarily someone's fault if a player doesn't work out. Playing at Texas seemed like a good idea at one time, but it wasn't. Could be that she's happy to have a second chance ... sort of like second marriages!

 

[UTSUgrad]

At least for now, I am joining the "Karen needs to go" crowd. It's just not working anymore. To be flattened by ISU and Kansas in back to back games is just too much. I heard part of the game on the radio. If I heard her right, Kathy Harsten said the biggest problem was our letting them drive to the basket too much. That is just unacceptable defense in my book. Nothing makes me wince like having our players standing flat footed or running along side someone going to the basket, rather than staying between them and the basket (if that is what Harsten was talking about). That happened several times with that small guard from ISU.

Just to be blunt, I don't think Joyner should ever have been a McD All-American or so high on the national recruiting lists. She is interesting to watch and can occasionally do some remarkable things, but any great basketball player has to have a good shooting touch, and she just flat doesn't. I think Sug and Lashann are truly great guards, but they have been strangely up and down this year, especially Lashann, which can maybe be explained by her coming back from the ACL.

I love watching Celeste and she works as hard as any player I have ever seen, but her shooting needs to improve. I'll watch them every game and cheer them on, no matter how bad it gets, but it has been a truly weird, down year.

I wonder if the players understand that their poor play will get KA and staff fired? As I recall, the players seemed surprised when Jody resigned. Last year, I thought the players probably were not friends off the court and had not much trust on it, hence, no chemistry. This year is just as bad - they don't seem to care much about the game they are playing, and when things get really bad, as with the abysmal shooting v. Iowa State, they are visibly frustrated and seem to lose interest. They seem eager to get off the court ... reminds me of a bad job I had. Then, there was the Stanford game ...

 

[Bobcat]

I wonder if the players understand that their poor play will get KA and staff fired? As I recall, the players seemed surprised when Jody resigned. Last year, I thought the players probably were not friends off the court and had not much trust on it, hence, no chemistry. This year is just as bad - they don't seem to care much about the game they are playing, and when things get really bad, as with the abysmal shooting v. Iowa State, they are visibly frustrated and seem to lose interest. They seem eager to get off the court ... reminds me of a bad job I had. Then, there was the Stanford game ...

It's not necessary for them to be "friends" off the court. I played with several people I personally didn't like at all, but once you are in the game, you forget about that stuff.

 

[HnH]

I have a general question about coaching contract renewals:

Generally speaking, if an AD has the intention of retaining a coach whose contract is set to expire, wouldn't he have already renewed her by February of the expiration year?

 

[WCBBNUT]

I have a general question about coaching contract renewals:

Generally speaking, if an AD has the intention of retaining a coach whose contract is set to expire, wouldn't he have already renewed her by February of the expiration year?

Makes one think the writing is on the wall.

 

[Moooooo]

While I still get the feeling that the decision not to renew Karen's contract (for whatever reason) was made months ago, tonight's loss at Kansas left no doubt in my mind in my that Karen won't be returning after this season concludes next month.

I find myself thinking back to when Aston was hired by Plonsky. It just didn't seem fathomable to me that a coach with just a handful of years as a head coach at UNC-Charlotte and North Texas (with zero post-season success) was gonna be able to hold her own against coaches at Baylor and A&M who had just recently won a national title. That's like someone bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Yet, it sure seems that several posters on here (and on other Texas message boards) "expected" her to get the job done (and, I'm honestly not sure why). But, others knew good and well that her inexperience would be a huge obstacle.

So, you fast forward to when she started signing highly-ranked recruiting classes; I guess that's what raised fan expectations even higher; it sure did for me. And, that's basically what happens for those who follow recruiting -- it sets expectations for the future. But, she was winning on the court in the form of Sweet 16 and Elite 8 stepping stones.

We have some posters who assume that top recruiting classes guarantee success at the collegiate level. We have some posters who assume that recruits designated as a high school "All-American" by one subjective panel or recruiting site guarantees that they will be "all-conference" or "all-american" in college. It just doesn't work that way, in any sport.

