New York State's New Abortion Law

[Mr. Deez]

I don't agree with Roe v. Wade overall, but I do think Justice Blackmun was right that we cannot know the instant at which life begins. In fact, I'd go a step further and say that there is no magic instant at which a cell or clump of cells goes from "not life" to "life". Even before the point of conception, a sperm and an egg have some life-like characteristics. Conception creates more such characteristics, and is the first moment at which a full blueprint for a life-to-be exists in one place. As the egg grows into a zygote then an embryo then a fetus, the extent to which a "life" exists grows steadily. At some debatable point, the life-to-be becomes a full-fledged life.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any defensible way to discern the exact point when a life comes to be. Thus, I can't get around the fact that abortion law is inherently arbitrary to some extent, necessitating a balance between competing rights and policy goals. I know many of you find this untenable, but I'm okay with it.

Two big problems with Roe. First, even if it doesn't presume to decide when life begins, it does presume to decide when it doesn't begin. That wasn't their decision to make. It had nothing to do with the law they were supposed to be applying.

Second, if they're going to sit as drag state legislators (and if we're ok with unelected elites making the rules instead of democratically elected officials), they should have erred on the side of people living rather dying. But again, it wasn't their job to get into that issue. In terms of procedure, they're poorly equipped.

 

[bystander]

life DOES begin at conception. My belief/thought is irrelevant. That others try to claim otherwise only underscores the effort to drive the discussion to a preconceived/agenda’d end.

So does that mean to you that anyone having an abortion at anytime is a murderer?

 

[Seattle Husker]

SH
You made it clear even if you did not mean to.
A child IS a human

Speaking FOR me again? Not just a liberal trait, huh?

 

[Seattle Husker]

Don't be dense, 6271. Husker is talking about what happens if a "pre-viable" fetus is no longer in the mother's body. It dies, and there is nothing medical science can to to prevent it. The reasons for this happening (intentional, accidental, miscarriage, etc) are not germane to his point.

Husker's point is, if the fetus is at a developmental stage that cannot survive outside the mother's womb, that is a stage at which he is OK with the decision to abort.
(Husker, please correct me if I have this wrong.)

I disagree with Husker, but I can respect his point of view here. I'm confident he didn't arrive at this outlook without a fair amount of thoughtful consideration. I have arrived at my viewpoint, that a separate life begins when a complete and unique genetic code is created at conception, the same way - via much thought and consideration.

To me, the fact that the new life is 100% dependent on it's mother for 22 weeks or so is immaterial. It is still a new life and should be respected as such. Husker finds the factor of utter dependence to be more material. Both viewpoints have their own strengths and weaknesses when being argued.

You've captured my viewpoint. I respect your viewpoint and realize we've emphasized different elements of evidence to reach our own conclusions.

 

[ShAArk92]

So does that mean to you that anyone having an abortion at anytime is a murderer?

Given the rest of my submissions here on this topic ... what do you think?

 

[ShAArk92]

What happens when a zygote or embryo is "born"

You’re mixing born with life and disregarding human life’s development.

 

[nashhorn]

Well hell, if the embryo is alive and you kill it that's killing a human being - what would you call it?

 

[bystander]

Given the rest of my submissions here on this topic ... what do you think?

I haven't read them all.

 

[ShAArk92]

I haven't read them all.

OK ... I figured you’d have read enough to answer that question.

No is the short answer.

I fully realize there are TRULY difficult circumstances which befall our preganancies in our fallen world and afflicted/imperfect bodies. I certainly don’t suppose to know them all, but if they involve a baby’s birth and painful death within an hour/so ... with certainty ... and a painless alternative is available ... that isn’t murder, its mercy.

But as has been said ... there’s no 3rd trimester threat to a woman’s life. So this is part of the NY law’s problem.

These are an extraordinarily relatively rare occurrence of the current array of abortions. Those done for convenience ... the VAST majority today/last 4 decades ... those are murders. Yes. The woman who decided to do it and the people who actually DID execute the horrific procedure.

we as a society/people will be held to account for this disregard of innocent human life.

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

I fully realize there are TRULY difficult circumstances which befall our preganancies in our fallen world and afflicted/imperfect bodies.

Not sure if there are statistics out there for this, but I'll go out on a limb and say that 70%+ of all abortions are out of convenience due to accidental pregnancies and not medically necessary.

I try to stay out of these conversations because my opinion really doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is between me and God. However, imagine the overpopulation issues in NY had 1/3 or more of the pregnancies hadn't been aborted over the decades. I genuinely wonder if seeing abortion rates decline the last decade had anything to do with them deciding to open this up all the way. I'm starting to believe that increasing population and decreasing abortion rates have them Yanks scared.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Not sure if there are statistics out there for this, but I'll go out on a limb and say that 70%+ of all abortions are out of convenience due to accidental pregnancies and not medically necessary.