The year we beat Baylor in Waco was 2016. Based on how inconsistently we had been playing the in prior games, I never would have predicted a win. Yet, we somehow manage to perhaps play our best game ever under Aston and win in upset fashion. That win in itself set expectations even higher. Unfortunately, that was the peak; we never played that well again for a full game, IMO. But, we still achieve an Elite 8 appearance.

Yes, Texas had like 9-10 high school McDonald's all-americans on its roster come the 2017-18 season. But, let's be real. Jordan Hosey was a tweener who didn't have the "it" factor, IMO; watching her in the McDonald's All-American game, I could honestly say that she wasn't at the skill level of her teammates. Joyner was suspended the Fall semester, and could not find her form in her return come Spring. Jatarie White was playing her first year of college basketball at Texas after having sat out the previous season due to transfer rules; and, she had been injured at South Carolina so didn't play much the 2 years she spent in Columbia. Sutton was a sophomore who we know had an ACL injury in high school, and was used sparingly her freshman season at Texas as she tried to get 100% healthy; she was taking a back seat to Brooke and Lashann, which is understandable. Freshmen, Rellah and Destiny were so very unprepared with their physical conditioning to contribute immediately; and, Rellah had attitude problems, and Destiny struggled with injuries. I still don't know why Chasity's minutes were so limited, but they were. That's 7 of the "all-americans" who were non-factors that season. Are those factors Coach Aston's fault? I'll let each poster have their own opinion on that; I have my own.

That leaves the other 3 "All-Americans" on the roster. Lashann Higgs was so gifted athletically and quickness was her greatest asset; she didn't grow up playing basketball in her early youth, so she was a very raw player skill-wise and hoops IQ-wise; but, she could dominate at times just based on superior athleticism. Ariel and Brooke were warriors, as they were all 4 years at Texas. But, 3 elite back-court players can only get you so far, and if they are not at their best on a given night (like against UCLA in the round of 16), those other 7 "all-americans" weren't prepared to pick up the slack for the team leaders. So, for folks to throw out blanket statements like "Texas has 10 All-Americans on its roster", it is just so very misleading if you don't know the details of their individual situations.

As we all think beyond this season, and who can lead our program going forward, I still read so many comments on several Texas message boards that we need to "hire someone who can beat Baylor" and "hire someone who is at Mulkey's level". Child, please. Who are these head coaches who meet that criteria, and whose current employer is gonna let them leave their current schools for Texas? I know some posters have this obsession (perhaps jealousy) because Baylor is accomplishing what we want our program to accomplish. Unfortunately, you first have to learn to walk before you can run. Our new head coach will basically start at the same level Karen did 8 years ago as it pertains to the talent on the roster (and that's only if players don't transfer out of the program, which is common during head coaching changes).

Unlike softball and volleyball, basketball is the one women's sport where transfers are not guaranteed immediate eligibility. So, even though Mike White was able to immediately upgrade the talent on his first-year roster via the transfer market, our new hoops coach won't have that luxury. Anyone who expects our new head coach to start consistently beating Baylor in 2-3 years is not being realistic with their expectations, IMO. And, was it ever realistic to put those expectations on Karen?

 

[Moooooo]

I have a general question about coaching contract renewals:

Generally speaking, if an AD has the intention of retaining a coach whose contract is set to expire, wouldn't he have already renewed her by February of the expiration year?

Or, maybe the head coach is the one who doesn't want the renewal.

Either way, it's most unfair to our current and future players if they are dealing with so many unknowns about their head coach. I honestly don't know how Karen managed to sign recruits in November with an expiring contract on the horizon. Parents of recruits are always concerned about a head coach's longevity; not having information about a coach's remaining contract years is huge reason for concern for recruits and their parents.

Part of me wonders if something was told to the players about Karen's future before the Iowa State game, and that's what led to their performance the last two games. Yes, I know I'm grasping at straws to explain the play we've seen recently.

 

[kurupt]

Makes one think the writing is on the wall.

We obviously have to wait and see. Again, Angela Kelly was in the final year of her contract, didn’t win the conference and barley made the tournament and her contract was renewed.

 

[kurupt]

Or, maybe the head coach is the one who doesn't want the renewal.

Either way, it's most unfair to our current and future players if they are dealing with so many unknowns about their head coach. I honestly don't know how Karen managed to sign recruits in November with an expiring contract on the horizon. Parents of recruits are always concerned about a head coach's longevity; not having information about a coach's remaining contract years is huge reason for concern for recruits and their parents.

Part of me wonders if something was told to the players about Karen's future before the Iowa State game, and that's what led to their performance the last two games. Yes, I know I'm grasping at straws to explain the play we've seen recently.

I seriously doubt that the AD or anyone involved with Texas would tell the players anything about a coaches contract.

 

[Moooooo]

I seriously doubt that the AD or anyone involved with Texas would tell the players anything about a coaches contract.

What if the players flat out asked Karen if she was gonna return next season? Don't you think the players, their friends, or their family read media articles or message boards where EVERYONE is aware about her contract not having been renewed? That's like sticking your head in the sand and pretending there is no issue about her remaining the head coach.

 

[Moooooo]

That’s what happens when you don’t have a natural recruiting base to recruit to in Florida unlike with the state of Texas. You can basically say the same thing for Adia Barnes, most of her recruits are international players. The fact that Sue Semrauh has been able to do what she’s done at a place like Florida State speaks volumes.

A lot of people say that former FSU assistant coach and former Texas Tech player, Lance White, was the key to FSU's recruiting success for several years. He's now the head coach at Pittsburgh; he could be one to watch in our head coaching search.

 

[kurupt]

What if the players flat out asked Karen if she was gonna return next season? Don't you think the players, their friends, or their family read media articles or message boards where EVERYONE is aware about her contract not having been renewed? That's like sticking your head in the sand and pretending there is no issue about her remaining the head coach.

Doubt it. And it isn’t like we’ve never seen KA’s teams play just like they’re currently doing.

 

[Moooooo]

I
Adia Barnes took over a team that had been in the dumps for quite some time. She is only in her fourth season. It remains to be seen how well she will recruit now that she is having more success and her program is getting better notice. She does have to recruit against a lot of good Pac 12 programs, some with desirable locations and/or good to great academics to sell. I would not mind taking a flyer on Barnes at all if she can be lured away. Barnes was also an assistant under Neighbors at Washington and has a reputation as a good recruiter. Speaking of Washington, remember Osahor who played at Washington with Kelsey Plum? One reason some coaches are able build or revive programs is that they know how to evaluate the potential in players who are not (for whatever reason) being recruited by every top 10 team in the land.

Edit: Barnes also plucked Cate Reese out of Texas for 2018 -- the program's first McDonald's All-American.

And, she won the recruiting battle last Fall for 6'5 Lauren Ware out of North Dakota, over schools like Texas, UCLA, Tennessee, etc.

 

[Moooooo]

Doubt it. And it isn’t like we’ve never seen KA’s teams play just like they’re currently doing.

So, you think no players or parents are asking questions about Karen's future? If I had a child of mine on the team, I'd be demanding answers one way or another, and I wouldn't stop asking the head coach and AD until they gave me satisfactory answers.

 

[kurupt]

So, you think no players or parents are asking questions about Karen's future?

I’m sure some are but I don’t think it’s the cause of the team playing poorly because we’ve seen this type of play repeatedly. Also the players that are the most important and that play the most important roles this year are seniors, so why would they really care about what’s going to happen next year?

 

[HnH]

Either way, it's most unfair to our current and future players if they are dealing with so many unknowns about their head coach. I honestly don't know how Karen managed to sign recruits in November with an expiring contract on the horizon. Parents of recruits are always concerned about a head coach's longevity; not having information about a coach's remaining contract years is huge reason for concern for recruits and their parents.

But aren't those unknowns generally inevitable in this type of situation? I've never heard of players or recruits being "tipped off" ahead of time that the coach will be let go.

 

[Moooooo]

But aren't those unknowns generally inevitable in this type of situation? I've never heard of players or recruits being "tipped off" ahead of time that the coach will be let go.