I try to stay out of these conversations because my opinion really doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is between me and God. However, imagine the overpopulation issues in NY had 1/3 or more of the pregnancies hadn't been aborted over the decades. I genuinely wonder if seeing abortion rates decline the last decade had anything to do with them deciding to open this up all the way. I'm starting to believe that increasing population and decreasing abortion rates have them Yanks scared.

Are abortion rates decreasing because women are choosing not to abort more often or are there fewer pregnancies thus the need for fewer abortions? I honestly don't know but suspect that the increase in awareness of birth control and STD prevention is resulting in fewer pregnancies, at least in urban populations.

I'm definitely at risk of location bias but my sons' friends are extremely conscientious of unwanted pregnancies. They aren't having sex any less than when I was their age but more aware of the potential outcome. In fact, their generation (and my own) are working hard not to have children based on my experience.

 

[ShAArk92]

Not sure if there are statistics out there for this,

There are. I’ll look for em later. Just a fly thru checking on my friend bystander. Class starts (yes) now.

 

[Joe Fan]

Democrat House legislators in Virginia have proposed legislation to allow abortions while the mother is having the baby.

 

[AustinHorn24]

As a doctor, I don't know anybody in my med school class who was enthusiastic about providing abortions, even though it was a "liberal" east coast school in which the vast majority of med students would be considered pro-abortion.

NARAL and a few other pro-abortion organizations are trying constantly to force med schools to make abortion training mandatory (as of right now it's considered an optional elective), ironically enough with the justification that abortion is one of the most common procedures done in the USA, therefore every doctor should know how to do one.

 

[UTChE96]

Truly sad what is happening in the US. Allowing the killing of a fully viable baby. If someone thinks that is ok then they are truly lost. Such people are the enablers of the greatest atrocities in human history because they are good little robots that never question the popular dogma of the day no matter how evil.

 

[Clean]

Democrat House legislators in Virginia have proposed legislation to allow abortions while the mother is having the baby.

That's legalizing murder. What's next for the Dems, you can kill them with no penalty up until they start grade school? This country is headed for the Dark Ages.

 

[bystander]

That's legalizing murder. What's next for the Dems, you can kill them with no penalty up until they start grade school? This country is headed for the Dark Ages.

It's an indication of the pathological obsession they have over their "bodies."

 

[bystander]

There are. I’ll look for em later. Just a fly thru checking on my friend bystander. Class starts (yes) now.

Ha... hey, I was just asking about your parameters on your beliefs. Not trying to put you on the spot. I think it's a very difficult matter to legislate.

 

[horninchicago]

There is one fix for all of this: Trump needs to come out in support of late term abortions.

 

[Clean]

There is one fix for all of this: Trump needs to come out in support of late term abortions.

The -50 wind chill in Chi-Town must have frozen your brain.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

No, no, no. If Trump did that, the lefty loonies would have no choice but to oppose him.

 

[horninchicago]

The -50 wind chill in Chi-Town must have frozen your brain.

No. As with everything else, if Trump supports this, the crazy Dems in NY and Virginia will oppose it. Problem solved.

 

[Clean]

No. As with everything else, if Trump supports this, the crazy Dems in NY and Virginia will oppose it. Problem solved.

Oh, I get it. Sorry.

 

[Joe Fan]

That's legalizing murder.....

Yet NY outlawed the death penalty
Inconsistent?

 

[ShAArk92]

Not trying to put you on the spot.

That’s OK ... there are several “non vested” places where this can be seen ... first one I found.

Doctors say abortions do sometimes save women's lives

and a couple of “vested” but still accurate.

Fact #8: Less than 1% of all abortions are performed to save the life of the mother. – AbortionFacts.com

If you’re really into crunching numbers ...
Reasons given for having abortions in the United States

So ... yeah, the VAST majority of abortions are performed because of convenience, not “medical necessity”

Had more time than yesterday, but still under the gun here. Sorry. But it’s important.

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

That’s OK ... there are several “non vested” places where this can be seen ... first one I found.

Doctors say abortions do sometimes save women's lives

and a couple of “vested” but still accurate.

Fact #8: Less than 1% of all abortions are performed to save the life of the mother. – AbortionFacts.com

If you’re really into crunching numbers ...
Reasons given for having abortions in the United States

So ... yeah, the VAST majority of abortions are performed because of convenience, not “medical necessity”

Had more time than yesterday, but still under the gun here. Sorry. But it’s important.

Boy was I off my guesstimate. Over 90% of abortions are performed out of convenience.

 

[Joe Fan]

The left is infected with moral rot
This guy, the Gov, is a pediatric neurologist, if you can believe it

 

[bystander]

Had more time than yesterday, but still under the gun here. Sorry. But it’s important.

You never have to apologize for a delayed response. I owe several people a response that may never happen because real life obligations get in the way. Then I forget where the conversation was.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Monahorns]

Northern VA is probably the most liberal area in the country. That is why the bill was written. But the rest of the state is very conservative. The problem is that the population of VA is concentrated in its NE corner and continues to grow.