This is different than compared to Shaka's situation where he still has like 2-3 years remaining on his contract. The AD's politically correct reply would be that Shaka would be assessed after the season concludes.

Karen has like 3 months remaining in what was once a 5 year contract. Was it you that asked why hasn't she be renewed? We're all wondering why as fans. Can you imagine what the current players, signees, and their parents are wondering as they are much more directly affected than we are? Texas doesn't typically keep a coach's future blowing in the wind like that. Only softball coach Connie Clark was in a similar situation to Aston's back in 2018, and her contract was allowed to expire without renewal at season's end.

 

[Moooooo]

Doubt it. And it isn’t like we’ve never seen KA’s teams play just like they’re currently doing.

My memory is not what it used to be, so you'll have to remind me of a two-game stretch of 15-plus point losses like what we saw against ISU and Kansas.

 

[WCBBNUT]

A whole lot of words to describe a whole lot of hindsight. In the meantime we’ve got a game coming up. Horns up!

 

[HnH]

This is different than compared to Shaka's situation where he still has like 2-3 years remaining on his contract. The AD's politically correct reply would be that Shaka would assessed after the season concludes.

Karen has like 3 months remaining in what was once a 5 year contract. Was it you that asked why hasn't she be renewed? We're all wondering why as fans. Can you imagine what the current players, signees, and their parents are wondering as they are much more directly affected than we are? Texas doesn't keep typically keep a coach's future blowing in the wind like that. Only softball coach Connie Clark was in a similar situation to Aston's back in 2018, and her contract was allowed to expire without renewal at season's end.

Many of us had hopes that this year's team -- with Higgs back from her ACL, and Joyner finally playing a full season -- would be noticeably improved over last year's team that lost in the 1st round. Maybe the AD had similar hopes and was actually waiting to see how this team did before making up his mind.

I'm sure parents and players are all wondering. But I don't think this type of situation is all that unusual. It happened last year at Penn State. It happened a few years ago at Arizona. I still don't see how an AD can divulge his plans ahead of time, no matter how legitimately curious the interested parties are.

 

[Moooooo]

A whole lot of words to describe a whole lot of hindsight. In the meantime we’ve got a game coming up. Horns up!

But, this is not a game thread. So, that's why the Subject line is a good indicator of the topic being discussed here.

 

[WCBBNUT]

My memory is not what it used to be, so you'll have to remind me of a two-game stretch of 15-plus point losses like what we saw against ISU and Kansas.

I am too lazy to give you the exact year but if was just a few ago when we went on a terror, got some big wins to get into the Top 10 only to drop three in a row to teams we should have beaten. Anyone remember what year that was? Brooke and Ariel were still here.

 

[Moooooo]

Maybe the AD had similar hopes and was actually waiting to see how this team did before making up his mind.

I'm sure parents and players are all wondering. But I don't think this type of situation is all that unusual. It happened last year at Penn State. It happened a few years ago at Arizona. I still don't see how an AD can divulge his plans ahead of time, no matter how legitimately curious the interested parties are.

I'll take your word for it on the previous situations at Penn State and Arizona. Neither resulted in the coach being extended, right?

 

[Moooooo]

I am too lazy to give you the exact year but if was just a few ago when we went on a terror, got some big wins to get into the Top 10 only to drop three in a row to teams we should have beaten. Anyone remember what year that was? Brooke and Ariel were still here.

It was 2016, our Elite 8 year. But, those were close losses to good teams. Our last two games were losses by 15+ points against teams that are not very strong this season.

 

[WCBBNUT]

But, this is not a game thread. So, that's why the Subject line is a good indicator of the topic being discussed here.

Agree. But we still got a game to win.

 

[HnH]

I'll take your word for it on the previous situations at Penn State and Arizona. Neither resulted in the coach being extended, right?

Correct. Coquese Washington (at Penn State) was in her last contract year. Same with Niya Butts at Arizona. Audra Smith at Clemson was in a similar situation two years ago. Kristy Curry (Alabama) and Jen Hoover (Wake Forest) are probably there as we speak.